Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!

[MrH42]

Yep. It's a killer deal.

It doesn't have active cruise control, but honestly, those systems really work well in stop and go traffic. If you have a manual, the best use case for it is kind of dead. It's kind of silly to put all the hardware in, and only be able to use it for following the car in front at highway speeds without a lot of speed changes.

It does have blind spot alerts, back up camera, and rear traffic alert. Those are simple, but nice to have things. S2000 has none of that. I'm used to driving top down, but in the rare situation I have the top up, backing up that thing is basically doing it blind. You can't see much of anything.

Yep, top up in 'verts is brutal. GR will obviously have a backup cam in it and has better visibility than any 'vert with the top up.

Do you think you'll miss the 'vert aspect? I do love a nice summer night or fall afternoon top down cruise, but it is kind of a bitch that it essentially disqualifies that car from ever going on track if you're tall.

I got rid of my NC miata and got a BRZ for more practicality. Then added a second daily a few years later. A few more years and I got rid of my 2013 BRZ because I had too much money in what was ultimately my "fun" car. I didn't put many miles on it, and wanted something more exciting, convertible, and cheaper, and landed on the S2000. Now it's appreciated up to the price of a new BRZ almost

Losing the convertible aspect is my biggest concern. Nothing beats top down driving in nice weather. Realistically though, how many of those days do I get a year now? Summer is unbearably humid for most of it. So it's really April, May, June, and September, October? So 5 months? And you get at least 10 days of rain during those months usually. Then you consider my commute when I do go into the office is stop-and-go on I-75 the whole way. Even on nice days, top down in the S2000 on the highway is awful. Just big rigs jake braking and blasting soot at me. It's so loud it's hard to even listen to a podcast with the top down.

Hell, even the hour trip to see my girlfriend's parents, we never take the S2000. It's really cramped, low, and loud. A new BRZ would get used a lot more.

Just makes more sense to upgrade to something 20 years newer, safer, and more usable if the money is almost a wash.

[D Griff]

Yep, top up in 'verts is brutal. GR will obviously have a backup cam in it and has better visibility than any 'vert with the top up.

Do you think you'll miss the 'vert aspect? I do love a nice summer night or fall afternoon top down cruise, but it is kind of a bitch that it essentially disqualifies that car from ever going on track if you're tall.

I got rid of my NC miata and got a BRZ for more practicality. Then added a second daily a few years later. A few more years and I got rid of my 2013 BRZ because I had too much money in what was ultimately my "fun" car. I didn't put many miles on it, and wanted something more exciting, convertible, and cheaper, and landed on the S2000. Now it's appreciated up to the price of a new BRZ almost

Losing the convertible aspect is my biggest concern. Nothing beats top down driving in nice weather. Realistically though, how many of those days do I get a year now? Summer is unbearably humid for most of it. So it's really April, May, June, and September, October? So 5 months? And you get at least 10 days of rain during those months usually. Then you consider my commute when I do go into the office is stop-and-go on I-75 the whole way. Even on nice days, top down in the S2000 on the highway is awful. Just big rigs jake braking and blasting soot at me. It's so loud it's hard to even listen to a podcast with the top down.

Hell, even the hour trip to see my girlfriend's parents, we never take the S2000. It's really cramped, low, and loud. A new BRZ would get used a lot more.

Just makes more sense to upgrade to something 20 years newer, safer, and more usable if the money is almost a wash.

I am definitely with you on the 20 years newer thing... owning an old car is great if you enjoy wrenching and/or have a lot of free time, but I only tolerate wrenching and have other hobbies to spend time on. Even if you're and pay a shop to address old car shit, it's time consuming. with shops is a pain in the ass.

So BRZ/86 are cool, they're basically a 944 but new.

[troyguitar]

If the BRZ had a god damn hatch like a 944 I would have found a way to keep mine - or rather, probably bought one in 2013 and still be driving it, looking to order a new one soon.

That tiny trunk opening just isn't acceptable.

[MrH42]

It's a very practical second car. It is not very practical as an only car.

Even on snow tires, I had some trouble with it in winter too. Didn't have enough traction on a lot of surfaces to get moving.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

If the BRZ had a god damn hatch like a 944 I would have found a way to keep mine - or rather, probably bought one in 2013 and still be driving it, looking to order a new one soon.

That tiny trunk opening just isn't acceptable.

I don't understand why hatches went away. They were all the rage in the 80's and made sports cars practical. I haven't met anyone that claims to NOT want one, so there must be another reason why they're not built anymore. I'm going to guess that it has something to do with rigidity.

[D Griff]

If the BRZ had a god damn hatch like a 944 I would have found a way to keep mine - or rather, probably bought one in 2013 and still be driving it, looking to order a new one soon.

That tiny trunk opening just isn't acceptable.

I don't understand why hatches went away. They were all the rage in the 80's and made sports cars practical. I haven't met anyone that claims to NOT want one, so there must be another reason why they're not built anymore. I'm going to guess that it has something to do with rigidity.

I would guess that it is due to people worshipping stats above all else. Being able to say 'it's 50% stiffer than last model' is probably more important to the manufacturers.



I just don't haul shit all that often though. Fuck

[MrH42]

If the BRZ had a god damn hatch like a 944 I would have found a way to keep mine - or rather, probably bought one in 2013 and still be driving it, looking to order a new one soon.

That tiny trunk opening just isn't acceptable.

I don't understand why hatches went away. They were all the rage in the 80's and made sports cars practical. I haven't met anyone that claims to NOT want one, so there must be another reason why they're not built anymore. I'm going to guess that it has something to do with rigidity.

Yep, that's exactly it. You got a lot of rigidity by connecting the sides of the body together with the frame that goes around the opening of the back seats going down. A hatch on an 86/BRZ would add a lot of weight and reduce rigidity for a small practicality improvement.

[troyguitar]

I don't understand why hatches went away. They were all the rage in the 80's and made sports cars practical. I haven't met anyone that claims to NOT want one, so there must be another reason why they're not built anymore. I'm going to guess that it has something to do with rigidity.

I would guess that it is due to people worshipping stats above all else. Being able to say 'it's 50% stiffer than last model' is probably more important to the manufacturers.



I just don't haul shit all that often though. Fuck

The only time I drive is to haul shit. Otherwise I walk or bike. Neither a cooler nor a guitar amp fit in the damn tiny trunk openings of the average coupe, you have to awkwardly wedge shit in and out through the doors, which is really fun with cars parked on both sides of you. I've owned 4 of them now and hated it every time... yet I keep considering another one because RWD hatches went away.

[Desertbreh]

Oversupply has me at peace with through AT LEAST the first part of 2021. Took my daughter to UCLA las weekend and moved her in, as an underclassman with no off campus jerb, she won't get a parking pass and wouldn't use her car if she did. I'm not getting rid of her E350, it's too cheap to own. I have a 2019 Tahoe Premier Plus arriving in 10 weeks, the old Tahoe goes south of the border. IF THINGS NORMALIZE, I will then consider replacing the BMW with a 400z or a C8. I will also test drive the forum/s new bukkake machine, the BRZ. I will also take a hard look at the new less flamboyant CTR, and a the Golf R with its soul crushing electronic interior. Until then, I also agree that you can keep your stiffness, the hatch on the sports car rules extremely hard.

[Desertbreh]

Oversupply has me at peace with through AT LEAST the first part of 2022. Took my daughter to UCLA las weekend and moved her in, as an underclassman with no off campus jerb, she won't get a parking pass and wouldn't use her car if she did. I'm not getting rid of her E350, it's too cheap to own. I have a 2019 Tahoe Premier Plus arriving in 10 weeks, the old Tahoe goes south of the border. IF THINGS NORMALIZE, I will then consider replacing the BMW with a 400z or a C8. I will also test drive the forum/s new bukkake machine, the BRZ. I will also take a hard look at the new less flamboyant CTR, and a the Golf R with its soul crushing electronic interior. Until then, I also agree that you can keep your stiffness, the hatch on the sports car rules extremely hard.

[wap]

If the BRZ had a god damn hatch like a 944 I would have found a way to keep mine - or rather, probably bought one in 2013 and still be driving it, looking to order a new one soon.

That tiny trunk opening just isn't acceptable.

That would be fantastic, like a new take on an 80's sports coupe.

[Desertbreh]

If the BRZ had a god damn hatch like a 944 I would have found a way to keep mine - or rather, probably bought one in 2013 and still be driving it, looking to order a new one soon.

That tiny trunk opening just isn't acceptable.

That would be fantastic, like a new take on an 80's sports coupe.

What would be fantastic is if Porsche just took the 944 Turbo, put a 400 hp low emissions engine and a 6 speed in it and some giant brakes and sold it new. Don't need to change anything else.*

*This message brought to you by

[ChrisoftheNorth]

That would be fantastic, like a new take on an 80's sports coupe.

What would be fantastic is if Porsche just took the 944 Turbo, put a 400 hp low emissions engine and a 6 speed in it and some giant brakes and sold it new. Don't need to change anything else.*

*This message brought to you by

I wouldn't be surprised if they made an EV similar to this at some point.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Oversupply has me at peace with through AT LEAST the first part of 2021. Took my daughter to UCLA las weekend and moved her in, as an underclassman with no off campus jerb, she won't get a parking pass and wouldn't use her car if she did. I'm not getting rid of her E350, it's too cheap to own. I have a 2019 Tahoe Premier Plus arriving in 10 weeks, the old Tahoe goes south of the border. IF THINGS NORMALIZE, I will then consider replacing the BMW with a 400z or a C8. I will also test drive the forum/s new bukkake machine, the BRZ. I will also take a hard look at the new less flamboyant CTR, and a the Golf R with its soul crushing electronic interior. Until then, I also agree that you can keep your stiffness, the hatch on the sports car rules extremely hard.

I've been looking for trucks, have given up for now I think.

[MrH42]

Oversupply has me at peace with through AT LEAST the first part of 2021. Took my daughter to UCLA las weekend and moved her in, as an underclassman with no off campus jerb, she won't get a parking pass and wouldn't use her car if she did. I'm not getting rid of her E350, it's too cheap to own. I have a 2019 Tahoe Premier Plus arriving in 10 weeks, the old Tahoe goes south of the border. IF THINGS NORMALIZE, I will then consider replacing the BMW with a 400z or a C8. I will also test drive the forum/s new bukkake machine, the BRZ. I will also take a hard look at the new less flamboyant CTR, and a the Golf R with its soul crushing electronic interior. Until then, I also agree that you can keep your stiffness, the hatch on the sports car rules extremely hard.

Yeah, drive the new bukkake machine. That's the biggset issue I have with a lot of these high power cars. I drive them back to back with a miata or 86, and they are usually less fun. Twice the speed, the half as engaging. The only car I've driven that not only was substantially faster, but also way more fun was a GT3.

[Desertbreh]

Oversupply has me at peace with through AT LEAST the first part of 2021. Took my daughter to UCLA las weekend and moved her in, as an underclassman with no off campus jerb, she won't get a parking pass and wouldn't use her car if she did. I'm not getting rid of her E350, it's too cheap to own. I have a 2019 Tahoe Premier Plus arriving in 10 weeks, the old Tahoe goes south of the border. IF THINGS NORMALIZE, I will then consider replacing the BMW with a 400z or a C8. I will also test drive the forum/s new bukkake machine, the BRZ. I will also take a hard look at the new less flamboyant CTR, and a the Golf R with its soul crushing electronic interior. Until then, I also agree that you can keep your stiffness, the hatch on the sports car rules extremely hard.

I've been looking for trucks, have given up for now I think.

It is my car dealer buddy's current rig, he is replacing it with an X5M. It is everything that's wrong with America in one huge package. 22 inch ramz, 84 charging ports, pretty much every option. It gets me the 6.2 and ten speed without the RST circle jerk ramz though. That engine is actually rated better on the highway than the 5.3 by 1mpg because 10 speed. Also only 1 worse in town.

[troyguitar]

Meanwhile my thinking at the moment is that, if I had to buy something soon, I would be looking at an 08+ Rabbit/Golf 2.5+6AT or a 2011+ Scion tC 2.5+6AT. Either one in white with cloth interior.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I've been looking for trucks, have given up for now I think.

It is my car dealer buddy's current rig, he is replacing it with an X5M. It is everything that's wrong with America in one huge package. 22 inch ramz, 84 charging ports, pretty much every option. It gets me the 6.2 and ten speed without the RST circle jerk ramz though. That engine is actually rated better on the highway than the 5.3 by 1mpg because 10 speed. Also only 1 worse in town.

I honestly don't understand the transmission pairing with GM products. More power doesn't need more gears, less power does. 6.2+10 speed is an odd thing to me. I drove a few 6.2 10 speed Silverados back when I worked at GM and they were rather meh. But the power is

Bring back the powerglide for 450+hp IMO.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Meanwhile my thinking at the moment is that, if I had to buy something soon, I would be looking at an 08+ Rabbit/Golf 2.5+6AT or a 2011+ Scion tC 2.5+6AT. Either one in white with cloth interior.

Man, I really liked my 06 tC. The hatch swallowed so much stuff, it was That was a great car, I always thought the 2nd gens in 2011+ were quite

[Desertbreh]

It is my car dealer buddy's current rig, he is replacing it with an X5M. It is everything that's wrong with America in one huge package. 22 inch ramz, 84 charging ports, pretty much every option. It gets me the 6.2 and ten speed without the RST circle jerk ramz though. That engine is actually rated better on the highway than the 5.3 by 1mpg because 10 speed. Also only 1 worse in town.

I honestly don't understand the transmission pairing with GM products. More power doesn't need more gears, less power does. 6.2+10 speed is an odd thing to me. I drove a few 6.2 10 speed Silverados back when I worked at GM and they were rather meh. But the power is

Bring back the powerglide for 450+hp IMO.

[troyguitar]

Meanwhile my thinking at the moment is that, if I had to buy something soon, I would be looking at an 08+ Rabbit/Golf 2.5+6AT or a 2011+ Scion tC 2.5+6AT. Either one in white with cloth interior.

Man, I really liked my 06 tC. The hatch swallowed so much stuff, it was That was a great car, I always thought the 2nd gens in 2011+ were quite

2nd gen gets a 6 speed and 180 hp, basically the same specs as a Golf 2.5 all around. (or a crosstrek...)

Not great but maybe one could find a non-trashed example for a reasonable price, especially since nobody wants a 2-door.

[MrH42]

It is my car dealer buddy's current rig, he is replacing it with an X5M. It is everything that's wrong with America in one huge package. 22 inch ramz, 84 charging ports, pretty much every option. It gets me the 6.2 and ten speed without the RST circle jerk ramz though. That engine is actually rated better on the highway than the 5.3 by 1mpg because 10 speed. Also only 1 worse in town.

I honestly don't understand the transmission pairing with GM products. More power doesn't need more gears, less power does. 6.2+10 speed is an odd thing to me. I drove a few 6.2 10 speed Silverados back when I worked at GM and they were rather meh. But the power is

Bring back the powerglide for 450+hp IMO.

More power allows for more exploitation of gearing to get better mileage.

If the driver is demanding 80% of the power available with the 5.3, it doesn't matter if you have a 10 speed or 6 speed really. It's going to be working in that max power area of the rev range. But that same ask of the 6.2 might only be asking for 60% of available power. With the 10-speed, you've got multiple ways you can deliver that, and can pick the one that delivers the best fuel economy.

Basically, there's more ways to extract fuel economy when you've got more power on tap. So it's worth the investment on the 6.2 to give it a more expensive transmission. You probably see less of a fuel economy bump giving the 5.3 the 10-speed vs giving the 6.2 the 10-speed.

[Desertbreh]

I honestly don't understand the transmission pairing with GM products. More power doesn't need more gears, less power does. 6.2+10 speed is an odd thing to me. I drove a few 6.2 10 speed Silverados back when I worked at GM and they were rather meh. But the power is

Bring back the powerglide for 450+hp IMO.

More power allows for more exploitation of gearing to get better mileage.

If the driver is demanding 80% of the power available with the 5.3, it doesn't matter if you have a 10 speed or 6 speed really. It's going to be working in that max power area of the rev range. But that same ask of the 6.2 might only be asking for 60% of available power. With the 10-speed, you've got multiple ways you can deliver that, and can pick the one that delivers the best fuel economy.

Basically, there's more ways to extract fuel economy when you've got more power on tap. So it's worth the investment on the 6.2 to give it a more expensive transmission. You probably see less of a fuel economy bump giving the 5.3 the 10-speed vs giving the 6.2 the 10-speed.

Everybody gets the 10 speed in the new IRS Tahoes.

[Johnny_P]

Tesla just installed a supercharger next to the refinery I used to work at. Wouldn’t be a big deal to charge up there, it’s only 15 mins from my house.

Too bad I had no clue. Should have bought a model Y.

[troyguitar]

They're probably impossible to find, but I wonder how terrible the first gen Mazda6 V6 would be... It came as both a wagon and a hatchback with like 220 hp. IIRC the was not geared great, but there was a 6AT that might be better.