Is the issue entirely .... now if it was faster or as fast as a corvette while providing you with epic reliability and usability ...
2020 Supra-Why I think it is half assed.
- ChrisoftheNorth
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Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
Well... it provides C5 levels of performance With probably less reliability than a C5 and similar usability - less scrape but also less room.
I would take one over a C5 and maybe a C6, but not a C7... it prices weren't a factor.
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Which is why this thing is a failure IMO. It matches a 1993 model.... when the 1993 model was better than every car short of super/ultra cars other than the top dog ZL1 vette etc.
Fraud did the exact same thing, they brought out a Marauder and faced it against a 1993-1996 Chevy SS. And it was an epic failure... since it barely matched/bettered the 10 year old GM car.
Now Toyota did this in 2019, not only that but they didn't even come up with their own engine/powertrain literally throwing away their biggest competitive advantage.
BMW has sold similar cars since the M235i although a lot less attractive looking.
It would be a tough call if I was actually cross shopping an M240i versus this... I mean, the Supra would be cooler and probably more fun to drive, looks more interesting, better resale. But M240i is actually a good daily. I guess used M235i for $20K probably wins.max225 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:31 pmWhich is why this thing is a failure IMO. It matches a 1993 model.... when the 1993 model was better than every car short of super/ultra cars other than the top dog ZL1 vette etc.
Fraud did the exact same thing, they brought out a Marauder and faced it against a 1993-1996 Chevy SS. And it was an epic failure... since it barely matched/bettered the 10 year old GM car.
Now Toyota did this in 2019, not only that but they didn't even come up with their own engine/powertrain literally throwing away their biggest competitive advantage.
BMW has sold similar cars since the M235i although a lot less attractive looking.
- max225
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I'd wait to see if the Supra is actually better to drive. So far it seems essentially on par on paper... at least. Time will tell.D Griff wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:41 pmIt would be a tough call if I was actually cross shopping an M240i versus this... I mean, the Supra would be cooler and probably more fun to drive, looks more interesting, better resale. But M240i is actually a good daily. I guess used M235i for $20K probably wins.max225 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:31 pm
Which is why this thing is a failure IMO. It matches a 1993 model.... when the 1993 model was better than every car short of super/ultra cars other than the top dog ZL1 vette etc.
Fraud did the exact same thing, they brought out a Marauder and faced it against a 1993-1996 Chevy SS. And it was an epic failure... since it barely matched/bettered the 10 year old GM car.
Now Toyota did this in 2019, not only that but they didn't even come up with their own engine/powertrain literally throwing away their biggest competitive advantage.
BMW has sold similar cars since the M235i although a lot less attractive looking.
No arguing about the looks. The 2 series is pretty bad looking in most trims outside of the M2/M2CS
I agree, it's meh. 1 and 3 are better, IMO. I find my Kamry is quite attractive.max225 wrote:I'd wait to see if the Supra is actually better to drive. So far it seems essentially on par on paper... at least. Time will tell.D Griff wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:41 pm It would be a tough call if I was actually cross shopping an M240i versus this... I mean, the Supra would be cooler and probably more fun to drive, looks more interesting, better resale. But M240i is actually a good daily. I guess used M235i for $20K probably wins.
No arguing about the looks. The 2 series is pretty bad looking in most trims outside of the M2/M2CS
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3 looks decent. 2 doesn’t... so yep.D Griff wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:30 pmI agree, it's meh. 1 and 3 are better, IMO. I find my Kamry is quite attractive.max225 wrote: I'd wait to see if the Supra is actually better to drive. So far it seems essentially on par on paper... at least. Time will tell.
No arguing about the looks. The 2 series is pretty bad looking in most trims outside of the M2/M2CS
Well, reviews are here and it's great as expected. I love it. Just don't like the price and lack of
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a2 ... e-numbers/
https://jalopnik.com/the-2020-toyota-su ... 1834624543
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a2 ... e-numbers/
https://jalopnik.com/the-2020-toyota-su ... 1834624543
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Seriously. other than the "brand" ( SUPRA I OWE YOU A 10 SECOND CAR SUPRA OVERNIGHT PARTS FROM JAPAN SUPRA )
An M2 makes way more sense.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
To be fair, it competes more with the regular M240i. An M2C starts at $59k while the supra starts at $49k with one option package to take it to $54k.
An M240i with a is less plus the you could probably get a on one. Same engine although Toyota supposedly tuned the B58 used in the Supra.
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5k-8k sets these apart... BMW also comes with 3 years of maintenance.Gberg2119 wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 12:04 pmTo be fair, it competes more with the regular M240i. An M2C starts at $59k while the supra starts at $49k with one option package to take it to $54k.
An M240i with a is less plus the you could probably get a on one. Same engine although Toyota supposedly tuned the B58 used in the Supra.
You could get a manual on the M2 if you wanted... DCT vs 8at.
It has 50 more wheel HP. It has a far stronger aftermarket and support network.
It has a better brand
M2 has a back seat.
They are too close in price, unless Toyota puts 5-10k on the hood, then this thing becomes more comparable.
Oh I know it's a bad buy and the BMW's are a much better value but I still love the way the supra looks.max225 wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 12:55 pm5k-8k sets these apart... BMW also comes with 3 years of maintenance.Gberg2119 wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 12:04 pm
To be fair, it competes more with the regular M240i. An M2C starts at $59k while the supra starts at $49k with one option package to take it to $54k.
An M240i with a is less plus the you could probably get a on one. Same engine although Toyota supposedly tuned the B58 used in the Supra.
You could get a manual on the M2 if you wanted... DCT vs 8at.
It has 50 more wheel HP. It has a far stronger aftermarket and support network.
It has a better brand
M2 has a back seat.
They are too close in price, unless Toyota puts 5-10k on the hood, then this thing becomes more comparable.
I can't wait to see the mark-ups when the first supras hit the lots.
I'd agree but everything worth a shit is $40-80k. I think the price point is right where it should be. The review was well done and thorough. He even mentioned its cheaper than what it was in the 90s. I also get the booting of the Everyone is doing it. Maybe it will come back in a year with one. Sadly no one will buy a manual model in an already limited volume car.Gberg2119 wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:15 am Well, reviews are here and it's great as expected. I love it. Just don't like the price and lack of
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a2 ... e-numbers/
https://jalopnik.com/the-2020-toyota-su ... 1834624543
"The M2 Competition starts at $58,900, so expect BMW to charge a significant premium for the CS model"
msrp to msrp the supra looks to be about $8k less. So call its $10k less than a CS. $10k is a lot of money if you budget is a $50k car.
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inflation over 2 years is NOT $6k....
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You're forgetting that it got a completely different motor with 50 more whp. Also supra "starts" at 49.9 but I think the comparable model is the premium... one what does that get you ? All M cars come fully loaded.
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I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the first few get marked up close to 6 figures.Gberg2119 wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 1:16 pmOh I know it's a bad buy and the BMW's are a much better value but I still love the way the supra looks.max225 wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 12:55 pm
5k-8k sets these apart... BMW also comes with 3 years of maintenance.
You could get a manual on the M2 if you wanted... DCT vs 8at.
It has 50 more wheel HP. It has a far stronger aftermarket and support network.
It has a better brand
M2 has a back seat.
They are too close in price, unless Toyota puts 5-10k on the hood, then this thing becomes more comparable.
I can't wait to see the mark-ups when the first supras hit the lots.
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Depends on their sales targets. If they want to move 3-5k units annually they won't discount. If they want to move 5-10k they need to put at least 5k on the hood to make it more competitive.Huckleberry wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 1:47 pmI wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the first few get marked up close to 6 figures.
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Doubt it'll be that high, but markup is guaranteed for at least a few months. I wonder what the production figures look like? If they keep volume low, these things could command above MSRP for a little while.Huckleberry wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 1:47 pmI wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the first few get marked up close to 6 figures.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
It's certainly possible. Weren't sleazy dealers asking close to $100k on early GT 350's?Huckleberry wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 1:47 pmI wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the first few get marked up close to 6 figures.
Toyota hasn't had a legitimate performance car in what? 2 decades? These will have no idea what to do, just like Honda and the Hype R. Can't wait for the first video of them beating the shit out of the car fresh off the truck.
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Ohhhh, there will be great material coming in I am sure.Gberg2119 wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 2:05 pmIt's certainly possible. Weren't sleazy dealers asking close to $100k on early GT 350's?Huckleberry wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 1:47 pm
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the first few get marked up close to 6 figures.
Toyota hasn't had a legitimate performance car in what? 2 decades? These will have no idea what to do, just like Honda and the Hype R. Can't wait for the first video of them beating the shit out of the car fresh off the truck.
I have no idea why people are so hellbent on buying the first car or whatever. Between brand new car issues, games, markup, and high likelihood of being beaten on, there's zero reason to really want one of the first.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.