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[Johnny_P]

I think a lot of airboat captains would love a Bronco, especially if it comes with a removable roof.

We shall see.

Canyon needs to come in bloooo

A Bronco would be epic

But only as a 2 door. Would want.



(aside from the )

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I think a lot of airboat captains would love a Bronco, especially if it comes with a removable roof.

We shall see.

Canyon needs to come in bloooo

A Bronco would be epic

But only as a 2 door. Would want.



(aside from the )

Nobody buys 2-doors. That won't happen. And it definitely won't look like that.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I predict that the Bronco will be one of the biggest automotive let-downs in modern times.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

People are going over it, and I don't know why.

[Johnny_P]

A Bronco would be epic

But only as a 2 door. Would want.



(aside from the )

Nobody buys 2-doors. That won't happen. And it definitely won't look like that.

But... but.... BRONCOS ARE 2 DOORS. GOD. If it's a 4 door it's an Explorer. And that just looks straight up :takemymoney:

Ferd will fuck it up somehow. It'll end up as a 4-door 4Runner competitor and be worse than the current old-as-shit 4Runner.

[Johnny_P]

I predict that the Bronco will be one of the biggest automotive let-downs in modern times.

Oh yeah it probably will be. Because some dumbfuck :millennial: will be on the Bronco team and insist it has a power liftgate and a 3rd row and grocery bag hooks. When it really only needs a V8, 4x4, and a removable top.

They really should make it a short wheelbase Wrangler competitor. But the one they'd compete with is the 4 door Unlimited since it outsells the 2 door by a factor of 4. Which is incredible.

[Melon]

I predict that the Bronco will be one of the biggest automotive let-downs in modern times.

[dubshow]

I predict that the Bronco will be one of the biggest automotive let-downs in modern times.

[dubshow]

I predict that the Bronco will be one of the biggest automotive let-downs in modern times.

GM has some real strong let downs.

HQ.

They riding poor ole Ellis to the grave.

[dubshow]

[ChrisoftheNorth]

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Nobody buys 2-doors. That won't happen. And it definitely won't look like that.

But... but.... BRONCOS ARE 2 DOORS. GOD. If it's a 4 door it's an Explorer. And that just looks straight up :takemymoney:

Ferd will fuck it up somehow. It'll end up as a 4-door 4Runner competitor and be worse than the current old-as-shit 4Runner.

You got it.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I predict that the Bronco will be one of the biggest automotive let-downs in modern times.

Oh yeah it probably will be. Because some dumbfuck :millennial: will be on the Bronco team and insist it has a power liftgate and a 3rd row and grocery bag hooks. When it really only needs a V8, 4x4, and a removable top.

They really should make it a short wheelbase Wrangler competitor. But the one they'd compete with is the 4 door Unlimited since it outsells the 2 door by a factor of 4. Which is incredible.

Because 2-doors are stupid in anything other than a sports car.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I predict that the Bronco will be one of the biggest automotive let-downs in modern times.

Nah, just realistic. Everyone's all over this thing, it began life as a let-down, it can never live up to what people want.

To make a body on frame SUV meet CAFE requirements, it's going to have to have some boosted to hell engine, 4-doors, a third row, and max aero. Look at the Everest, I guarantee that it won't be much different than that.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I predict that the Bronco will be one of the biggest automotive let-downs in modern times.

GM has some real strong let downs.

HQ.

They riding poor ole Ellis to the grave.

No OEM is perfect, IMO. Everyone has their share of let-downs, but this one is going to be monumental. Partially because everyone somehow forgot the abortion that was the Bronco II and OJ Bronco of the 90's and think it's going to be a reincarnation of the original, which is

The industry is littered with failed attempts to eat some of the Wrangler's pie, and it just never works. The brand is stronger than the product itself, another brand trying to go after it is just folly. Not to mention, you need the craziness of the FCA product dept to pull something like this off right. Focus groups and surverys do not build a good enthusiast vehicle. FCA shoots from the hip because it seems like they have actual CAR GUYS on staff, and it works every time. Ferd, just like GM, will over-analyse the thing to death with a mediocre end result that has everyone going

[Apex]

GM has some real strong let downs.

HQ.

They riding poor ole Ellis to the grave.

No OEM is perfect, IMO. Everyone has their share of let-downs, but this one is going to be monumental. Partially because everyone somehow forgot the abortion that was the Bronco II and OJ Bronco of the 90's and think it's going to be a reincarnation of the original, which is

The industry is littered with failed attempts to eat some of the Wrangler's pie, and it just never works. The brand is stronger than the product itself, another brand trying to go after it is just folly. Not to mention, you need the craziness of the FCA product dept to pull something like this off right. Focus groups and surverys do not build a good enthusiast vehicle. FCA shoots from the hip because it seems like they have actual CAR GUYS on staff, and it works every time. Ferd, just like GM, will over-analyse the thing to death with a mediocre end result that has everyone going

A Wrangler competitor needs to be a to the wall crazy vehicle. The Wrangler makes ZERO sense for the real world but they sell tons of them. Analysts can't be allowed anywhere near a vehicle attempting to take a slice of that pie.

[Devilchrono]

I think a lot of airboat captains would love a Bronco, especially if it comes with a removable roof.

We shall see.

Canyon needs to come in bloooo

A Bronco would be epic

But only as a 2 door. Would want.



(aside from the )

My wife said that, if it really does look anything close to that, she wants it as her next vehicle

Sadly, I'm with Detroit in the thinking that it won't look anything like that, which is sad really

[ChrisoftheNorth]

No OEM is perfect, IMO. Everyone has their share of let-downs, but this one is going to be monumental. Partially because everyone somehow forgot the abortion that was the Bronco II and OJ Bronco of the 90's and think it's going to be a reincarnation of the original, which is

The industry is littered with failed attempts to eat some of the Wrangler's pie, and it just never works. The brand is stronger than the product itself, another brand trying to go after it is just folly. Not to mention, you need the craziness of the FCA product dept to pull something like this off right. Focus groups and surverys do not build a good enthusiast vehicle. FCA shoots from the hip because it seems like they have actual CAR GUYS on staff, and it works every time. Ferd, just like GM, will over-analyse the thing to death with a mediocre end result that has everyone going

A Wrangler competitor needs to be a to the wall crazy vehicle. The Wrangler makes ZERO sense for the real world but they sell tons of them. Analysts can't be allowed anywhere near a vehicle attempting to take a slice of that pie.

Right. Which is why it will fail.

People have even tried going wild, and failed...


It's the brand, not the vehicle that sells. There's no point in trying to compete with the Wrangler.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

A Bronco would be epic

But only as a 2 door. Would want.



(aside from the )

My wife said that, if it really does look anything close to that, she wants it as her next vehicle

Sadly, I'm with Detroit in the thinking that it won't look anything like that, which is sad really

It'll be a slightly more aggressive looking:


Probably with a massive sunroof for that "open air" feeling.

Reality is, nobody wants the removable roof. Look at how many Wranglers are sold with hard tops...and how many of those are never removed. I bet it's the vast majority.

[Devilchrono]

My wife said that, if it really does look anything close to that, she wants it as her next vehicle

Sadly, I'm with Detroit in the thinking that it won't look anything like that, which is sad really

It'll be a slightly more aggressive looking:


Probably with a massive sunroof for that "open air" feeling.

Reality is, nobody wants the removable roof. Look at how many Wranglers are sold with hard tops...and how many of those are never removed. I bet it's the vast majority.

I'd be cool if it looks close to the Everest, I think it looks pretty good; though a little too much like the Durango. The giant moon-roof is appealing to my wife, especially since she likes it in my moms Explorer. We've got years before it's time to purchase something new though, so there's plenty of time for it to come out and either stick around cause it's great, or disappear and we have to pick a different vehicle to replace the Rav eventually.

[max225]

A Wrangler competitor needs to be a to the wall crazy vehicle. The Wrangler makes ZERO sense for the real world but they sell tons of them. Analysts can't be allowed anywhere near a vehicle attempting to take a slice of that pie.

Right. Which is why it will fail.

People have even tried going wild, and failed...


It's the brand, not the vehicle that sells. There's no point in trying to compete with the Wrangler.

Tell that to the resale values...

The FJ was pretty succesful up until fuel hit $5 a gallon and everyone got a prius. Same with every other SUV/TRUCK etc that became worthless from 08-12 and are now worth their giant weight in gold.

Matter of fact they sold more FJs than 2 door wranglers...
2006 56,225
2007 55,170
2008 28,688
2009 11,941
2010 14,959
2011 13,541]
2012 13,656
2013 13,131

[max225]

My wife said that, if it really does look anything close to that, she wants it as her next vehicle

Sadly, I'm with Detroit in the thinking that it won't look anything like that, which is sad really

It'll be a slightly more aggressive looking:


Probably with a massive sunroof for that "open air" feeling.

Reality is, nobody wants the removable roof. Look at how many Wranglers are sold with hard tops...and how many of those are never removed. I bet it's the vast majority.

I'd like to disagree here... the hard top is removable in pieces, yes 99% of ppl don't take off the entire hard top because it is a pain in the ass. But the removable section above the driver and passenger is very frequently not present when I see them driving around.

That's how I rolled in Hawaii also.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Right. Which is why it will fail.

People have even tried going wild, and failed...


It's the brand, not the vehicle that sells. There's no point in trying to compete with the Wrangler.

Tell that to the resale values...

The FJ was pretty succesful up until fuel hit $5 a gallon and everyone got a prius. Same with every other SUV/TRUCK etc that became worthless from 08-12 and are now worth their giant weight in gold.

Matter of fact they sold more FJs than 2 door wranglers...
2006 56,225
2007 55,170
2008 28,688
2009 11,941
2010 14,959
2011 13,541]
2012 13,656
2013 13,131

Never rebounded. There's 13k people annually that want one...and with such low demand and ZERO incentives ever on it, resale remains strong. A lot of that is brand too I think.

If there was so much demand, sales should have went back up to the 50k unit range in 2011. Toyota clearly didn't see a future since they killed it.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

It'll be a slightly more aggressive looking:


Probably with a massive sunroof for that "open air" feeling.

Reality is, nobody wants the removable roof. Look at how many Wranglers are sold with hard tops...and how many of those are never removed. I bet it's the vast majority.

I'd like to disagree here... the hard top is removable in pieces, yes 99% of ppl don't take off the entire hard top because it is a pain in the ass. But the removable section above the driver and passenger is very frequently not present when I see them driving around.

That's how I rolled in Hawaii also.

I never see people riding with any of the hardtop panels off here. Suppose it's regional. Still, I'd be shocked if Ferd goes this route.

[max225]

Tell that to the resale values...

The FJ was pretty succesful up until fuel hit $5 a gallon and everyone got a prius. Same with every other SUV/TRUCK etc that became worthless from 08-12 and are now worth their giant weight in gold.

Matter of fact they sold more FJs than 2 door wranglers...
2006 56,225
2007 55,170
2008 28,688
2009 11,941
2010 14,959
2011 13,541]
2012 13,656
2013 13,131

Never rebounded. There's 13k people annually that want one...and with such low demand and ZERO incentives ever on it, resale remains strong. A lot of that is brand too I think.

If there was so much demand, sales should have went back up to the 50k unit range in 2011. Toyota clearly didn't see a future since they killed it.

Well they spent exactly 0 doll hairs on updating it... meanwhile Jeep brought out a far more versatile 4 door that makes a lot more sense for most ppl as indicated by the 4:1 take rate compared to a regular one.
In 2011 Jeep sold 122k wranglers compared to 230k today. Toyota killed it too soon.... IMO they could have ridden this gravy train all the way to the bank.

In the last years toyota basically did what they are doing to Scion... killing it by doing exactly 0 to updates it... And they created ridiculously priced special editions etc, further killing the sales, echoing what you guys are doing with the Burban.

Jeep keeps adding features/content every year. Last FJ was identical to the First one. And they were 8 model years apart