DFD

The recent return of a few of our inactive members...... made me want to share something that has been on my mind for a while.....

And I didn't want to pollute either [user not found]'s or the Covid thread with this.....


I believe that most rational people are closer to center than they realize.

Sure we all have our hot button issues, but ultimately only people on the extremes can't find at least some common ground....

I also believe we, as a people, are being brutally and brutishly manipulated by the media (social and otherwise) and that propaganda has come back hard...

I refuse to be whipped up into a frenzy by anything fed to me on television or online...

I consider myself similar to what Desertbreh extolled a while back (and forgive me Eric, I am paraphrasing) as left leaning on social issues and right leaning on fiscal. (Yes, I know there is inherent conflict here because social programs cost money but it is still how I feel....).

I was raised to be more conservative than where I have grown to be over time. I say "grown" because I fell that as the years have gone by I have realized that I am happier as a person when I am putting the needs of others before my own. This likely stems from my spiritual journey towards sobriety where I HAD to learn to stop being so damn self centered. (I promise that am not insinuating anything here, simply talking about my own experiences).

My old man was an Archie Bunker bigot. Meaning working class white, who had a lot of unearned prejudice against anything "other". He did not preach any true racism (read: hatred) but he definitely had some unsubstantiated dislike for other races.

When I was 17, I was attending an all white, rural high school. Because there were no real part time job opportunities and because my father was a WW2 vet and I grew up on John Wayne patriotism, I joined the Army reserve. I did Active Duty Basic Training in the summer between my Junior and Senior year. I was thrust into a melting pot of ethnicity in my platoon and I learned, first hand, that you can never judge book by its cover.

I basically grew into a man that summer and it all but ruined my senior year in high school because I was much more serious dude when I got back.

But it was my second summer during AIT (Advanced Individual Training) where my more diverse worldview was solidified.

The platoon consisted of about 20 guys from Massachusetts that joined as a group from their high school and the majority of them were African American.

These guys were articulate and mostly college bound while the majority of the rest of the platoon were poor whites from the south and the midwest. Talk about subverted expectations! Anyway as you can imagine, I felt myself drawn to the Massachusetts group more so than the "white trash" and thus was given a great lesson in open mindedness that has stuck with me to this day. No not all the other guys were trash, I used that term specifically to lampshade the "expectations" that I grew up with. Namely that the blacks would be the low life's and the whites would be automatically better somehow. The truth was the exact opposite in this particular situation. In my life experience I have found that there are fine people and lowlifes in every color and creed.

I still spent most of my 20's and 30's on the "right" side of things..... but I was always pro choice and I didn't have strong opinions on much else.

But when I was 39 I "got sober" through a 12 step program and I adopted a much more "helpful to others" kind of lifestyle. This opened me up to seeing injustice's and being more empathetic towards people with less.

I have slowly gotten over my prejudices towards LGTBQ. (Thankfully, as it turns out I have some people of this "orientation" in my family)

I truly believe that a country as "rich" as we are should have programs in place to assure that no child goes hungry.

I believe it should be harder to get firearms but not impossible and that law abiding gun owners should be willing to jump through hoops that would potentially stop the crazies from getting them and shooting up our schools. Its not about them, its about the kids.

I believe that there are ways to meet in the middle on many issues.

I believe that certain things are truly in need of reform..... healthcare, policing, public safety.

I do not believe there are any easy answers and I do not believe either side of our two party system has them. I think the answers lie in the middle and when they don't, that the compromise has to benefit the most people.

I supported Reagan and Bush Sr And only later realized that they (especially Ronnie) actually did some serious economic damage in the form of deregulating Wall Street. My views began to change with Dubya, I really felt he was under qualified but I was also less than thrilled with Bill. (And really disliked and distrusted Hillary from day 1). I really liked Obama and really thought it was time for non-white president. He disappointed me with not getting as much change done as he promised but no more so than anyone else. The president has far less influence and power than most people think.

I am thoroughly appalled that 50% of the nation elected a POS like Trump. I grew up in the greater NYC area where he had long been known as an egotistical, womanizing, corrupt blowhard. He is NOT a successful business man and He IS an elitist, racist pig.

He has a subpar intelligence except where manipulation and branding come in. In those he is a genius.

He tapped into an undercurrent of racism, fear of outsiders and disdain for the Washington establishment.

I too, suffered from that last item. I would have likely welcomed a true Washington outsider with a truly good business acumen.

But this guy really was neither. He simply made his own swamp and filled it with family and friends.

I also believe that Hillary was un-electable and so Trump ended up with a lot more votes than if the democrats has had put up just about anybody else.

In summary, I am just an average guy who has developed a lean towards the left later in his life. I want us to get along as a country. I don't hate the republican party (Although I am not happy with its current state of fealty to you know who). I am fine with republican presidents who have the best interests of the people of this country at heart..... but I pray that we never again elect a sociopathic, narcissistic megalomaniac that further divides us.

troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:16 pm

TURBRO EDIT: I went much further than I originally intended to. My original intent was just to say that I think we have more common ground than we think and that I, for one, am much more "center" than I thought based on the more objective political leanings charts. (Which I will dig up and post later).

How about you? If you are so inclined please use this thread to "plead" your case on why and how you lean the way you do. Or use it for anything political that doesn't seam to fit anywhere else on the forum. I am aiming for inclusivity here, my friends. Jump in, the water is fine.

I think the seeds of division are not necessarily planted by bad foreign actors but they are definitely adding fuel to this fire to drive us apart (China, Russia, and literally any country that benefits when we are weak).



There are things I agree with Republicunts about. There are things I agree with Democrats about.

We need more than two parties running politics.

We need term limits on Congress.

razr390 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:16 pm I think the seeds of division are not necessarily planted by bad foreign actors but they are definitely adding fuel to this fire to drive us apart (China, Russia, and literally any country that benefits when we are weak).



There are things I agree with Republicunts about. There are things I agree with Democrats about.

We need more than two parties running politics.

We need term limits on Congress.

I can get behind everything you expressed here, Mahrudy.

razr390 wrote:I think the seeds of division are not necessarily planted by bad foreign actors but they are definitely adding fuel to this fire to drive us apart (China, Russia, and literally any country that benefits when we are weak).



There are things I agree with Republicunts about. There are things I agree with Democrats about.

We need more than two parties running politics.

We need term limits on Congress.

I used to think that term limits were the answer, but in truth that just means that politicians would be directly bankrolled by corporate interests instead of indirectly... When you can have a whole career in politics, in theory that gives you a slightly nonzero chance at being independent and actually governing rationally. Having to earn a living in corporate America ensures that you will vote for whatever keeps that corporate living alive.

troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:36 pm

razr390 wrote:I think the seeds of division are not necessarily planted by bad foreign actors but they are definitely adding fuel to this fire to drive us apart (China, Russia, and literally any country that benefits when we are weak).



There are things I agree with Republicunts about. There are things I agree with Democrats about.

We need more than two parties running politics.

We need term limits on Congress.

I used to think that term limits were the answer, but in truth that just means that politicians would be directly bankrolled by corporate interests instead of indirectly... When you can have a whole career in politics, in theory that gives you a slightly nonzero chance at being independent and actually governing rationally. Having to earn a living in corporate America ensures that you will vote for whatever keeps that corporate living alive.

I think that the campaign finance system needs to be heavily regulated....... I don't know when exactly it became the wild west but it is ridiculous...... Our elected officials need to be held to the highest of ethical standards when it comes to this.... complete transparency should be the norm not the exception....

Irish wrote:

troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:36 pm I used to think that term limits were the answer, but in truth that just means that politicians would be directly bankrolled by corporate interests instead of indirectly... When you can have a whole career in politics, in theory that gives you a slightly nonzero chance at being independent and actually governing rationally. Having to earn a living in corporate America ensures that you will vote for whatever keeps that corporate living alive.

I think that the campaign finance system needs to be heavily regulated....... I don't know when exactly it became the wild west but it is ridiculous...... Our elected officials need to be held to the highest of ethical standards when it comes to this.... complete transparency should be the norm not the exception....

My current opinion is that politicians should actually be directly paid a lot more than they are presently. I'm not sure if it would work, but that's the best I can come up with so far. If governing/legislating is a directly lucrative career then the influence of corporations will be reduced. Why take bribes when you can make good money by simply writing good laws?

It's roughly the same reasoning that I have for saying that teachers ought to be paid a lot more... If you want smart people who do a good job then you need to pay highly for them.

(This isn't a new idea. I'm paraphrasing Plato's Republic.)

troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:54 pm

Irish wrote:
I think that the campaign finance system needs to be heavily regulated....... I don't know when exactly it became the wild west but it is ridiculous...... Our elected officials need to be held to the highest of ethical standards when it comes to this.... complete transparency should be the norm not the exception....

My current opinion is that politicians should actually be directly paid a lot more than they are presently. I'm not sure if it would work, but that's the best I can come up with so far. If governing/legislating is a directly lucrative career then the influence of corporations will be reduced. Why take bribes when you can make good money by simply writing good laws?

It's roughly the same reasoning that I have for saying that teachers ought to be paid a lot more... If you want smart people who do a good job then you need to pay highly for them.

See that last line I added. That wasn't my idea, it's thousands of years old. I remember reading about it in high school and thinking it was smart. The whole idea of the philosopher king really makes sense to me.

razr390 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:16 pm I think the seeds of division are not necessarily planted by bad foreign actors but they are definitely adding fuel to this fire to drive us apart (China, Russia, and literally any country that benefits when we are weak).



There are things I agree with Republicunts about. There are things I agree with Democrats about.

We need more than two parties running politics.

We need term limits on Congress.

Purely for the sake of discussion and NOT to troll or argue, what are the things that you agree with both parties on? I'm legit curious.

troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:59 pm See that last line I added. That wasn't my idea, it's thousands of years old. I remember reading about it in high school and thinking it was smart. The whole idea of the philosopher king really makes sense to me.

Plato knew some shit, fo' sho'

If the last year taught me anything it's be careful when you discuss politics.

I have my ideas and opinions, but like my dick, it's best shared with few, in special occasions, and mostly kept to myself.

But, some people returned?

Melon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:31 pm If the last year taught me anything it's be careful when you discuss politics.

I have my ideas and opinions, but like my dick, it's best shared with few, in special occasions, and mostly kept to myself.

But, some people returned?

Yep. , , and made a 1/7 attempt yesterday to troll the site and, specifically, [user not found]'s new business thread.

wap wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:37 pm

Melon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:31 pm If the last year taught me anything it's be careful when you discuss politics.

I have my ideas and opinions, but like my dick, it's best shared with few, in special occasions, and mostly kept to myself.

But, some people returned?

Yep. , , and made a 1/7 attempt yesterday to troll the site and, specifically, [user not found]'s new business thread.

Ah.

Melon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:39 pm

wap wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:37 pm
Yep. , , and made a 1/7 attempt yesterday to troll the site and, specifically, [user not found]'s new business thread.

Ah.

Yea.

wap wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:11 pm

razr390 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:16 pm I think the seeds of division are not necessarily planted by bad foreign actors but they are definitely adding fuel to this fire to drive us apart (China, Russia, and literally any country that benefits when we are weak).



There are things I agree with Republicunts about. There are things I agree with Democrats about.

We need more than two parties running politics.

We need term limits on Congress.

Purely for the sake of discussion and NOT to troll or argue, what are the things that you agree with both parties on? I'm legit curious.

I’ll address this in a lengthier post, but removing the fringes of society on both sides, there are always good ideas on both sides that get ruined by the political shit throwing.

I think blindly supporting one party/outlook does a disservice to democracy as a whole. I will always engage someone in intellectual debate even if I agree with them.

razr390 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:49 pm

wap wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:11 pm

Purely for the sake of discussion and NOT to troll or argue, what are the things that you agree with both parties on? I'm legit curious.

I’ll address this in a lengthier post, but removing the fringes of society on both sides, there are always good ideas on both sides that get ruined by the political shit throwing.

I think blindly supporting one party/outlook does a disservice to democracy as a whole. I will always engage someone in intellectual debate even if I agree with them.

I don't disagree.
Looking forward to your lengthier post.

Melon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:31 pm If the last year taught me anything it's be careful when you discuss politics.

I have my ideas and opinions, but like my dick, it's best shared with few, in special occasions, and mostly kept to myself.

But, some people returned?

Also, Irish, I'm not shitting on your thread topic. It's good stuff.

When in doubt, whip it out.

Melon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:31 pm If the last year taught me anything it's be careful when you discuss politics.

I have my ideas and opinions, but like my dick, it's best shared with few, in special occasions, and mostly kept to myself.

I grew up in an apolitical house. To this day I don't know who my parents voted or what party they support.

I lean center-left most days. Occasionally center right depending on how the questions are phrased. I generally keep my opinions to myself.

I do find political maneuverings fascinating, so I enjoy following politics, but not so much for the outcomes, for the process that takes to get there.

Melon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:42 pm

Melon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:31 pm If the last year taught me anything it's be careful when you discuss politics.

I have my ideas and opinions, but like my dick, it's best shared with few, in special occasions, and mostly kept to myself.

But, some people returned?

Also, Irish, I'm not shitting on your thread topic. It's good stuff.

As a general rule of thumb, and in general company I keep my opinions to myself..... I went further than I intended to here and I vented a bit more about than I should have

I hope I don't live to regret it but its out there now.....

I do hate the fact that many of us feel we have to tiptoe though...... in a perfect world we (as a people) could express our opinions and beliefs and civilly teach one another a thing or two.... nothing is learned in an echo chamber.....

troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:54 pm When in doubt, whip it out.

You are likely aware of this, but this saying is used in the military to help recruits with saluting....the idea being its better to salute the wrong person than NOT salute the right one....

Hillary was put right where she needed to be so that the Dems could throw the election. Democracy is dead and we're all just feeder fish to elitist thievery.

Tarspin wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:19 pm Hillary was put right where she needed to be so that the Dems could throw the election. Democracy is dead and we're all just feeder fish to elitist thievery.