Car Talk 4: The Richard Hertz Rent-A-Car 500

[Johnny_P]

I wouldn't buy a 1st year Ford but yeah that looks pretty great. IFS and solid rear on a short wheelbase removable rear shell and /2.3T combo would be pretty friggin rad. Shoot for 4Runner buyers.

I think if there's an SUV that could pull it off, outside the Wrongler, it's this.

[max225]

4 Runner big success limited investment
Wrongler HUGE success major investment
Bronco... TBD seems like the only new model fraud is working on, they see the giant market opportunity

I feel like it may go the way of fj cruiser... it'll come out right when cars will decrease...

[Johnny_P]

4 Runner big success limited investment
Wrongler HUGE success major investment
Bronco... TBD seems like the only new model fraud is working on, they see the giant market opportunity

I feel like it may go the way of fj cruiser... it'll come out right when cars will decrease...

I have no idea what Fraud is up to, I dumped that stock so long ago because that company lacked any foresight under their current leadership.

Stopping production of small cars was a good call though. Pointless sales.

[max225]

4 Runner big success limited investment
Wrongler HUGE success major investment
Bronco... TBD seems like the only new model fraud is working on, they see the giant market opportunity

I feel like it may go the way of fj cruiser... it'll come out right when cars will decrease...

I have no idea what Fraud is up to, I dumped that stock so long ago because that company lacked any foresight under their current leadership.

Stopping production of small cars was a good call though. Pointless sales.

Pointless cars because they were not competitive. The focus needed major capex, as did the fiesta and mondeo/fusion etc.. They cut it to just make their balance sheet look good short term. I don't see what these guys are doing period, long term plan is autonamous + electric, but I haven't seen anything from them.. they look to be just setting money on fire with that.

[Johnny_P]

I have no idea what Fraud is up to, I dumped that stock so long ago because that company lacked any foresight under their current leadership.

Stopping production of small cars was a good call though. Pointless sales.

Pointless cars because they were not competitive. The focus needed major capex, as did the fiesta and mondeo/fusion etc.. They cut it to just make their balance sheet look good short term. I don't see what these guys are doing period, long term plan is autonamous + electric, but I haven't seen anything from them.. they look to be just setting money on fire with that.

Well they could make more money on SUVs and they were hardly breaking even on cars... Would have taken huge capital to gain only a little bit vs gaining more by updating their SUV lineup. Exploder is new, Escape is new, Ecosport is newish, new Bronco and new baby Bronco coming.

[max225]

Pointless cars because they were not competitive. The focus needed major capex, as did the fiesta and mondeo/fusion etc.. They cut it to just make their balance sheet look good short term. I don't see what these guys are doing period, long term plan is autonamous + electric, but I haven't seen anything from them.. they look to be just setting money on fire with that.

Well they could make more money on SUVs and they were hardly breaking even on cars... Would have taken huge capital to gain only a little bit vs gaining more by updating their SUV lineup. Exploder is new, Escape is new, Ecosport is newish, new Bronco and new baby Bronco coming.

I feel like their lineup is the worst in modern history. The "new" shit is barely an update from old. The lincolns are getting a bit better fraud is just terribad.
Every single product is half assed and a 5-decade old.

[MexicanYarisTK]

Well they could make more money on SUVs and they were hardly breaking even on cars... Would have taken huge capital to gain only a little bit vs gaining more by updating their SUV lineup. Exploder is new, Escape is new, Ecosport is newish, new Bronco and new baby Bronco coming.

I feel like their lineup is the worst in modern history. The "new" shit is barely an update from old. The lincolns are getting a bit better fraud is just terribad.
Every single product is half assed and a 5-decade old.

it almost seems like the only changes that happened to Explorer's and Excapes for the past 7-8 years is the face lift. Other than switching to a 10 speed, theres really not much that hasn't changed.
Chebby on other hand is marginally better, the new blazer is as it looks like another crossover.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Well they could make more money on SUVs and they were hardly breaking even on cars... Would have taken huge capital to gain only a little bit vs gaining more by updating their SUV lineup. Exploder is new, Escape is new, Ecosport is newish, new Bronco and new baby Bronco coming.

I feel like their lineup is the worst in modern history. The "new" shit is barely an update from old. The lincolns are getting a bit better fraud is just terribad.
Every single product is half assed and a 5-decade old.

Ehhhh the new Explorer is completely new. It's on a new RWD platform, outside and inside completely new, etc. They spent serious bucks on that thing.

Then the Aviator is 100% different (other than basic platform and powertrains) from the Explorer. Major money spent there as well. I bet all-in, they spent $5B on the entire Explorer and Aviator programs.

Too bad Ford can't produce them...

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ ... 292795001/

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ ... 830654002/

[max225]

I feel like their lineup is the worst in modern history. The "new" shit is barely an update from old. The lincolns are getting a bit better fraud is just terribad.
Every single product is half assed and a 5-decade old.

Ehhhh the new Explorer is completely new. It's on a new RWD platform, outside and inside completely new, etc. They spent serious bucks on that thing.

Then the Aviator is 100% different (other than basic platform and powertrains) from the Explorer. Major money spent there as well. I bet all-in, they spent $5B on the entire Explorer and Aviator programs.

Too bad Ford can't produce them...

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ ... 292795001/

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ ... 830654002/

2020 Explorer is all new ?
It looks like they stuffed their other corp motors into it and threw on the ugliest vertical ipad thing into the dash.



The chassis/dimensions seem the same. So this looks more like a midcycle refresh than anything.



I suppose it is somewhat comparable with the Wrongler redesign... but this seems smaller somehow..

[MexicanYarisTK]

I feel like their lineup is the worst in modern history. The "new" shit is barely an update from old. The lincolns are getting a bit better fraud is just terribad.
Every single product is half assed and a 5-decade old.

Ehhhh the new Explorer is completely new. It's on a new RWD platform, outside and inside completely new, etc. They spent serious bucks on that thing.

Then the Aviator is 100% different (other than basic platform and powertrains) from the Explorer. Major money spent there as well. I bet all-in, they spent $5B on the entire Explorer and Aviator programs.

Too bad Ford can't produce them...

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ ... 292795001/

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ ... 830654002/

I also saw an Explorer ST the other day, possible sport replacement?

[MexicanYarisTK]

Ehhhh the new Explorer is completely new. It's on a new RWD platform, outside and inside completely new, etc. They spent serious bucks on that thing.

Then the Aviator is 100% different (other than basic platform and powertrains) from the Explorer. Major money spent there as well. I bet all-in, they spent $5B on the entire Explorer and Aviator programs.

Too bad Ford can't produce them...

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ ... 292795001/

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ ... 830654002/

2020 Explorer is all new ?
It looks like they stuffed their other corp motors into it and threw on the ugliest vertical ipad thing into the dash.



The chassis/dimensions seem the same. So this looks more like a midcycle refresh than anything.



I suppose it is somewhat comparable with the Wrongler redesign... but this seems smaller somehow..

I think also the same for f10 5 series to g30.

[max225]

400hp ST model seems but there is no way in hell it reach those EPA MPG figures...
18/24 with AWD and 400hp and 5000lbs... NO FKING way.

[max225]

we're at the second highest recorded gas prices ever. At this level in 2008 people were paying 5k over sticker for a prius... today...

[MexicanYarisTK]

400hp ST model seems but there is no way in hell it reach those EPA MPG figures...
18/24 with AWD and 400hp and 5000lbs... NO FKING way.

my dad's 2016 Explorer Sport is 360 hp, with the same engine, but 6 speed. So this has a substantial improvement with most likely it's 10 speed trans. I borrowed it once for a business trip from DC to Orlando to keep the miles off the yarii, and it reached probably 22 at best, and that's behind a semi for doing around 80.

[max225]

400hp ST model seems but there is no way in hell it reach those EPA MPG figures...
18/24 with AWD and 400hp and 5000lbs... NO FKING way.

my dad's 2016 Explorer Sport is 360 hp, with the same engine, but 6 speed. So this has a substantial improvement with most likely it's 10 speed trans. I borrowed it once for a business trip from DC to Orlando to keep the miles off the yarii, and it reached probably 22 at best, and that's behind a semi for doing around 80.

There is only so low you can keep the gears. I am sure the 6 speed was already capable of that. The 10 speed will offer no MPG improvement in the real world imo.

I averaged 21-21.5 in a MUSTANG that is 1/2 of the explorer and that powertrain.

[MexicanYarisTK]

my dad's 2016 Explorer Sport is 360 hp, with the same engine, but 6 speed. So this has a substantial improvement with most likely it's 10 speed trans. I borrowed it once for a business trip from DC to Orlando to keep the miles off the yarii, and it reached probably 22 at best, and that's behind a semi for doing around 80.

There is only so low you can keep the gears. I am sure the 6 speed was already capable of that. The 10 speed will offer no MPG improvement in the real world imo.

I averaged 21-21.5 in a MUSTANG that is 1/2 of the explorer and that powertrain.

actually i'm on powertrain differences. Explorer Sport uses 3.5 v6 TT, the ST uses 4.0 TT. Also for the outgoing gen, 3.5TT also used for platinum model.

Also check what C&D said

2020 Ford Explorer ST

VEHICLE TYPE
front-engine, all-wheel-drive, 6-passenger, 4-door hatchback

PRICE AS TESTED
$62,020 (base price: $55,835)

[max225]

There is only so low you can keep the gears. I am sure the 6 speed was already capable of that. The 10 speed will offer no MPG improvement in the real world imo.

I averaged 21-21.5 in a MUSTANG that is 1/2 of the explorer and that powertrain.

actually i'm on powertrain differences. Explorer Sport uses 3.5 v6 TT, the ST uses 4.0 TT. Also for the outgoing gen, 3.5TT also used for platinum model.

Also check what C&D said

2020 Ford Explorer ST

VEHICLE TYPE
front-engine, all-wheel-drive, 6-passenger, 4-door hatchback

PRICE AS TESTED
$62,020 (base price: $55,835)

It’s actually a 3.0T smaller displacement than prior and more boosta

[coogles]

$62k for a Ford Explorer...jeebus. Makes me feel a lot better about spending $34.4k on the Atlas.

[max225]

$62k for a Ford Explorer...jeebus. Makes me feel a lot better about spending $34.4k on the Atlas.

62k is nuts .... why not raptor at that point

[Apex]

$62k for a Ford Explorer...jeebus. Makes me feel a lot better about spending $34.4k on the Atlas.

62k is nuts .... why not raptor at that point

Because trucks are stupid.

[D Griff]

62k is nuts .... why not raptor at that point

Because trucks are stupid.

ut the 'sploder is also kinda stupid.

[D Griff]

Ehhhh the new Explorer is completely new. It's on a new RWD platform, outside and inside completely new, etc. They spent serious bucks on that thing.

Then the Aviator is 100% different (other than basic platform and powertrains) from the Explorer. Major money spent there as well. I bet all-in, they spent $5B on the entire Explorer and Aviator programs.

Too bad Ford can't produce them...

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ ... 292795001/

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ ... 830654002/

2020 Explorer is all new ?
It looks like they stuffed their other corp motors into it and threw on the ugliest vertical ipad thing into the dash.



The chassis/dimensions seem the same. So this looks more like a midcycle refresh than anything.



I suppose it is somewhat comparable with the Wrongler redesign... but this seems smaller somehow..

Yeah man, FWD to RWD and everything.

[max225]

So is the engine longitudinal now vs transverse? I wonder who the target demo is on the explorer. This vs the Telluride would be a tough comparo since the explorer looks to have moved way up market in terms of pricing.

[MexicanYarisTK]

So is the engine longitudinal now vs transverse? I wonder who the target demo is on the explorer. This vs the Telluride would be a tough comparo since the explorer looks to have moved way up market in terms of pricing.

looks like it, and it's actually
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ ... 480821001/

Based on what coggles said on his test drive on telluride, it drives like a big car and a super non communicative light steering. Explorer steering actually does have some weight to it and fine to maneuver with one hand style, drives like a midsize sedan.

[max225]

62k is nuts .... why not raptor at that point

Because trucks are stupid.

are gods answer to all of our transportation needs.