OT XXX: COVID Off Topic

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Bender
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:44 am

The off topic covid thread. Keep it civil. I'll have a heavy hand here.

No conspiracy theory bullshit, if you aren't sure, source your material.
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Tarspin
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:07 pm

I will be in and out of OT today, but would love to start the discussion on a positive note... in cases where a patient is feeling like they need medical attention has anyone on the forum heard of a drug/supplement that is effective in reducing the symptoms at this point?

Ideas presented so far are a refreshing tall glass of bleach :thankstrump: , but I'm :notsure:

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Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:42 pm

Is it more deadly than the flu ? Chances of death post contraction.

Facts only, real question.

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Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:55 pm

max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:42 pm
Is it more deadly than the flu ? Chances of death post contraction.

Facts only, real question.
I have read that some people are hit with inflammation of the heart and lungs, blood clotting, and/or a similar phenomenon to Kawasaki disease in young kids. One guy who had it twice says he was asymptomatic completely the second time so to me it sounds like it depends a lot on how a person's body reacts to it, maybe based on if their immune system knows how to :dealwithit:

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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:08 pm

max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:42 pm
Is it more deadly than the flu ? Chances of death post contraction.

Facts only, real question.
Far far far more deadly.

Current COVID mortality rate is about 4% and a "bad" flu season is about 0.1%
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max225
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:11 pm

Bender wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:08 pm
max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:42 pm
Is it more deadly than the flu ? Chances of death post contraction.

Facts only, real question.
Far far far more deadly.

Current COVID mortality rate is about 4% and a "bad" flu season is about 0.1%
Can you back up that 4% with facts? This would require proper sample sizing of everyone who's gotten it, as the official Covid infection number is off by a factor of 4-10
Last edited by max225 on Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bender
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:11 pm

Tarspin wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:55 pm
max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:42 pm
Is it more deadly than the flu ? Chances of death post contraction.

Facts only, real question.
I have read that some people are hit with inflammation of the heart and lungs, blood clotting, and/or a similar phenomenon to Kawasaki disease in young kids. One guy who had it twice says he was asymptomatic completely the second time so to me it sounds like it depends a lot on how a person's body reacts to it, maybe based on if their immune system knows how to :dealwithit:
This is also really important to note. When you are over the flu it's gone. That's it. This is leaving lots of lingering health impacts. COVID is an inflammatory disease as well as a respiratory one. Inflammation causes lots of really damaging shit. It'll take us decades to understand.the long term impacts.
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Bender
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:16 pm

max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:11 pm
Bender wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:08 pm


Far far far more deadly.

Current COVID mortality rate is about 4% and a "bad" flu season is about 0.1%
Can you back up that 4% with facts? This would require proper sample sizing of everyone who's gotten it, as the official Covid infection number is off by a factor of 4-10
Your assumption is incorrect as we don't do that sizing with the flu either. In fact, as a percentage far more symptomatic people are tested for COVID than the flu. So, while both might be over stated, it's far more overstated with the flu than with COVID.

To say otherwise is conspiracy. Period. And I'll delete it.

Have fun learning. The CDC is truly a decent source too but since you don't believe it I give you an alternative.

https://www.nejm.org/coronavirus
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Bender
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:19 pm

To be very clear, everyone needs facts here. If you want to punch holes in facts, you need to provide facts from a reputable source (i.e. peer reviewed journal)
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:26 pm

Bender wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:16 pm
max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:11 pm


Can you back up that 4% with facts? This would require proper sample sizing of everyone who's gotten it, as the official Covid infection number is off by a factor of 4-10
Your assumption is incorrect as we don't do that sizing with the flu either. In fact, as a percentage far more symptomatic people are tested for COVID than the flu. So, while both might be over stated, it's far more overstated with the flu than with COVID.

To say otherwise is conspiracy. Period. And I'll delete it.

Have fun learning. The CDC is truly a decent source too but since you don't believe it I give you an alternative.

https://www.nejm.org/coronavirus
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracke ... rveillance

Quote with facts. According to the CDC our infection rate is 9X higher than actual case count.

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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:30 pm

max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:26 pm
Bender wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:16 pm


Your assumption is incorrect as we don't do that sizing with the flu either. In fact, as a percentage far more symptomatic people are tested for COVID than the flu. So, while both might be over stated, it's far more overstated with the flu than with COVID.

To say otherwise is conspiracy. Period. And I'll delete it.

Have fun learning. The CDC is truly a decent source too but since you don't believe it I give you an alternative.

https://www.nejm.org/coronavirus
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracke ... rveillance

Quote with facts. According to the CDC our infection rate is 9X higher than actual case count.
Anddddd? Did you look at my links at all? This takes no perspective into account (nor should it, but your question requires perspective).
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:31 pm

Make sure to go through all those NEJM articles. Pretty excellent stuff from a non-government source
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:31 pm

Bender wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:30 pm
max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:26 pm


https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracke ... rveillance

Quote with facts. According to the CDC our infection rate is 9X higher than actual case count.
Anddddd? Did you look at my links at all? This takes no perspective into account (nor should it, but your question requires perspective).
I didn't because you disregarded my question. You quoted a 4% death rate, which i provided further facts to, as it seems :wrong: (provided link).

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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:35 pm

I am here for the mask on gang bang
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:35 pm

max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:31 pm
Bender wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:30 pm


Anddddd? Did you look at my links at all? This takes no perspective into account (nor should it, but your question requires perspective).
I didn't because you disregarded my question. You quoted a 4% death rate, which I have no back up for because your base is completely wrong, (provided link).

Bruh. If you're going to use the CDC, learn how to read the data.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/covid-19.htm

All you can go on is the reported rates, the same errors exist for the flu as covid and are likely HIGHER in the flu. COVID is approximately 40x as deadly. Period. This isnt up for debate here. It's not up for debate anywhere frankly, but people love to lie.
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:38 pm

Bender wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:35 pm
max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:31 pm


I didn't because you disregarded my question. You quoted a 4% death rate, which I have no back up for because your base is completely wrong, (provided link).

Bruh. If you're going to use the CDC, learn how to read the data.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/covid-19.htm

All you can go on is the reported rates, the same errors exist for the flu as covid and are likely HIGHER in the flu. COVID is approximately 40x as deadly. Period. This isnt up for debate here. It's not up for debate anywhere frankly, but people love to lie.
I read data for a living. So I'd like for you to explain to me how the 4% death rate works when the actual infection rate is 9x higher than the reported rate as per my earlier quoted link.

And yes this is obviously up for debate.

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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:39 pm

max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:38 pm
Bender wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:35 pm


Bruh. If you're going to use the CDC, learn how to read the data.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/covid-19.htm

All you can go on is the reported rates, the same errors exist for the flu as covid and are likely HIGHER in the flu. COVID is approximately 40x as deadly. Period. This isnt up for debate here. It's not up for debate anywhere frankly, but people love to lie.
I read data for a living. So I'd like for you to explain to me how the 4% death rate works when the actual infection rate is 9x higher than the reported rate as per my earlier quoted link.

And yes this is obviously up for debate.
You don't work in the medical field, rates are calculated on diagnosed cases. Period.
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max225
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:45 pm

Bender wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:39 pm
max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:38 pm


I read data for a living. So I'd like for you to explain to me how the 4% death rate works when the actual infection rate is 9x higher than the reported rate as per my earlier quoted link.

And yes this is obviously up for debate.
You don't work in the medical field, rates are calculated on diagnosed cases. Period.
So if someone was not diagnosed with it, it becomes irrelevant because a non diagnosed infection doesn't exist? Great logic to follow.

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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:53 pm

max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:45 pm
Bender wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:39 pm


You don't work in the medical field, rates are calculated on diagnosed cases. Period.
So if someone was not diagnosed with it, it becomes irrelevant because a non diagnosed infection doesn't exist? Great logic to follow.
That's how medical death rates work, flu and COVID and everything else. You know how people used to die of "natural causes" all the time back in the day then all of a sudden everyone died of cancer and heart attacks?

We know about 4% of diagnosed cases of COVID result in death. We know that less than .1% of diagnosed cases of flu result in death. We also know that for both there are a large number of cases undiagnosed and some deaths that are missed, that's irrelevant to how they do mortality rates of cases (you're welcome to think this is a bad system but it's the same system for cancer and covid and everything else). What it does tell us is the comparatively deadliness of different diseases, not the specific run rate of deaths. On that comparative basis we know COVID is approximately 40x as deadly as the flu.
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max225
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:55 pm

Bender wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:53 pm
max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:45 pm


So if someone was not diagnosed with it, it becomes irrelevant because a non diagnosed infection doesn't exist? Great logic to follow.
That's how medical death rates work, flu and COVID and everything else. You know how people used to die of "natural causes" all the time back in the day then all of a sudden everyone died of cancer and heart attacks?

We know about 4% of diagnosed cases of COVID result in death. We know that less than .1% of diagnosed cases of flu result in death. We also know that for both there are a large number of cases undiagnosed and some deaths that are missed, that's irrelevant to how they do mortality rates of cases (you're welcome to think this is a bad system but it's the same system for cancer and covid and everything else). What it does tell us is the comparatively deadliness of different diseases, not the specific run rate of deaths. On that comparative basis we know COVID is approximately 40x as deadly as the flu.
Can't confirm or deny your assumption on the 40X as deadly. It seems like we need more time to further understand the final tally, as the unknowns can skew the data by enormous correction factors.
Last edited by max225 on Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:55 pm

Image

Can we not do this, yet again?
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Bender
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:58 pm

max225 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:55 pm
Bender wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:53 pm


That's how medical death rates work, flu and COVID and everything else. You know how people used to die of "natural causes" all the time back in the day then all of a sudden everyone died of cancer and heart attacks?

We know about 4% of diagnosed cases of COVID result in death. We know that less than .1% of diagnosed cases of flu result in death. We also know that for both there are a large number of cases undiagnosed and some deaths that are missed, that's irrelevant to how they do mortality rates of cases (you're welcome to think this is a bad system but it's the same system for cancer and covid and everything else). What it does tell us is the comparatively deadliness of different diseases, not the specific run rate of deaths. On that comparative basis we know COVID is approximately 40x as deadly as the flu.
Can't confirm or deny your assumption on the 40X as deadly. It seems like we need more time to confirm or deny that statement as the unknowns can skew the data by enormous correction factors.
That's another place medical data is so very different than other data in that it changes over time. It's safe to say that flu to covid delta will probably close over time, but no matter what the fact that it is SIGNIFICANTLY more deadly then the flu won't change a ton (it might "only" be 20x when we look at the data in two years, for example).
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:59 pm

Melon wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:55 pm
Image

Can we not do this, yet again?
Created to not clutter OT and so people can ignore if they wish.
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:01 pm

Y'all aren't being dicks.

I saw this heading down the path of yet another covid argument.
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Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:28 am

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Don't discuss things you want on here.

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