DYELB: The Gainz Train

[SAWCE]

If you ever do go the enhanced route, I’d spend the little extra to go through a clinic and do bloodwork every 3-4 months to make sure you stay healthy. Ultimately this is all because I didn’t do bloodwork or give blood for over a year, so I had no idea how high the numbers had gotten.

I'd do that even if I were to really be interested in the TRT route. The Marek Health route seems legit, but . I'm pushing 40 now...I feel pretty damn good most of the time, but I wouldn't be shocked if TRT is something I look at eventually.

Good luck being natty for a bit, . I'm sure it's not easy after being on gear.

Yeah Marek has partnered with a bunch of big name people like Mark Bell and Stan Efferding. They seem solid. One of my buddies uses Transcend, I use Magnus Medical. They all get their shit from the same labs.

I’ve done it before for short 10-12 weeks stints. I’m hoping that that is all I need to get my health shit under control and then I can go back to the gear with a new found respect for the importance of regular bloodwork and donations.

[Desertbreh]

I could use some gear this week. I'm been hitting it for almost two weeks straight and my shoulders are in full rebellion. Geriatric lyfe.

[SAWCE]

I could use some gear this week. I'm been hitting it for almost two weeks straight and my shoulders are in full rebellion. Geriatric lyfe.

Slide a little deca in there, and a base of test of course, and welcome your new found youthfulness.

[Desertbreh]

OK. So literally on the day after my 55th birthday last Friday, I welcomed a new class of inflammation to my life. My knees have been pretty blissfully problem free over my life but every day is a new day. Starting last Friday, escalating Saturday, decreasing yesterday and almost gone today, I have had the following symptoms.

1. A couple of reddish marks above the kneecap.
2. Soreness UNDER the kneecap on the shin. Like sore to the touch when you poke it, but not extreme pain. Bending the knee backward to do a thigh stretch "stretched" the soreness. Felt not great to put full weight on.

This morning things have rectified themselves pretty much, slight soreness if I press my finder in under my kneecap.
Google suggest some kind of patellar tendon issue.

Anybody had something like this? NOT super excited about lifting heavy weight and tearing something, just called a sports PT place for an appt.

Current Leg Workout after hammy, thigh, calf stretching and some foam roller on the hips...

Goblet Squats:
1 X 40 X 10
1 X 50 X 10
1 X 65 X 5
1 X 80 X 5
3 X 95 X5

Nordic Hamstring Curls

5 X 6. Yes, I still use an assist band.

Leg Sled.

1 X360 X 10
1 X 450 X 5
1 X 540 X 5
1 X 630 X 5
1 X 720 X 5
1 X 810 X 5
1 X 450 to exhaustion
1 X 360 to exhaustion

Hip Thrusts

1 X 135 X 10
1 X 185 X 10
2 X 225 X 10

I do my calves on whatever day and time somebody is using my exercise equipment. I've given up on big calves, no time or dedication.

What do you think? I think I need to get a picture taken of my knee to make sure I'm not going to tear the fuck out of something.

[Desertbreh]

I use the elite fts knee sleeves during the leg press.

[coogles]

You have access to a sled? Knee rehab should begin with some time spent walking backwards pulling the sled. You want to start really light on these, I'd probably start with a single plate on it. You don't want to make the mistake of going too heavy and having to take really small, choppy steps. You want the load to be light to begin, and you want to be able to take a step back that's almost as big as you'd take if you weren't pulling any load, and be able to do that without pain. Press your big toe and the ball of your foot into the turf and then extend that knee, and go for 5 minutes. Before you know it your VMOs will be on fire.



After that I'd try doing some pulses on a slant board to a depth you can tolerate pain free, and feel free to use some something for assistance here, like PVC poles or chairs as shown below. I'd say sled 3-4x per week, do the slant pulses twice per week, and watch them knees start to feel better.

[Desertbreh]

You have access to a sled? Knee rehab should begin with some time spent walking backwards pulling the sled. You want to start really light on these, I'd probably start with a single plate on it. You don't want to make the mistake of going too heavy and having to take really small, choppy steps. You want the load to be light to begin, and you want to be able to take a step back that's almost as big as you'd take if you weren't pulling any load, and be able to do that without pain. Press your big toe and the ball of your foot into the turf and then extend that knee, and go for 5 minutes. Before you know it your VMOs will be on fire.



After that I'd try doing some pulses on a slant board to a depth you can tolerate pain free, and feel free to use some something for assistance here, like PVC poles or chairs as shown below. I'd say sled 3-4x per week, do the slant pulses twice per week, and watch them knees start to feel better.

I don't have a sled. Does walking backward on an elevated treadmill accomplish the same thing?

[coogles]

I don't have a sled. Does walking backward on an elevated treadmill accomplish the same thing?

Oh, your prior post said "leg sled", figured that's what that was.

You can use a treadmill turned off and walk backward on it for sure. There won't be that much resistance but if you're just starting out it's definitely enough to get some blood flowing around the knee.

My gym has one of these:

https://fitnessedgeonline.com/stairmast ... B4QAvD_BwE


which works pretty well as a substitute. It has its own internal resistance that I can set fairly light for going backwards and crank it up going forward, like doing a heavy-ass sled drive.

[SAWCE]

That is right where I’ve been having my knee issues. I’ve added a few things prior to quad work that seems to be greatly helping:

Banded side steps… loop a band around your legs, slightly above your knees, and just shuffle steps in each direction, make sure to keep your knees straight or slightly turned out during this. Great glute activation, and I do believe some of my pain was cause by my quads being disproportionately stronger than my glutes.

Second one, take that same band, loop one end behind one knee, loop the rest of the band around something that will not move (power rack, or any machine at the gym really) at knee height, then loop the free end behind your other knee. Take a step or two back so the band is trying to bend your knees. Do a set or two of bodyweight squats like that, allowing the band to pull your knees forward, but like Coogs and the knees over toes guy preach how your knees should be moving in a squat.

I’ve had my first few pain-free leg days from doing these the last few weeks after months of crazy knee pain.

[SAWCE]

I’d also love those hip thrusts to before your squat movement

[Desertbreh]

I’d also love those hip thrusts to before your squat movement

K Y THO?

[Desertbreh]

That is right where I’ve been having my knee issues. I’ve added a few things prior to quad work that seems to be greatly helping:

Banded side steps… loop a band around your legs, slightly above your knees, and just shuffle steps in each direction, make sure to keep your knees straight or slightly turned out during this. Great glute activation, and I do believe some of my pain was cause by my quads being disproportionately stronger than my glutes.

Second one, take that same band, loop one end behind one knee, loop the rest of the band around something that will not move (power rack, or any machine at the gym really) at knee height, then loop the free end behind your other knee. Take a step or two back so the band is trying to bend your knees. Do a set or two of bodyweight squats like that, allowing the band to pull your knees forward, but like Coogs and the knees over toes guy preach how your knees should be moving in a squat.

I’ve had my first few pain-free leg days from doing these the last few weeks after months of crazy knee pain.

noted.

[Desertbreh]

Thanks a lot guys. Lots to try out there.

[Desertbreh]

That is right where I’ve been having my knee issues. I’ve added a few things prior to quad work that seems to be greatly helping:

Banded side steps… loop a band around your legs, slightly above your knees, and just shuffle steps in each direction, make sure to keep your knees straight or slightly turned out during this. Great glute activation, and I do believe some of my pain was cause by my quads being disproportionately stronger than my glutes.

Second one, take that same band, loop one end behind one knee, loop the rest of the band around something that will not move (power rack, or any machine at the gym really) at knee height, then loop the free end behind your other knee. Take a step or two back so the band is trying to bend your knees. Do a set or two of bodyweight squats like that, allowing the band to pull your knees forward, but like Coogs and the knees over toes guy preach how your knees should be moving in a squat.

I’ve had my first few pain-free leg days from doing these the last few weeks after months of crazy knee pain.

This is the difference between being in your 30s and being in your 50s. You're like, "maybe I'll cut back to 460 on the deadlift" and I'm like "I may be crippled if I don't take a timeout"

[SAWCE]

I’d also love those hip thrusts to before your squat movement

K Y THO?

Even in a very quad dominant squat, your glutes are still firing. Hot them first and you’ll be able to feel them more, but also since they’ll be fatigued you won’t be able to use as much weight which will mean less weight on your knees while still keeping tension on your quads

[Desertbreh]

K Y THO?

Even in a very quad dominant squat, your glutes are still firing. Hot them first and you’ll be able to feel them more, but also since they’ll be fatigued you won’t be able to use as much weight which will mean less weight on your knees while still keeping tension on your quads

Understood.

[golftdibrad1]

K Y THO?

Even in a very quad dominant squat, your glutes are still firing. Hot them first and you’ll be able to feel them more, but also since they’ll be fatigued you won’t be able to use as much weight which will mean less weight on your knees while still keeping tension on your quads

IDK man that logic seems exactly backwards. The posterior chain of glutes and hamstrings helps the cancel the forces from the anterior acting through the stabilizing structures of the knee in the squat. If you were to unbalance the ability of the lower body to generate those forces, you might put EXTRA stresses on the knees. Now that being said, stress is what generates an adaptation in the recovery from a workout. BUT, tendons and ligaments are the structures that take the longest to adapt to said stresses. I would just be cautious and not go overboard on what are essentially ASSistance ( ) movements before a fully body motion like the squat.

[D Griff]

Even in a very quad dominant squat, your glutes are still firing. Hot them first and you’ll be able to feel them more, but also since they’ll be fatigued you won’t be able to use as much weight which will mean less weight on your knees while still keeping tension on your quads

IDK man that logic seems exactly backwards. The posterior chain of glutes and hamstrings helps the cancel the forces from the anterior acting through the stabilizing structures of the knee in the squat. If you were to unbalance the ability of the lower body to generate those forces, you might put EXTRA stresses on the knees. Now that being said, stress is what generates an adaptation in the recovery from a workout. BUT, tendons and ligaments are the structures that take the longest to adapt to said stresses. I would just be cautious and not go overboard on what are essentially ASSistance ( ) movements before a fully body motion like the squat.

I see the logic, BUT the idea is that by fatiguing a bit before, the weight will be lower without making the lift easier. Lower weight = lower stress on the joints and other sensitive areas.

I, for example, precede every dead lift set with a set of pull ups or chin ups. So, 10ish pull ups and then immediately into the DL. My grip is lessened because of it, as is my overall weight in the exercise, but it's really helped in lowering the stress and discomfort/aftermath on my back.

I think as we get older, the big movements belong more at the end of a workout or in the middle.

[golftdibrad1]

IDK man that logic seems exactly backwards. The posterior chain of glutes and hamstrings helps the cancel the forces from the anterior acting through the stabilizing structures of the knee in the squat. If you were to unbalance the ability of the lower body to generate those forces, you might put EXTRA stresses on the knees. Now that being said, stress is what generates an adaptation in the recovery from a workout. BUT, tendons and ligaments are the structures that take the longest to adapt to said stresses. I would just be cautious and not go overboard on what are essentially ASSistance ( ) movements before a fully body motion like the squat.

I see the logic, BUT the idea is that by fatiguing a bit before, the weight will be lower without making the lift easier. Lower weight = lower stress on the joints and other sensitive areas.

I, for example, precede every dead lift set with a set of pull ups or chin ups. So, 10ish pull ups and then immediately into the DL. My grip is lessened because of it, as is my overall weight in the exercise, but it's really helped in lowering the stress and discomfort/aftermath on my back.

I think as we get older, the big movements belong more at the end of a workout or in the middle.

I can see that. As I have been healing up from some minorish injuries from doing the heavy compound lifts, I have become a fan of drop sets. IE for the uninitiated ( I know you all in this thread prob know the term) I work up to my heavy sets, do them, and then drop the weight by a plate or something to get in some additional volume / stress at a lower weight. In my somewhat limited experience, although I've been training 6+ years now, the stress from moving the big loads is what continues to drive (or for me right now, maintain all the) progress.

[D Griff]

I see the logic, BUT the idea is that by fatiguing a bit before, the weight will be lower without making the lift easier. Lower weight = lower stress on the joints and other sensitive areas.

I, for example, precede every dead lift set with a set of pull ups or chin ups. So, 10ish pull ups and then immediately into the DL. My grip is lessened because of it, as is my overall weight in the exercise, but it's really helped in lowering the stress and discomfort/aftermath on my back.

I think as we get older, the big movements belong more at the end of a workout or in the middle.

I can see that. As I have been healing up from some minorish injuries from doing the heavy compound lifts, I have become a fan of drop sets. IE for the uninitiated ( I know you all in this thread prob know the term) I work up to my heavy sets, do them, and then drop the weight by a plate or something to get in some additional volume / stress at a lower weight. In my somewhat limited experience, although I've been training 6+ years now, the stress from moving the big loads is what continues to drive (or for me right now, maintain all the) progress.

Ultimately if your goal is getting stronger, this is definitely the case IMO.

I just know that I got injuries to my back pursuing this in my late 20s, it seems a bit of a fools errand at 55 which I think Eric has echoed for a while. Maintaining strength, weight, and fitness would likely be my own goal at that point, but there are certainly plenty of dudes out there who are older than that and strong/jacked as hell.

[SAWCE]

Even in a very quad dominant squat, your glutes are still firing. Hot them first and you’ll be able to feel them more, but also since they’ll be fatigued you won’t be able to use as much weight which will mean less weight on your knees while still keeping tension on your quads

IDK man that logic seems exactly backwards. The posterior chain of glutes and hamstrings helps the cancel the forces from the anterior acting through the stabilizing structures of the knee in the squat. If you were to unbalance the ability of the lower body to generate those forces, you might put EXTRA stresses on the knees. Now that being said, stress is what generates an adaptation in the recovery from a workout. BUT, tendons and ligaments are the structures that take the longest to adapt to said stresses. I would just be cautious and not go overboard on what are essentially ASSistance ( ) movements before a fully body motion like the squat.

You do have a point. If you absolutely hammer your glutes or hamstrings first, that’d be a bad thing and reduce stability for sure. But a couple sets of hip thrusts should still leave plenty in the tank for them to do their job as a secondary mover and stabilizer in a squat pattern. Like Dan said, we’re just going for a bit of pre-exhaustion not a full beat down of the muscle.

So maybe that should have been my recommendation to Breh. Before squatting, do one or two light sets of hamstring curls and hip thrusts. Get a little pump going in both muscles and see if it helps your knees.

[coogles]

Ultimately if your goal is getting stronger, this is definitely the case IMO.

I just know that I got injuries to my back pursuing this in my late 20s, it seems a bit of a fools errand at 55 which I think Eric has echoed for a while. Maintaining strength, weight, and fitness would likely be my own goal at that point, but there are certainly plenty of dudes out there who are older than that and strong/jacked as hell.

I bulged a disc pretty badly at 21 and kept beating my head against the powerlifting wall for the next 10 years. I'm well short of 55 (37), but I'm at the point now where absolute strength doesn't mean much of anything to me. Relative strength is everything. What's the point of being able to pull 400+ pounds if you throw your back out bending over to tie your shoes? Or get out of breath walking up a flight of stairs?

I think building absolute strength is a young man's game. Early 30s and under. You need that base of strength when you're younger because so many of us particularly as teens are under-muscled. You haven't learned how to control weight in space or use your CNS efficiently. You have to earn the right to ease off of training heavy. But once you've learned how to do it, you don't need to move as much weight to stay strong.

During COVID when all the gyms were closed I didn't lift anything heavier than the pair of 53lb kettlebells I have and I didn't lose an ounce of muscle. My upper back and shoulders were actually thicker than they are now from all of the swings and jerks and whatnot. As we age we need to focus more on maintaining explosive power than maintaining strength. The latter should come pretty easily if you have a good base, but the former can fade quickly if you don't work on it.

When was the last time you threw a med ball? Jumped up on a box? Jumped down from a box? Kicked a soccer ball or threw a football?

My $.02

[coogles]

You do have a point. If you absolutely hammer your glutes or hamstrings first, that’d be a bad thing and reduce stability for sure. But a couple sets of hip thrusts should still leave plenty in the tank for them to do their job as a secondary mover and stabilizer in a squat pattern. Like Dan said, we’re just going for a bit of pre-exhaustion not a full beat down of the muscle.

So maybe that should have been my recommendation to Breh. Before squatting, do one or two light sets of hamstring curls and hip thrusts. Get a little pump going in both muscles and see if it helps your knees.

ATG has this concept that they implement in some of their programs that they call the "squat buy-in". The idea is that the squat trains triple extension - extension at the hip, at the knee, and at the ankle. To balance out a squat, we also need to train triple flexion, starting at the ankle, then the knee, then the hip. Tib raises, hamstring curls, and leg raises, two sets of each, prior to getting under a bar.

I personally love it. You don't need to go heavy on any of these, they should just be done to promote blood flow. Sets in the 20-25 rep range. It's kind of like the Wenning warm-up but in reverse.

[D Griff]

Ultimately if your goal is getting stronger, this is definitely the case IMO.

I just know that I got injuries to my back pursuing this in my late 20s, it seems a bit of a fools errand at 55 which I think Eric has echoed for a while. Maintaining strength, weight, and fitness would likely be my own goal at that point, but there are certainly plenty of dudes out there who are older than that and strong/jacked as hell.

I bulged a disc pretty badly at 21 and kept beating my head against the powerlifting wall for the next 10 years. I'm well short of 55 (37), but I'm at the point now where absolute strength doesn't mean much of anything to me. Relative strength is everything. What's the point of being able to pull 400+ pounds if you throw your back out bending over to tie your shoes? Or get out of breath walking up a flight of stairs?

I think building absolute strength is a young man's game. Early 30s and under. You need that base of strength when you're younger because so many of us particularly as teens are under-muscled. You haven't learned how to control weight in space or use your CNS efficiently. You have to earn the right to ease off of training heavy. But once you've learned how to do it, you don't need to move as much weight to stay strong.

During COVID when all the gyms were closed I didn't lift anything heavier than the pair of 53lb kettlebells I have and I didn't lose an ounce of muscle. My upper back and shoulders were actually thicker than they are now from all of the swings and jerks and whatnot. As we age we need to focus more on maintaining explosive power than maintaining strength. The latter should come pretty easily if you have a good base, but the former can fade quickly if you don't work on it.

When was the last time you threw a med ball? Jumped up on a box? Jumped down from a box? Kicked a soccer ball or threw a football?

My $.02

Well put. And to be fair, I don't want to pile on power lifting, it can be a fun form of training and our bodies are all different and respond to things differently. Definitely food for thought and I do think that variety in training is very beneficial. Hell, in 2021 when I was almost exclusively cycling, my knees were hurting, 2013-2017 or so when I was most into power lifting my back hurt. I feel pretty good now at age 34 with a healthy mix of cycling, running, lifting, and just staying active walking the dog, doing yard work, and other shit.

[Desertbreh]

I can see that. As I have been healing up from some minorish injuries from doing the heavy compound lifts, I have become a fan of drop sets. IE for the uninitiated ( I know you all in this thread prob know the term) I work up to my heavy sets, do them, and then drop the weight by a plate or something to get in some additional volume / stress at a lower weight. In my somewhat limited experience, although I've been training 6+ years now, the stress from moving the big loads is what continues to drive (or for me right now, maintain all the) progress.

Ultimately if your goal is getting stronger, this is definitely the case IMO.

I just know that I got injuries to my back pursuing this in my late 20s, it seems a bit of a fools errand at 55 which I think Eric has echoed for a while. Maintaining strength, weight, and fitness would likely be my own goal at that point, but there are certainly plenty of dudes out there who are older than that and strong/jacked as hell.

Yep. I'd love to pull 405+ but I've let it go. The end of the serious meathead days started in 2019 when 35 years of unracking a steel bar on the back of my neck with over 350 lbs on it finally smashed by C6 and C7 onto a nerve and put me on a couch in a heap for 2 weeks. The post Covid gym work in year 53 and 54 of my life created a need for a stretching and warming up regimen like no other time period. Fried my Sciatic nerve not stretching and warming up properly in February of this year=severely diminished trip to Europe with my kiddo=stupid=dumb priorities. This knee thing may be the beginning of the end of heavy leg work, if not its coming soon. The inevitable sucks, but ignoring it can create some serious potential for injury. If your age starts with a 3 you are nowhere near that so carry on.