Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times

[Gberg2119]

Civic Si and WRX are solid picks I guess. Civic “nicer” WRX “more fun.”
Model 3 might be most depreciation proof really. Still desirable, still top of the pack, only going up in price.

I’m going to make a prediction here but a model 3 while decent is way overpriced. They went from 37 to 47k for the “around town” model and 57k for the “long range” that’s unacceptable in my book and most people can’t afford that shit. And there is nothing “depreciation proof” when you’re paying 6k in taxes. Given my predicted ownershit length that’s the key thing to limit at the moment.

But you can so why does it matter?

There's always the Hyundai/Kia ev's but they're expensive too.

[Gberg2119]

ND Miata?

I would love a Miata but I'm just a little too big to really be comfortable in one, my head touches the ceiling. Also can't really take it to the track, so sadly, they're out.

I actually had a few developments yesterday. My buddy decided against buying the BMW, so for now, it stays. My Carvana offer expires today, but I'm not going to sell the thing and go carless. I placed the deposit for the BRZ order today!

$33,9XX out the door for a red Limited six speed manual. $1K down. December delivery. I can get a full refund on the deposit if I decide not to take delivery for any reason, so if the value of the BMW somehow becomes $8K or something, I may bail. Unfortunately I can't lock in the 2.9% APR at this time, but the thinks they will have financing that's similar if not the same.

[max225]

I’m going to make a prediction here but a model 3 while decent is way overpriced. They went from 37 to 47k for the “around town” model and 57k for the “long range” that’s unacceptable in my book and most people can’t afford that shit. And there is nothing “depreciation proof” when you’re paying 6k in taxes. Given my predicted ownershit length that’s the key thing to limit at the moment.

Yeah tax kills it. Price won’t go down though so there’s that.

Hm. I wanna say used and somewhat fuel efficient but I don’t think the used market has cooled enough yet.

Yea used you have to go really old outside of that “carvana” window. And at that point you’re likely buying someone else’s headache and you clearly won’t be able to offload quickly and with minimal cost. So … new is the only way to go imo (at sticker) which clearly isn’t easy.

[max225]

I’m going to make a prediction here but a model 3 while decent is way overpriced. They went from 37 to 47k for the “around town” model and 57k for the “long range” that’s unacceptable in my book and most people can’t afford that shit. And there is nothing “depreciation proof” when you’re paying 6k in taxes. Given my predicted ownershit length that’s the key thing to limit at the moment.

But you can so why does it matter?

There's always the Hyundai/Kia ev's but they're expensive too.

Because I’m looking to minimize costs. I could keep the X if I gave 0 shits about what’s about to happen. I’m not wired that way.

[max225]

I’m going to make a prediction here but a model 3 while decent is way overpriced. They went from 37 to 47k for the “around town” model and 57k for the “long range” that’s unacceptable in my book and most people can’t afford that shit. And there is nothing “depreciation proof” when you’re paying 6k in taxes. Given my predicted ownershit length that’s the key thing to limit at the moment.

Yeah tax kills it. Price won’t go down though so there’s that.

Hm. I wanna say used and somewhat fuel efficient but I don’t think the used market has cooled enough yet.

I think the used teslas selling above msrp is coming to an end very soon. One of the offers I got on the X was 30k below where carmax has it valued … let that sink in .. an entire civic lost in 2k miles

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Yeah tax kills it. Price won’t go down though so there’s that.

Hm. I wanna say used and somewhat fuel efficient but I don’t think the used market has cooled enough yet.

I think the used teslas selling above msrp is coming to an end very soon. One of the offers I got on the X was 30k below where carmax has it valued … let that sink in .. an entire civic lost in 2k miles

Volatility like that is not a good sign...

[max225]

No interest in that…

It's just an Si hatchback with a nicer interior.

I kind of hate the integra with a passion because it’s literally a civic. There is nothing that makes it better, imo. And it starts at 4K more and goes up to 10k above the si, for no added power etc. Honda really gives 0 fucks about the Acura brand

[D Griff]

No depreciation, ride out the downturn? Something doesn't really seem to match up here.

You could go used with something special like an E55 AMG as those are on the up swing, pay slightly over sticker for a Si, or pay $75k for a RS3 that will be worth $65k in 3 years with 40k miles on it.

Seems to be pretty clear goal. I’ll use the pre plandemic depreciation schedules, and civic SI, and lower trim wrxs were some of the lowest depreciating cars one can get.

No interest in a golf RR ie rs3, and no way can I get one without markup and no way will I drive that 15k miles a year with 0fg, just makes no sense. It’s too expensive to own.

E55 amg will get what ? 15mpg? We’re still at $6 a gallon here while I do expect that to go down, the operating costs of an E55 will be tremendously high. While undoubtedly a cool car it’s just not fitting the need.

I think his point is rising tides raise all ships, the reverse is also true. If the economy truly shits the bed, every car, especially ones that are 'unnecessary', will drop somewhat. By that logic, I'd seek something out that is the LEAST overpriced right now. Basically, this leaves you with your list WRX, Si, GR86/BRZ at MSRP. That said, if no one is buying the new WRX because it's just that Fugly, I don't see how it will somehow become more desirable on the secondary market. If there are 20 on the lot now, how many will there be if shit hits the fan? And how much cash on the hood then.

I'm in a similar boat here with the BRZ and I fully expect that either things will stay the same and it'll be worth $35K somehow but then any replacement will be way overpriced or there will be cash on the hood of new ones in the event of a market change, and mine will become worth $22K really quickly.

I think the Si is 100% your car here. It isn't fugly/unwanted like the new WRX and it's historically strong and very cheap by modern standards at sub $30K. It seemingly is a great Civic Si so it should follow historical low depreciation curves. It will have MSRP creep so that will help. Each percent it drops will be less dollhairs because it's the cheapest. If an Integra manual is real world cheaper than an Si that would be decent as well but I have a hard time seeing why it's $8K more.

A SS is also a great idea but you'd probably be paying 50% over your 'budget'.

I would just try to get something that isn't valued right now and know that it will drop some if shit hits the fan, if not, whatever.

Maybe go back to the just an M2? I think they can be had for $40K or so which seems decent enough. I don't see them dumping down to $25K or anything regardless.

[max225]

I think the used teslas selling above msrp is coming to an end very soon. One of the offers I got on the X was 30k below where carmax has it valued … let that sink in .. an entire civic lost in 2k miles

Volatility like that is not a good sign...

Yea, painting is on the wall. Current inflation numbers at 9% are nothing to sneeze at either. We’re 1-3 months away from the first round of major lay offs. And after that … good luck everyone

[Desertbreh]

No depreciation, ride out the downturn? Something doesn't really seem to match up here.

You could go used with something special like an E55 AMG as those are on the up swing, pay slightly over sticker for a Si, or pay $75k for a RS3 that will be worth $65k in 3 years with 40k miles on it.

Seems to be pretty clear goal. I’ll use the pre plandemic depreciation schedules, and civic SI, and lower trim wrxs were some of the lowest depreciating cars one can get.

No interest in a golf RR ie rs3, and no way can I get one without markup and no way will I drive that 15k miles a year with 0fg, just makes no sense. It’s too expensive to own.

E55 amg will get what ? 15mpg? We’re still at $6 a gallon here while I do expect that to go down, the operating costs of an E55 will be tremendously high. While undoubtedly a cool car it’s just not fitting the need.

I'm not going to engage in trying to suggest a better idea than the Si. Go drive one! Has a bit of appeal for myself truthfully, as kid who sat in by step brother's brand new 80 hp 1982 Honda Accord hatchback and was amazed by the tactile sensations that were so simple yet so much better than most American piles of that era........I have full respect for the simple manual Honda. 1.5 earth dreams YO! Six speed, decent seats, presumably decent brakes...........I should try one myself.

[max225]

Seems to be pretty clear goal. I’ll use the pre plandemic depreciation schedules, and civic SI, and lower trim wrxs were some of the lowest depreciating cars one can get.

No interest in a golf RR ie rs3, and no way can I get one without markup and no way will I drive that 15k miles a year with 0fg, just makes no sense. It’s too expensive to own.

E55 amg will get what ? 15mpg? We’re still at $6 a gallon here while I do expect that to go down, the operating costs of an E55 will be tremendously high. While undoubtedly a cool car it’s just not fitting the need.

I'm not going to engage in trying to suggest a better idea than the Si. Go drive one! Has a bit of appeal for myself truthfully, as kid who sat in by step brother's brand new 80 hp 1982 Honda Accord hatchback and was amazed by the tactile sensations that were so simple yet so much better than most American piles of that era........I have full respect for the simple manual Honda. 1.5 earth dreams YO! Six speed, decent seats, presumably decent brakes...........I should try one myself.

And a 580 stereo. It has eveything I need. I don’t even care about driving one… I just want to buy one. This isn’t some sort of prized possession. Just need something to pump and dump that won’t make me want to blow my brains out.

Although getting a high schoolers car isn’t exactly ideal it’ll do for now.

[Desertbreh]

Seems like Blazing Orange Pearl is the way.

[max225]

Seems like Blazing Orange Pearl is the way.

No sir, it’ll be desperation gray or blue. Blue is preferred.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Seems like Blazing Orange Pearl is the way.

The ONLY way.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Seems like Blazing Orange Pearl is the way.

No sir, it’ll be desperation gray or blue. Blue is preferred.

It's a 5/7 color.

[max225]

No sir, it’ll be desperation gray or blue. Blue is preferred.

It's a 5/7 color.

This would be ideal. I am going to reach out to a local dealer today.

For anyone curious about the X
110k Vroom offer
125k carvana
130k Land Rover dealer
135k random private party who is not serious
140k carmax
These list for 149,995 minimum with most at 160k

I want out NOW. And not look back

[Gberg2119]

It's a 5/7 color.

This would be ideal. I am going to reach out to a local dealer today.

For anyone curious about the X
110k Vroom offer
125k carvana
130k Land Rover dealer
135k random private party who is not serious
140k carmax
These list for 149,995 minimum with most at 160k

I want out NOW. And not look back

So what will be your total ownershit time on with the X? A month? Is this the shortest time between ?

[Johnny_P]

I support the decision here. Seems reasonable. Future depreciation is hard to gauge but these seem to be desirable right now so go for it.

Find someone selling at MSRP and send it.

[max225]

This would be ideal. I am going to reach out to a local dealer today.

For anyone curious about the X
110k Vroom offer
125k carvana
130k Land Rover dealer
135k random private party who is not serious
140k carmax
These list for 149,995 minimum with most at 160k

I want out NOW. And not look back

So what will be your total ownershit time on with the X? A month? Is this the shortest time between ?

2 months just like the model S

[wap]

There a pics/vid on the lot

https://www.diablosubaru.com/new/Subaru ... 1f625a.htm

The main concern I have here is mpg, these are atrocious compared to an si.

You really want a poverty spec WRX with those yuuuge bezels around the infotainment?

Yeah, that's pretty

[max225]

You really want a poverty spec WRX with those yuuuge bezels around the infotainment?

Yeah, that's pretty

Hmm … what’s the other one look like? I mean does any of it reaaaaly matter ? I thought the Subaru UI was shit either way

[Gberg2119]

New Hype R leaked. Looks great. Wish it were attainable.

[wap]

Yeah, that's pretty

Hmm … what’s the other one look like? I mean does any of it reaaaaly matter ? I thought the Subaru UI was shit either way

I think this is it. , :Doe:

[max225]

New Hype R leaked. Looks great. Wish it were attainable.

Kinda, I will never understand the nature of this car. Like it’s not really stealth enough to be a good dd, and it’s way too expensive for a DD. But it’s positioned as such. So it’s really perplexing

[max225]

Hmm … what’s the other one look like? I mean does any of it reaaaaly matter ? I thought the Subaru UI was shit either way

I think this is it. , :Doe:

After 20” screens in the Tessies that are faster than the most modern phones. Anything is a downgrade. I really don’t want anything out of it other than the CarPlay…

To be honest my ideal spec is a premium + HK. But that’s creeping to 35k, and limited is more like 39k… if I wanted some leather. Price creep is super strong.

Whereas the si is one and done