DFD

IMO the getting more progressive with age thing is just what happens when you actually get education and travel and live/work among different people.

Some folks stay in their bubbles and build fences/walls instead, those are the ones who get less progressive with age.

troyguitar wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:12 pm IMO the getting more progressive with age thing is just what happens when you actually get education and travel and live/work among different people.

Some folks stay in their bubbles and build fences/walls instead, those are the ones who get less progressive with age.

although it seems like as many build a bit of wealth, they get more and more concerned with keeping all of that for themselves. I personally grew up in a way lower financial class than I am now, so maybe my perspective is a bit different. I don't mind having a larger tax burden all that much.

Desertbreh wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:53 pm

MexicanYarisTK wrote: ↑Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:33 pm

also theres a perfectly good reason why people are hesitant to go to weddings, its because of people like them. Also why zilhuge had been as well. People will have to learn one way or another.

There are 20 other solid reasons not to go to weddings other than avoiding the VID.

Dude For real, Ive been to some weddings that I barely remember (not the kind) to people which aren’t even friends to begin with, but rather than being related to one of the attendees. They can be fun (especially free food and booze on their expense), but definitely NOT worth traveling across the country for it, let alone using a vacay day off solely for it too. At that point I rather use my 3-4 day vacay in Cancun and the like, which spending money for a flight and hotel is more worth it.

D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:40 pm

troyguitar wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:12 pm IMO the getting more progressive with age thing is just what happens when you actually get education and travel and live/work among different people.

Some folks stay in their bubbles and build fences/walls instead, those are the ones who get less progressive with age.

although it seems like as many build a bit of wealth, they get more and more concerned with keeping all of that for themselves. I personally grew up in a way lower financial class than I am now, so maybe my perspective is a bit different. I don't mind having a larger tax burden all that much.

I agree with this (your financial class progression mirrors mine), and what said above about getting educated and traveling outside the country, and I'll add that there's another component to this, and that is empathy. If you're taught from a young age to care about others, and that you're part of a larger interconnected community, you tend to be more progressive throughout life as opposed to those in your example who just build wealth for themselves and are about paying taxes that just benefit "those people", etc.

wap wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:07 pm

D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:40 pm

although it seems like as many build a bit of wealth, they get more and more concerned with keeping all of that for themselves. I personally grew up in a way lower financial class than I am now, so maybe my perspective is a bit different. I don't mind having a larger tax burden all that much.

I agree with this (your financial class progression mirrors mine), and what said above about getting educated and traveling outside the country, and I'll add that there's another component to this, and that is empathy. If you're taught from a young age to care about others, and that you're part of a larger interconnected community, you tend to be more progressive throughout life as opposed to those in your example who just build wealth for themselves and are about paying taxes that just benefit "those people", etc.

Like coogs, I was born and raised catholic, alter server, confirmed, all of it. Hell, even got married in the Catholic church.

What I find ironic is the basic teachings of the church around love, acceptance and empathy are what ultimately made me realize that the church is a two faced crock of shit. Taking those basic good human principles, then leaving my bubble and experiencing other ways of life exposed how crappy the church is and how much selfish tunnel vision most of the country has when it comes to others and empathy.

I've developed what I guess I'd call conditional empathy. Maybe an oxymoron, but I want to help others that want to help themselves. People with their heads buried in the sand looking out for only themselves should have only themselves to depend on. That includes anti vaxxers. Sorry not sorry.

Detroit wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:47 am

wap wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:07 pm

I agree with this (your financial class progression mirrors mine), and what said above about getting educated and traveling outside the country, and I'll add that there's another component to this, and that is empathy. If you're taught from a young age to care about others, and that you're part of a larger interconnected community, you tend to be more progressive throughout life as opposed to those in your example who just build wealth for themselves and are about paying taxes that just benefit "those people", etc.

Like coogs, I was born and raised catholic, alter server, confirmed, all of it. Hell, even got married in the Catholic church.

What I find ironic is the basic teachings of the church around love, acceptance and empathy are what ultimately made me realize that the church is a two faced crock of shit. Taking those basic good human principles, then leaving my bubble and experiencing other ways of life exposed how crappy the church is and how much selfish tunnel vision most of the country has when it comes to others and empathy.

I've developed what I guess I'd call conditional empathy. Maybe an oxymoron, but I want to help others that want to help themselves. People with their heads buried in the sand looking out for only themselves should have only themselves to depend on. That includes anti vaxxers. Sorry not sorry.

Without getting into the whole church/religion = bad thing, the bolded is VERY dependent on the individual church.

That said, I do find it amusing when people, claiming to be Christian, pass judgement onto others for whatever various reason.

Like bruh, you’re just gonna ignore one of the pillars of Christianity while proclaiming how important God is in your life.

Detroit wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:47 am Like coogs, I was born and raised catholic, alter server, confirmed, all of it. Hell, even got married in the Catholic church.

What I find ironic is the basic teachings of the church around love, acceptance and empathy are what ultimately made me realize that the church is a two faced crock of shit. Taking those basic good human principles, then leaving my bubble and experiencing other ways of life exposed how crappy the church is and how much selfish tunnel vision most of the country has when it comes to others and empathy.

I've developed what I guess I'd call conditional empathy. Maybe an oxymoron, but I want to help others that want to help themselves. People with their heads buried in the sand looking out for only themselves should have only themselves to depend on. That includes anti vaxxers. Sorry not sorry.

I have utmost respect for that opinion, and I know a lot of people in this country share it. It makes me sad, though, knowing that Christianity has in many ways been twisted into this way to separate believers from non-believers, the faithful from the unfaithful, the "clean" versus the "unclean", and basically a way to separate from and look down upon others. The obsession with homosexuality and "traditional" marriage being the key example. I'm no Biblical scholar, but there are examples all throughout the new testament of Jesus having fellowship with classes of people who back then would have been considered "undesirables". The church I was raised in was built in the late 1800s in the middle of farm fields, but the city grew around it and today it's a basically 100% black, very poor neighborhood. The church has done frankly an unbelievable amount of charitable work to rehab and build safe, livable homes in the neighborhood, provide programming for neighborhood kids, food drives and clothing and toy donations, and on and on. It tries really hard to benefit the community around it even though the church is almost exclusively suburban white folks. It's not trying to shut non-Christians out, it welcomes them in with open arms. It's generous and loving. That's the church I know. And when I see it manifested another way on cable news it blows my mind, because that's not at all what I've ever experienced. But I know it's out there and that the church I came to know is probably the outlier, not the other way around.

Detroit wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:47 am

wap wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:07 pm

I agree with this (your financial class progression mirrors mine), and what said above about getting educated and traveling outside the country, and I'll add that there's another component to this, and that is empathy. If you're taught from a young age to care about others, and that you're part of a larger interconnected community, you tend to be more progressive throughout life as opposed to those in your example who just build wealth for themselves and are about paying taxes that just benefit "those people", etc.

Like coogs, I was born and raised catholic, alter server, confirmed, all of it. Hell, even got married in the Catholic church.

What I find ironic is the basic teachings of the church around love, acceptance and empathy are what ultimately made me realize that the church is a two faced crock of shit. Taking those basic good human principles, then leaving my bubble and experiencing other ways of life exposed how crappy the church is and how much selfish tunnel vision most of the country has when it comes to others and empathy.

I've developed what I guess I'd call conditional empathy. Maybe an oxymoron, but I want to help others that want to help themselves. People with their heads buried in the sand looking out for only themselves should have only themselves to depend on. That includes anti vaxxers. Sorry not sorry.

I maintain (and I think you'd agree with this), that empathy can and often does exist for a person outside of any religious affinity or affiliation. In other words, no church has a monopoly on teaching and practicing empathy. Oftentimes, I find freaks to be some of the most 2-faced fakes when it comes to true empathy, using the bible as an excuse for their selfish, uncaring behavior.

I agree with the bolded.

4zilch wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:10 am

Detroit wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:47 am
Like coogs, I was born and raised catholic, alter server, confirmed, all of it. Hell, even got married in the Catholic church.

What I find ironic is the basic teachings of the church around love, acceptance and empathy are what ultimately made me realize that the church is a two faced crock of shit. Taking those basic good human principles, then leaving my bubble and experiencing other ways of life exposed how crappy the church is and how much selfish tunnel vision most of the country has when it comes to others and empathy.

I've developed what I guess I'd call conditional empathy. Maybe an oxymoron, but I want to help others that want to help themselves. People with their heads buried in the sand looking out for only themselves should have only themselves to depend on. That includes anti vaxxers. Sorry not sorry.

Without getting into the whole church/religion = bad thing, the bolded is VERY dependent on the individual church.

That said, I do find it amusing when people, claiming to be Christian, pass judgement onto others for whatever various reason.

Like bruh, you’re just gonna ignore one of the pillars of Christianity while proclaiming how important God is in your life.

wap wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:40 am

Detroit wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:47 am
Like coogs, I was born and raised catholic, alter server, confirmed, all of it. Hell, even got married in the Catholic church.

What I find ironic is the basic teachings of the church around love, acceptance and empathy are what ultimately made me realize that the church is a two faced crock of shit. Taking those basic good human principles, then leaving my bubble and experiencing other ways of life exposed how crappy the church is and how much selfish tunnel vision most of the country has when it comes to others and empathy.

I've developed what I guess I'd call conditional empathy. Maybe an oxymoron, but I want to help others that want to help themselves. People with their heads buried in the sand looking out for only themselves should have only themselves to depend on. That includes anti vaxxers. Sorry not sorry.

I maintain (and I think you'd agree with this), that empathy can and often does exist for a person outside of any religious affinity or affiliation. In other words, no church has a monopoly on teaching and practicing empathy. Oftentimes, I find freaks to be some of the most 2-faced fakes when it comes to true empathy, using the bible as an excuse for their selfish, uncaring behavior.

I agree with the bolded.

Oh, I absolutely agree. And I also agree that it varies by church. To write all off as bad is just as bad as them writing "non believers" off.

What's sad is I believe that core church principles and especially the bible are excellent guides to empathy and how to be a good human in general. Especially when taught at an early age, it can really make a good foundation. I've read the book, I have a friend who had a masters in Bible theology who's confirmed, it's a legit excellent book of examples of ways to live life well.

But that same friend is gay and was shunned from his church when he came out in his 30s. He lost his entire life including his family and had to start over. All because he's gay. He even went to a pray the gay away thing that (obviously) failed in an attempt to not lose his life. He and I have talked extensively about it, and incredibly because of his background with the bible, he still stands up for it in theory, just admits that people have destroyed it over the years.

I know good churches exist. I really shouldn't discredit all of them. While I'm firmly in the atheist camp personally, I can admit there's immense potential value in religion for many. It's just not one sized fits all, just like life.

Detroit wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:13 am

wap wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:40 am
I maintain (and I think you'd agree with this), that empathy can and often does exist for a person outside of any religious affinity or affiliation. In other words, no church has a monopoly on teaching and practicing empathy. Oftentimes, I find freaks to be some of the most 2-faced fakes when it comes to true empathy, using the bible as an excuse for their selfish, uncaring behavior.

I agree with the bolded.

Oh, I absolutely agree. And I also agree that it varies by church. To write all off as bad is just as bad as them writing "non believers" off.

What's sad is I believe that core church principles and especially the bible are excellent guides to empathy and how to be a good human in general. Especially when taught at an early age, it can really make a good foundation. I've read the book, I have a friend who had a masters in Bible theology who's confirmed, it's a legit excellent book of examples of ways to live life well.

But that same friend is gay and was shunned from his church when he came out in his 30s. He lost his entire life including his family and had to start over. All because he's gay. He even went to a pray the gay away thing that (obviously) failed in an attempt to not lose his life. He and I have talked extensively about it, and incredibly because of his background with the bible, he still stands up for it in theory, just admits that people have destroyed it over the years.

I know good churches exist. I really shouldn't discredit all of them. While I'm firmly in the atheist camp personally, I can admit there's immense potential value in religion for many. It's just not one sized fits all, just like life.

Man, that's so fucked up for your friend. that he hasn't totally turned his back on his religion. I don't think I could do that in his shoes.

Here's a pro-vaxxer taking her kid to a clinic, and the aftermath. You guys can at least appreciate that this is a scary time, and more people then are being documented are having serious side effects and dying.

I personally don't think vaccinating a kid who has 0.02% chance of dying from COVID should be forced to take this risk. We know that vaccinated people are still carriers, don't we?

MexicanYarisTK wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:43 pm

Desertbreh wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:53 pm

There are 20 other solid reasons not to go to weddings other than avoiding the VID.

Dude For real, Ive been to some weddings that I barely remember (not the kind) to people which aren’t even friends to begin with, but rather than being related to one of the attendees. They can be fun (especially free food and booze on their expense), but definitely NOT worth traveling across the country for it, let alone using a vacay day off solely for it too. At that point I rather use my 3-4 day vacay in Cancun and the like, which spending money for a flight and hotel is more worth it.

Funny that you bring that up. The last wedding I went to (which may be the last wedding I went to) was in June, by sister in law's 2nd daughter getting married. Being a fairly ancillary part of the wedding, I figured nobody would pay me any mind and I spent the afternoon before the event in a lovely oyster house with the Mrs. doing.......a little too much pre-func. This was apparently observed by my sister in law, who, after 3 decades of off and on alcohol and prescription drug issues, is now sober and fairly high and mighty about it. Not my best moment. Just thought I would pass on a CSB about your purportedly old and wise forum bro acting like an asshat. I didn't do anything overtly stupid other than stumble onto the bus taking us away from the event. Like the country song says, a little "too much fun."

Back on topic...

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandso ... rml&f=1001

Detroit wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:07 pm Back on topic...

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandso ... rml&f=1001

Canucks are fairly heavily vaccinated (72.3% single dose, 64.5% double dosed), but I don't know that people will continue to take another shot every six months. There are plenty of people like my wife who are still dealing with really nasty side effects two weeks after their second dose (Moderna x2). She is afraid that she'll get even more messed up if she takes a third shot. This can't be that uncommon!

I think this virus will run its course one way or another. Governments can only do so much before it becomes illegal. I am basically taking the stance that we're fucked both ways. If you think you'll live a long and healthy life getting injected with this foreign matter every six months then I'm truly impressed in that confidence level. It's either that or facing the risks of getting the 'VID which will also fuck people up.

My wrap-up thought of the day is that we're pretty much fucked. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't case scenario.

I finally slept from about 730 to 11 AM this morning (after zero sleep the previous night) and that seemed to take care of 95% of the effects. I'm back to my normal tired and sore self.

Detroit wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:13 am

wap wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:40 am
I maintain (and I think you'd agree with this), that empathy can and often does exist for a person outside of any religious affinity or affiliation. In other words, no church has a monopoly on teaching and practicing empathy. Oftentimes, I find freaks to be some of the most 2-faced fakes when it comes to true empathy, using the bible as an excuse for their selfish, uncaring behavior.

I agree with the bolded.

Oh, I absolutely agree. And I also agree that it varies by church. To write all off as bad is just as bad as them writing "non believers" off.

What's sad is I believe that core church principles and especially the bible are excellent guides to empathy and how to be a good human in general. Especially when taught at an early age, it can really make a good foundation. I've read the book, I have a friend who had a masters in Bible theology who's confirmed, it's a legit excellent book of examples of ways to live life well.

But that same friend is gay and was shunned from his church when he came out in his 30s. He lost his entire life including his family and had to start over. All because he's gay. He even went to a pray the gay away thing that (obviously) failed in an attempt to not lose his life. He and I have talked extensively about it, and incredibly because of his background with the bible, he still stands up for it in theory, just admits that people have destroyed it over the years.

I know good churches exist. I really shouldn't discredit all of them. While I'm firmly in the atheist camp personally, I can admit there's immense potential value in religion for many. It's just not one sized fits all, just like life.

Show this to your friend:
https://news.yahoo.com/catholic-officia ... 20987.html

Analyses of cellphone data obtained by a conservative Catholic blog seemed to show priests at multiple levels of the Catholic hierarchy in both the United States and the Vatican using the gay hookup app Grindr.

Detroit wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:13 am

wap wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:40 am
I maintain (and I think you'd agree with this), that empathy can and often does exist for a person outside of any religious affinity or affiliation. In other words, no church has a monopoly on teaching and practicing empathy. Oftentimes, I find freaks to be some of the most 2-faced fakes when it comes to true empathy, using the bible as an excuse for their selfish, uncaring behavior.

I agree with the bolded.

Oh, I absolutely agree. And I also agree that it varies by church. To write all off as bad is just as bad as them writing "non believers" off.

What's sad is I believe that core church principles and especially the bible are excellent guides to empathy and how to be a good human in general. Especially when taught at an early age, it can really make a good foundation. I've read the book, I have a friend who had a masters in Bible theology who's confirmed, it's a legit excellent book of examples of ways to live life well.

But that same friend is gay and was shunned from his church when he came out in his 30s. He lost his entire life including his family and had to start over. All because he's gay. He even went to a pray the gay away thing that (obviously) failed in an attempt to not lose his life. He and I have talked extensively about it, and incredibly because of his background with the bible, he still stands up for it in theory, just admits that people have destroyed it over the years.

I know good churches exist. I really shouldn't discredit all of them. While I'm firmly in the atheist camp personally, I can admit there's immense potential value in religion for many. It's just not one sized fits all, just like life.

I agree that there are many good people use church as an escape, and a way to center themselves. So there is value in religion, but I personally don't have any connection to these entities. Finding the baseline good lessons and applying them to the world we live in is about the most I am willing to entertain.

It's my opinion that churches have turned into oppressive manipulative tools to strip people of their dignity and individuality. They are deplorable, and the majority of these "houses of God" should be lit on fire and let burn to the ground. This shit they call Catholicism is a joke, that goes for most Christian sects, Orthodox is the same shit. Don't even get me started on the oppressive structure formulated by Muslim faith.

I'm on the fence about Judaism, and have to admit that it at least builds their followers up and brings them a sense of confidence in an empowering way. I kind of like the Buddhist method of building inner strength, coping mechanisms that are actually helpful in day to day life. That's about it, people should know how to be good in this day and age, treat others the way you want to be treated.

Pfizer has received full FDA approval.

Anti-vax crowd right now:

Huckleberry wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:29 am Pfizer has received full FDA approval.

Anti-vax crowd right now:

Huckleberry wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:29 am Pfizer has received full FDA approval.

Anti-vax crowd right now:

Well done.

Anyone have reduction of lung capacity a couple weeks after their 2nd Moderna shot? My pro-vaccine wife is having an increasingly difficult time breathing, she was winded going to the beach and last night felt tightness in her chest and more trouble.

She's going to a local clinic to have her vitals tested. I can't make this shit up, and I'm sure that her symptoms are just /anecdotal and it won't make it onto Wap's list of side effects, but she has no other lifestyle changes aside from her shot.

Tarspin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:43 pm Anyone have reduction of lung capacity a couple weeks after their 2nd Moderna shot? My pro-vaccine wife is having an increasingly difficult time breathing, she was winded going to the beach and last night felt tightness in her chest and more trouble.

She's going to a local clinic to have her vitals tested. I can't make this shit up, and I'm sure that her symptoms are just /anecdotal and it won't make it onto Wap's list of side effects, but she has no other lifestyle changes aside from her shot.

I am not an ideologue.

If I could find the damn list I'd update it.

wap wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:14 pm

Tarspin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:43 pm Anyone have reduction of lung capacity a couple weeks after their 2nd Moderna shot? My pro-vaccine wife is having an increasingly difficult time breathing, she was winded going to the beach and last night felt tightness in her chest and more trouble.

She's going to a local clinic to have her vitals tested. I can't make this shit up, and I'm sure that her symptoms are just /anecdotal and it won't make it onto Wap's list of side effects, but she has no other lifestyle changes aside from her shot.

I am not an ideologue.

If I could find the damn list I'd update it.

LOL ok man, no worries... I'm busting balls. The phone in nurse thinks it's a swollen heart and wants her to have x-rays right away. Myocardiosis or something.... hopefully they can medicate to reduce the swelling. Lots of

Tarspin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:29 pm

wap wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:14 pm


I am not an ideologue.

If I could find the damn list I'd update it.

LOL ok man, no worries... I'm busting balls. The phone in nurse thinks it's a swollen heart and wants her to have x-rays right away. Myocardiosis or something.... hopefully they can medicate to reduce the swelling. Lots of

Myocarditis?

Shit. Hope they can fix her up soon.