Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times

[Gberg2119]

The model needs to die asap.

[Desertbreh]

They're selling for about $240k-$250k used

Free markets yo! If you were a H1 or H2 groupie this is must have stuff and since your porta poddy business nets 5.4M/year buying you offshore racing boats, numerous boob jobs, and even more numerous child support payments, this is essential, take my money.

[Johnny_P]

Y’all read about the Ford Bronco dropping valves and grenading the 2.7 motors?

Also apparently the ranger is experiencing fuel in oil issues.
https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/ ... poll.6162/

There are a lot of threads popping up on various forums about dilution issues on these engines.

Ford quality going down the toilet or something?

[max225]

Y’all read about the Ford Bronco dropping valves and grenading the 2.7 motors?

Also apparently the ranger is experiencing fuel in oil issues.
https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/ ... poll.6162/

There are a lot of threads popping up on various forums about dilution issues on these engines.

Ford quality going down the toilet or something?

The 2.7 issue has been pretty well known. It’s isolated to a batch of Valves… apparently it’s been fixed since.

But yea shit happens …

[CaleDeRoo]

Y’all read about the Ford Bronco dropping valves and grenading the 2.7 motors?

Also apparently the ranger is experiencing fuel in oil issues.
https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/ ... poll.6162/

There are a lot of threads popping up on various forums about dilution issues on these engines.

Ford quality going down the toilet or something?

My friend's Ranger has the fuel/oil issue. He ain't care and put 30k on it this year.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Y’all read about the Ford Bronco dropping valves and grenading the 2.7 motors?

Also apparently the ranger is experiencing fuel in oil issues.
https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/ ... poll.6162/

There are a lot of threads popping up on various forums about dilution issues on these engines.

Ford quality going down the toilet or something?

It's just Ferd. You know they suck.

[Johnny_P]

Y’all read about the Ford Bronco dropping valves and grenading the 2.7 motors?

Also apparently the ranger is experiencing fuel in oil issues.
https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/ ... poll.6162/

There are a lot of threads popping up on various forums about dilution issues on these engines.

Ford quality going down the toilet or something?

It's just Ferd. You know they suck.

What is it about Ford that’s causing this? Since you have some insider info. Is it a company culture thing, or just the engineers they have working for them?

Ford is capable of great products for sure, they just tend to mess up key items on nearly everything. I’m almost certain the Bronco launch disaster was due to the product having problems and simply not being ready.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

It's just Ferd. You know they suck.

What is it about Ford that’s causing this? Since you have some insider info. Is it a company culture thing, or just the engineers they have working for them?

Ford is capable of great products for sure, they just tend to mess up key items on nearly everything. I’m almost certain the Bronco launch disaster was due to the product having problems and simply not being ready.

Ford can't launch a product for some reason. Every big launch over the last 10 years has been messed up in some major way. Launching a new product is indeed quite difficult, but they clearly have some learning to do. I think it comes down to managing build complexity. When we launched the new Grand Cherokee (which seemed to go pretty well), we set a cadence for increasing build complexity. For the first few months, the plant only built like 8 different combinations to manage different parts, suppliers, and get the plant up to speed. Build counts doubled from 8 to 16 the next few months and so on until full product availability. GM does the same thing. I'm not sure Ford does, it appears that they just try to blast everything out all at once on day one, and that's where little issues start to pop up.

The engine issues are odd, but no OEM is immune TBH. GM has had their issues with the 3.6, 8-speed, and earlier DoD engines. Even king Toyota has had some Turbro issues with the new Tundra. Modern engines are just so damned complex, and a lot of product requirements are contradictory (make it powerful, light, durable, cheap) and sometimes decisions skew more toward cheap or light or whatever and end up having consequences when built in volume. Almost everything is designed on a computer now, and IRL testing is limited to hand-built test engines with flawless parts. Build at scale, and issues can pop up. Again, Ford seems to have the hardest time with this (Powershit Transmission, 2.7 Bronco issues, the FoRS head gasket issue, Chinese glass manual Mustang issue, etc). Culture probably has something to do with it, which I've heard is similar to Stellanus where mgmt tells you to do something and you do it no questions asked. So "drop 10% of the cost of the engine" and the engineer will do it, even it it means sacrificing quality because they just want the mgmt off their backs. I saw it all the time.

Stellanus hasn't introduced a new major powertrain in decades. The ones they have haven't been great. The 9 speed in the Cherokee remains a disaster, and I'm shocked that issues haven't started emerging with the PHEV Wrangler (development of that was a shitshow). on the new TT I6, that has high potential of being a trainwreck as it's been on again off again internally for almost 10 years now (It was "dead and burried" when I left last year, now it's back).

[Johnny_P]

Interesting thought on the build complexity. I hadn’t considered ramp up of that but it could cause issues for sure.

But that wouldn’t really account for delamination of the tops, or the dropped valves, or the 2.3 oil dilution. That’s either assembly quality, part durability, supplier issue, something like that.

I guess if the culture is as you described and as you saw at Stellanus then maybe that’s the prime culprit. I saw a bunch of stuff on forums saying Mulally was forcing products out instead of making them durable. So that kind of coincides with what you suggested.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Interesting thought on the build complexity. I hadn’t considered ramp up of that but it could cause issues for sure.

But that wouldn’t really account for delamination of the tops, or the dropped valves, or the 2.3 oil dilution. That’s either assembly quality, part durability, supplier issue, something like that.

I guess if the culture is as you described and as you saw at Stellanus then maybe that’s the prime culprit. I saw a bunch of stuff on forums saying Mulally was forcing products out instead of making them durable. So that kind of coincides with what you suggested.

The Wrangler PHEV was supposed to launch 8 months earlier than it did. Engineering was having trouble with calibration and durability of some components. They hired a new CEO for Jeep, and the guy threw a tantrum about the PHEV being late and demanded it ship within a quarter "or else". Engineering had all these emergency meetings to determine priorities for fixing issues and determine what they had to address and what they could let go. When that happens, things will be missed and development processes will be circumvented. on PHEV Wranglers

I know the Bronco was late. I was also friends with the hardtop engineer for the Wrangler and when he saw the Bronco hard top he said immediately "they're going to have a lot of issues with this thing". He knew the supplier and said they were hard to work with, and they made design calls that they tried to do on Jeeps in the past that failed for various reasons. I'm sure Farley or someone up high threw a tantrum about the Bronco and it was forced out with compromises that bite them. Friends I have at Ferd say Farley is a tyrant similar to Stellanus. Nothing good will come from that.

[coogles]

The GR86 is supposed to arrive next week.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

The GR86 is supposed to arrive next week.

[wap]

The GR86 is supposed to arrive next week.

[coogles]

[max225]

Yaaaas ! What about the ? You’re getting it at sticker ?

[coogles]

Yaaaas ! What about the ? You’re getting it at sticker ?

Yep, MSRP. Still has to go through PDI, should be ready to pick up Tuesday-ish.

[max225]

Yaaaas ! What about the ? You’re getting it at sticker ?

Yep, MSRP. Still has to go through PDI, should be ready to pick up Tuesday-ish.

Who shot that pic ? ?

I forget did you sell your other car or will this be an addition?

[coogles]

Who shot that pic ? ?

I forget did you sell your other car or will this be an addition?

Salesbro took that pic this morning.

The '86 will be immediately going off for PPF and tint, and once I get it back I'm going to off the GTI to Carvana. An Odyssey will join the fleet in late August or September. I have a 2023 EX-L on order as well, but that was more of a backup plan in case I can't find a decent used one.

[Johnny_P]

Looks nice in that color!

[coogles]

Looks nice in that color!

I think so too. Everyone has a for Neptune but I'm super happy with Trueno. Would've taken either, but I'm not the least bit upset that Trueno is the color they got the allocation for.

[fledonfoot]

Looks nice in that color!

I think so too. Everyone has a for Neptune but I'm super happy with Trueno. Would've taken either, but I'm not the least bit upset that Trueno is the color they got the allocation for.

We had a work event last week which included a near 150 mile backroad blast to a brunch event.

I promise you that you’re going to love this car. It’s sublime. It takes everything that the first car lacked and fixes it… you can drive it at 9 or 10 tenths and still be in the realm of legality everywhere.

Short of a 718 Spyder it might be the most fun car I’ve ever driven. I’m 9100 miles in already and it continues to be a blast.

The dark blue is awesome. I love it and probably should have gone that way. Congrats.

[coogles]

We had a work event last week which included a near 150 mile backroad blast to a brunch event.

I promise you that you’re going to love this car. It’s sublime. It takes everything that the first car lacked and fixes it… you can drive it at 9 or 10 tenths and still be in the realm of legality everywhere.

Short of a 718 Spyder it might be the most fun car I’ve ever driven. I’m 9100 miles in already and it continues to be a blast.

The dark blue is awesome. I love it and probably should have gone that way. Congrats.

Reading things like this makes me feel better. Gotta admit, there's a not-insignificant part of me that is about ditching the GTI. I had all of these plans to modify the thing before I even signed the papers for it, but after we found out kid #2 was twins that all went out the window. I've been in a holding pattern for 2.5 years as far as my car situation, just driving the GTI stock and enjoying it for what it is, but there's a sense of unfinished business there. I always wanted to know what this car would feel like with a tune and bit of suspension work, and I have zero doubt I'd be really happy with it that way. That said I'd be an absolute moron not to make the move for what in two months will be exclusively a toy. I'm definitely looking forward to getting behind the wheel and having my first RWD car. No doubt it'll be a ton of fun.

Neptune is amazing too, and it'll probably be the color that helps your car keeps its value better than others. I wouldn't sweat it one bit.

[wap]

[Huckleberry]

Noice.

That's a very nice shade of blue. Be sure to post some Go-Pro footage of you carving some back roads.

[fledonfoot]

My dealership group held its 12th annual road rally with about 120 miles of driving across southeastern PA. I snagged a spot alongside some nice sheetmetal. Wifey has no idea how to shoot/film cars but put this together after the event.