Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times

[Melon2.0]

mid 90s ranger and S10... just loose POS marbles... it was like stirring a stew trying to catch a gear.

I had a 2002 S-10 and 2004 Ranger, Both weren't bad (Both under 40k miles) but the super long throws weren't great.
I've driven some high mileage trucks tho, good god, just a spoon in a soup. "Stirring a stew" feeling describes it perfectly.

[max225]

mid 90s ranger and S10... just loose POS marbles... it was like stirring a stew trying to catch a gear.

I had a 2002 S-10 and 2004 Ranger, Both weren't bad (Both under 40k miles) but the super long throws weren't great.
I've driven some high mileage trucks tho, good god, just a spoon in a soup. "Stirring a stew" feeling describes it perfectly.

yep both were high mileage examples.

[Melon2.0]

Finding first:

[D Griff]

My shifter/clutch/manual rating in order of personal preference. this is going of memory so I could be missing a few for ex ( i drove 3 different miatas but I can't remember them)

Top Tier (order here is sometimes too close to call)
2022 mk8 GTI, short shifts, super precise, super easy to drive, smooth clutch.
2024+ FK8 Civic super easy to drive, notchy (too notchy perhaps), too short of throws
RX8 (unknown year, nearly new) super easy to shift smoothly) nice throws, just overall great
2007 Cayman S with 7k miles. Super notchy, very precise very easy to drive.
F93 M3 30k miles. Short shifts, precise easy to drive.
Focus RS, great short throws, super easy to drive with all the torque down low etc.
STI, great notchy shifter, easy to drive, (hate that engine though and the 3500>6000rpm 2500rpm power band)
WRX less notchy than the STI but honestly very decent in its own way, easy to drive.

Mid Tier:
2022 Tacoma. Super long throws but super easy to find gears, great clutch pickup, forgiving
Older 2005 golf wagon, super easy to drive and just forgiving


Lower tier (no particular order)
2022 C5 (short throw) I want to say I had a hurst in mine... hated this shifter... wouldn't go in to 1st, 10 % of the time, would have to put it into 4th then first.
2001 M3. Wouldn't go into first when cold... overall just forgettable.



mid 90s ranger and S10... just loose POS marbles... it was like stirring a stew trying to catch a gear.

Interesting, obviously subjective but I agree on a lot of them. GTI is very meh/average to me but still enjoyable. Ranger/S10 are def both awful.

Nice to hear about the Porsches, I've honestly only driven higher mileage examples and the shifting was awful, glad to hear it's more just because these were shitboxes (beat Turo machines).

I truly didn't hate the C5, it was kinda mid for the cars I've owned, the BMW 328 was the worst by far. Great chassis, meh drivetrain in that car.

RX8, Miatas, 86, S2000, Integra, RSX-S, 350/370Z, 300ZX, Civic Si, etc. were all very nice. One that I didn't love was the Boss 302, just a bit too manly and hard to push around the shifter and clutch. Lotus Elise was not that great. Fiat 500 is very shitty.

[D Griff]

mid 90s ranger and S10... just loose POS marbles... it was like stirring a stew trying to catch a gear.

I had a 2002 S-10 and 2004 Ranger, Both weren't bad (Both under 40k miles) but the super long throws weren't great.
I've driven some high mileage trucks tho, good god, just a spoon in a soup. "Stirring a stew" feeling describes it perfectly.

Yeah I never experienced that new new but Jeremy and I's IRL friend Maxx had a Ranger with like 150K miles and it was probably worst of all time, that or my buddy's MGB.

Other trucks I've experienced with some miles were pretty decent, I feel like your Dakota wasn't bad and a 150K mile Taco is also dece, albeit long throws.

[max225]

I typed a long post and my fucking internet died. (Big updates on the mini)

[D Griff]

Great stuff from another guy who's pretty heavily interested in these. I would LOVE to hear a comparison if you're able to test the Acura variant.

Interesting on the shifter. What cars have been your favorite manuals versus least favorite (curious on comparison)? I really enjoy the very notchy, mechanical feeling of Hondas and most Japanese cars, but some like the smoother feel of Euro.

Road noise wise, also curious on what it compares to... like my 86 is attrociously noisy inside as is my tent equipped Wrangler obviously. I'd assume it would be better than both of those which is frankly fine. Not surprising when you're comparing it to dailying a $100K BMW it's a different animal.

Finally, I thought sticker was kind of around, considering used ones seem a few K below? Have you done digging into this? I truly don't know.

I think if I go this route in the future, a 10K mile Type S would be it for me. I think the wife would like it a lot more and be a lot more keen on spending $45K on an Acura versus $50K on a Civic. Plus better ride and stereo would be dope. That said, I think I'd be sad to not get the Type R seats.

Unfortunately I have a red line on the Acura. I have the tsx sitting in the garage at the moment and I just can’t put my money into that dying brand. It’s a personal thing and I know I should drive it but … it’s like having been cheated on a by a red head and swearing off that breed all together.

Shifters, I’m pretty brand agnostic. In terms of what I liked the most? Which will probably disqualify me from future comments but the current and prior GTI shifters always felt good to me. The best “bolt action” shifter was in the Cayman S with 7k miles that I drove. But then I drove one with 80k miles in non S for and it was trash. So imo age of the car/shifter cannot be dismissed as shifters age out.

I’m not a complete when it comes to road noise I expected some. Wranglers don’t have road noise they have wind noise and it’s ok. This was worse far worse … but for reasons of it being a small car etc. the closest was my 370z as far as road noise. Also very “tinny” and resonating throughout the cabin.

As far as type R pricing. I sense it may be region specific. The gray one at the Porsche dealer I posted sold in less than 7 days at 44.5k. The dealer that I test drove at has a weird addendum policy. Will post more at a computer in a bit

Fair point on wind versus road noise. Regardless, I'm used to some very loud cars. 86 road noise is significant, wind noise is nada, it's decently well built.

I do hear you on the Acura... The Asian sub lux brands in general are kind of dumb. Lexus is decent, the others are The Civic R is more of a future classic I suppose, but they're the same car, both hold a place in my heart.

I just want the Civic seats, otherwise I'm good with the Teggy. I think I also like it because I had a Civic in high school and an Integra was like a step up I coveted. I put quite a few Integra parts on my Civic - wheels, seats, suspension.

[max225]

I think the integra before was quite a bit of a step up from the shitvic now it’s like a total wash

[Melon2.0]

I think the integra before was quite a bit of a step up from the shitvic now it’s like a total wash

I liked it more than the CT-R. More "grown-up"

[max225]

So the move on the Mini pooper.

Since I’m on the phone I can’t make a complete and cohesive post.

Long story short.
It does have maintenance and I got a shipping quote and it’s under $1000. It is also under factory warranty for another year.

Seems like minimal risk. The woman is super nice and sent me a vid and outlined all of the really minor issues with it that she said they could address ?!

Does this seem like a good/special enough color combo is the question. And am I being a complete and utter cuck or doing the reasonable thing by not ing on a 70-90k otd m3, 63k raptor or 52k civic ….

This would be $33k all in tops… and I’d wager to say a bit of fun as well

[golftdibrad1]

So the move on the Mini pooper.

Since I’m on the phone I can’t make a complete and cohesive post.

Long story short.
It does have maintenance and I got a shipping quote and it’s under $1000. It is also under factory warranty for another year.

Seems like minimal risk. The woman is super nice and sent me a vid and outlined all of the really minor issues with it that she said they could address ?!

Does this seem like a good/special enough color combo is the question. And am I being a complete and utter cuck or doing the reasonable thing by not ing on a 70-90k otd m3, 63k raptor or 52k civic ….

This would be $33k all in tops… and I’d wager to say a bit of fun as well

used?

half measure in general. ew. Will also depreciate like a rock.

[max225]

So the move on the Mini pooper.

Since I’m on the phone I can’t make a complete and cohesive post.

Long story short.
It does have maintenance and I got a shipping quote and it’s under $1000. It is also under factory warranty for another year.

Seems like minimal risk. The woman is super nice and sent me a vid and outlined all of the really minor issues with it that she said they could address ?!

Does this seem like a good/special enough color combo is the question. And am I being a complete and utter cuck or doing the reasonable thing by not ing on a 70-90k otd m3, 63k raptor or 52k civic ….

This would be $33k all in tops… and I’d wager to say a bit of fun as well

used?

half measure in general. ew. Will also depreciate like a rock.

Everything short of a 911 T is a half measure. And yes used like the cuck that I am, that’s the only one that makes sense

[Melon2.0]

The mini is pretty dope.

[max225]

The mini is pretty dope.

It checks a lot of boxes but not every box

[Tar]

@max, how much freeway driving do you do? Any concerns with sitting low/night driving? Two door for a kid in the back eh, how much will the woman tolerate that charade if she's left with the Mini?

Just some peripheral thoughts that may or may not carry weight.

[Melon2.0]

The mini is pretty dope.

It checks a lot of boxes but not every box

I can see that. Glad you got to look at it in person.

[golftdibrad1]

used?

half measure in general. ew. Will also depreciate like a rock.

Everything short of a 911 T is a half measure. And yes used like the cuck that I am, that’s the only one that makes sense

Well then at least its used. 911 or nothing is kinda a dumb take for getting a sports car tho. IDK if you like it go for it, you wont keep it more than 1.5 years anyway.

[max225]

@max, how much freeway driving do you do? Any concerns with sitting low/night driving? Two door for a kid in the back eh, how much will the woman tolerate that charade if she's left with the Mini?

Just some peripheral thoughts that may or may not carry weight.

This is a second car for when I don’t take kid or drive to work etc.

I have a giant 5700# suv for kid duty and that won’t change.

Currently I drive about 15000 miles a year. 12000 freeway, and only about 7500 are with the kid. This will NOT be a primary kid hauler at all.

Woman is fine with the mini, and she loved the last one we had more than I liked it and I liked it a fair amount.

Just to be clear this vehicles primary purpose is fun. Not kid duty or commuting. It should however be able to do it

[max225]

Everything short of a 911 T is a half measure. And yes used like the cuck that I am, that’s the only one that makes sense

Well then at least its used. 911 or nothing is kinda a dumb take for getting a sports car tho. IDK if you like it go for it, you wont keep it more than 1.5 years anyway.

Is it ? I have had every other sports car (m3, 370z, corvette) I liked already so it’s the only box left to check.

[max225]

It checks a lot of boxes but not every box

I can see that. Glad you got to look at it in person.

I have not … the vehicle is located 1500 miles away and this is a “blind” purchase

[Melon2.0]

I can see that. Glad you got to look at it in person.

I have not … the vehicle is located 1500 miles away and this is a “blind” purchase

I saw the pics and assumed.

[max225]

I have not … the vehicle is located 1500 miles away and this is a “blind” purchase

I saw the pics and assumed.

Beatriz the sent them my way.

[wap]

[max225]

For those curious and claiming “I wouldn’t pay xxx for a civic” you seem to be a singularity.

Msrp is 47,295
Dealer 1 - 10k asking markup willing to lower to 5k because I’m local + 1,495 in accessories
Dealer 2 - 10k markup can discuss what it can be but there will be markup and they have $3k accessories on average civic
Dealer 3 - 14,995 markup willing to do “half” but another $495 in accessories. And “I’d have to come in to negotiate”

So boys… that’s the state of the hype… not sure if I can get one without markup locally…




But I did my homework … mind you those 3 are heavily well reviewed dealers

[Johnny_P]

Unfortunately I have a red line on the Acura. I have the tsx sitting in the garage at the moment and I just can’t put my money into that dying brand. It’s a personal thing and I know I should drive it but … it’s like having been cheated on a by a red head and swearing off that breed all together.

Shifters, I’m pretty brand agnostic. In terms of what I liked the most? Which will probably disqualify me from future comments but the current and prior GTI shifters always felt good to me. The best “bolt action” shifter was in the Cayman S with 7k miles that I drove. But then I drove one with 80k miles in non S for and it was trash. So imo age of the car/shifter cannot be dismissed as shifters age out.

I’m not a complete when it comes to road noise I expected some. Wranglers don’t have road noise they have wind noise and it’s ok. This was worse far worse … but for reasons of it being a small car etc. the closest was my 370z as far as road noise. Also very “tinny” and resonating throughout the cabin.

As far as type R pricing. I sense it may be region specific. The gray one at the Porsche dealer I posted sold in less than 7 days at 44.5k. The dealer that I test drove at has a weird addendum policy. Will post more at a computer in a bit

Fair point on wind versus road noise. Regardless, I'm used to some very loud cars. 86 road noise is significant, wind noise is nada, it's decently well built.

I do hear you on the Acura... The Asian sub lux brands in general are kind of dumb. Lexus is decent, the others are The Civic R is more of a future classic I suppose, but they're the same car, both hold a place in my heart.

I just want the Civic seats, otherwise I'm good with the Teggy. I think I also like it because I had a Civic in high school and an Integra was like a step up I coveted. I put quite a few Integra parts on my Civic - wheels, seats, suspension.

Acura gets you a Honda with nicer seats and a way better sound system. Like a regular Civic doesn’t even get lumbar support. If there was an Acura accord hybrid I’d have looked for one.