Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times

[Melon2.0]

Could be read as Man Trans
Definitely not in a deep red state.
I don't want to get shot at.

Twas deliberate. Might as well troll

[MrH42]

As cool as the Emira is, I think I would take a 718 4.0 GTS and C8 Z06 over it. $100k is just too much to put up with Lotus bullshit.

[max225]

As cool as the Emira is, I think I would take a 718 4.0 GTS and C8 Z06 over it. $100k is just too much to put up with Lotus bullshit.

Yea the lotus bullshit is a real buzz killer. Such a beautiful car

[Melon2.0]

They just add lightness all on their own.

[MrH42]

As cool as the Emira is, I think I would take a 718 4.0 GTS and C8 Z06 over it. $100k is just too much to put up with Lotus bullshit.

Yea the lotus bullshit is a real buzz killer. Such a beautiful car

Yeah, it really is.

It's the same with the Elise. They were mid $40k new 20 years ago. They go for the same money or more if they're in good shape. A tiny bumper hit and they're totaled, so a ton of them are salvage titled. The giant fiberglass shells crack with the slightest bump. The whole chassis is fragile. It's a whole lot of bullshit to put up with for that kind of money. You can get a miata new for much cheaper with none of that.

I want Toyota to revive the MR-2. Mid-engine Miata competitor would be awesome.

[Melon2.0]

I want Toyota to revive the MR-2. Mid-engine Miata competitor would be awesome.

[Desertbreh]

As cool as the Emira is, I think I would take a 718 4.0 GTS and C8 Z06 over it. $100k is just too much to put up with Lotus bullshit.

Hard to argue with this analysis. It's a looker though.

[max225]

Yea the lotus bullshit is a real buzz killer. Such a beautiful car

Yeah, it really is.

It's the same with the Elise. They were mid $40k new 20 years ago. They go for the same money or more if they're in good shape. A tiny bumper hit and they're totaled, so a ton of them are salvage titled. The giant fiberglass shells crack with the slightest bump. The whole chassis is fragile. It's a whole lot of bullshit to put up with for that kind of money. You can get a miata new for much cheaper with none of that.

I want Toyota to revive the MR-2. Mid-engine Miata competitor would be awesome.

If it has a reasonable price it wouldn’t mind one at all… but Toyota decided they are a luxury brand

[D Griff]

Yea the lotus bullshit is a real buzz killer. Such a beautiful car

Yeah, it really is.

It's the same with the Elise. They were mid $40k new 20 years ago. They go for the same money or more if they're in good shape. A tiny bumper hit and they're totaled, so a ton of them are salvage titled. The giant fiberglass shells crack with the slightest bump. The whole chassis is fragile. It's a whole lot of bullshit to put up with for that kind of money. You can get a miata new for much cheaper with none of that.

I want Toyota to revive the MR-2. Mid-engine Miata competitor would be awesome.

I have a lot of seat time in Miatas and I've driven an Elise on track and the driving experience is not even the least bit similar. Your points are def valid but comparing it to a Miata just isn't fair, the Elise is the closest thing to a race car I've experienced, it rotates completely differently than anything I've driven, the steering is otherworldly, just a completely different drive versus a Miata that just feels like 'an old friend' to drive.

[coogles]

As cool as the Emira is, I think I would take a 718 4.0 GTS and C8 Z06 over it. $100k is just too much to put up with Lotus bullshit.

How about $79k?

https://gatormotorsport.com/sales/inven ... 6000-miles

[coogles]

Coincidentally they also have a 718 Cayman S (turbo 4) listed for $85.6k.

https://gatormotorsport.com/sales/inven ... eed-manual

That'd be a fun comparo.

[Desertbreh]

Pretty hot. That color on the Lotus

[CaleDeRoo]

As cool as the Emira is, I think I would take a 718 4.0 GTS and C8 Z06 over it. $100k is just too much to put up with Lotus bullshit.

How about $79k?

https://gatormotorsport.com/sales/inven ... 6000-miles

My friend had one and it was a build quality disaster.

[max225]

As cool as the Emira is, I think I would take a 718 4.0 GTS and C8 Z06 over it. $100k is just too much to put up with Lotus bullshit.

How about $79k?

https://gatormotorsport.com/sales/inven ... 6000-miles

That’s 8 years old …. I have seen 2021-2 for that much or not much more

[max225]

I thought you would like this Used 2021 Lotus Evora for $87665 on Autotrader http://atcm.co/S2PVDP/2A7D7869.

[max225]

Or if you wanted to be

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... tmobileapp

[Melon2.0]

Damn Evoras are still

[Desertbreh]

Damn Evoras are still

That's because they are still 3K lb cars with 400hp mid engines that look like sin. You want one.

[Johnny_P]

Yeah, it really is.

It's the same with the Elise. They were mid $40k new 20 years ago. They go for the same money or more if they're in good shape. A tiny bumper hit and they're totaled, so a ton of them are salvage titled. The giant fiberglass shells crack with the slightest bump. The whole chassis is fragile. It's a whole lot of bullshit to put up with for that kind of money. You can get a miata new for much cheaper with none of that.

I want Toyota to revive the MR-2. Mid-engine Miata competitor would be awesome.

I have a lot of seat time in Miatas and I've driven an Elise on track and the driving experience is not even the least bit similar. Your points are def valid but comparing it to a Miata just isn't fair, the Elise is the closest thing to a race car I've experienced, it rotates completely differently than anything I've driven, the steering is otherworldly, just a completely different drive versus a Miata that just feels like 'an old friend' to drive.

The Elise was certainly something else.
The Cayman S got very close while having a better interior, suspension, motor, and build quality.
The view over the caymans hood was shit though. Looked like you were in a beetle with the curved wheel humps and bumper. The Elise was way cooler to look out of. Actually the BRZ was too, with the sharp fender lines.

Haven’t driven a Miata. I’d like to some day. But I’d rather own a Bronco oddly enough. People drive like clowns here. Even being in my accord (which is enormous for a sedan) makes me uneasy at times.

[golftdibrad1]

Lotus has become stratospherically expensive and un-obtanioum, and heavy(er). They forgot about simplify then add lightness.

I think my comment revolves around new shit being too stiff, too fast, too much grip, too uncomfortable, too wide, too complicated, too expensive, just TOO MUCH. I mean is all that shit you listed bad cars? no. But they take away alot of that sporting fun aspect of a car by both taking you to go to jail speeds before you can explore the limits of grip and having a bad outcome on the other side due to said speed should the loose nut behind the wheel get it wrong. Combine that with the fantastic cost involved and there are a lot of rich assholes out there with more money than skill in very, very, very fast cars.

Corvette did used to be / feel like a bigger faster more rattly miata. I cannot comment on C8 driving dynamics personally but they definitely went for more traditional supercar layout and feedback from reviews suggest it drives like one. Incredible value for the money, but thats still a cheap supercar not a sports car.

The Miata and the 86 do the sports car for the people thing well; its fun as fuck, not over-tired, quick but not fast, and comfortable to use every day. Oh and not closer to 100k than not too. IMHO Miata is better, thats all.

I mean... I own an 86 and have owned a Miata, I don't disagree, they're great sports cars for regular folks. I certainly don't have the second lightest/simplest car for sale in this country accidentally. I also noted in a thread here recently that my favorite driving memory ever was in a Fiat 124, so I love these things. Pinnacle is just a strong word. All very subjective though, the Miata is definitely a fantastic sports car and great value, especially used.

this is my inner James May coming out, the nuremburg ring ruined cars with everyone chasing lap times, etc. My Miata handles the train tracks I cross everyday better than the BMW comfort wise, and can go around a corner faster.

And to my earlier point, chasing lap times is cool and all on a track, track weapon special, or if you are into that and want to mod your sports car. A sports car should not be a street legal track car, it should be a good car that is also fun to drive quickly. I feel like alot of the new shit in the last 10 years has forgotten this and are more concerned setting a good ring time, or for the lightning lap at VIR, or reviewing well at big willow, etc. Miata and FRZ 86 dont have the price point to make the power to do those things, so they dont chase those metrics and just make a daym good fun to drive car.

Today was a miata day, and that thing is a joy to be in and drive even slow around town. THAT is what makes a great car. I sold my mustang for this exact reason - it was a hoot to grab by the scruff and do fast things with, but it was dogshit as a daily.

[D Griff]

I mean... I own an 86 and have owned a Miata, I don't disagree, they're great sports cars for regular folks. I certainly don't have the second lightest/simplest car for sale in this country accidentally. I also noted in a thread here recently that my favorite driving memory ever was in a Fiat 124, so I love these things. Pinnacle is just a strong word. All very subjective though, the Miata is definitely a fantastic sports car and great value, especially used.

this is my inner James May coming out, the nuremburg ring ruined cars with everyone chasing lap times, etc. My Miata handles the train tracks I cross everyday better than the BMW comfort wise, and can go around a corner faster.

And to my earlier point, chasing lap times is cool and all on a track, track weapon special, or if you are into that and want to mod your sports car. A sports car should not be a street legal track car, it should be a good car that is also fun to drive quickly. I feel like alot of the new shit in the last 10 years has forgotten this and are more concerned setting a good ring time, or for the lightning lap at VIR, or reviewing well at big willow, etc. Miata and FRZ 86 dont have the price point to make the power to do those things, so they dont chase those metrics and just make a daym good fun to drive car.

Today was a miata day, and that thing is a joy to be in and drive even slow around town. THAT is what makes a great car. I sold my mustang for this exact reason - it was a hoot to grab by the scruff and do fast things with, but it was dogshit as a daily.

I 100% agree. I really did love my Corvette, it was my favorite to date, particularly after some key mods. BUT I live in a pretty urban area, I mostly drive to the airport, grocery store, family's houses, the stuff I actually do a low powered car with great inputs is the most fun thing to me. Miata would be even more fun if I didn't benefit from the elevated practicality.

[D Griff]

I have a lot of seat time in Miatas and I've driven an Elise on track and the driving experience is not even the least bit similar. Your points are def valid but comparing it to a Miata just isn't fair, the Elise is the closest thing to a race car I've experienced, it rotates completely differently than anything I've driven, the steering is otherworldly, just a completely different drive versus a Miata that just feels like 'an old friend' to drive.

The Elise was certainly something else.
The Cayman S got very close while having a better interior, suspension, motor, and build quality.
The view over the caymans hood was shit though. Looked like you were in a beetle with the curved wheel humps and bumper. The Elise was way cooler to look out of. Actually the BRZ was too, with the sharp fender lines.

Haven’t driven a Miata. I’d like to some day. But I’d rather own a Bronco oddly enough. People drive like clowns here. Even being in my accord (which is enormous for a sedan) makes me uneasy at times.

Yeah, the Porsches are better cars and deliver most of the driving experience, but if you really want that ultimate drive, the Lotus is it to me. Even the Ferrari 430 didn't come too close.

[Melon2.0]

The people without mag ride are arguing again.

[CaleDeRoo]

The people without mag ride are arguing again.

Imagine your sports car insulating you from the road surface

[Melon2.0]

Imagine your sports car insulating you from the road surface

Soft as a cloud
Hard as a rock

All with the press of a button.