Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I do, actually. We want something on the smaller side that has a bit more ground clearance and AWD for the feet of snow we're supposed to get at a time up here. I like the Crosstrek overall, I just find it to be too boring and common. Crosstrek and Outback are like the official vehicles of northern MI (other than Wranglers), which is why I'd like something a bit more unique/interesting. If Subaru made a WRX Crosstrek I'd go buy one tomorrow .

I thought about that many times on our cross country trip. Like, sure, we did actually go off road numerous times, but it was nothing a CuckTrek couldn't handle. That would've handled the trip much more efficiently than the Beep Beep... but at the cost of just being total cucks.

CuckTrek is in 2021 what a Camry was in 1998 and a CR-V in 2011. While it's , it seems like a far way to fall to from some of the cars you and Infamous have owned.

Yea, we'll find something more interesting, if we ever even need a second vehicle. I'm also caring less and less Honestly, if the CT had a Hemi and a larger screen, it would be fine. Huge, but fine.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I think they're but they seem to be really good vehicles at least.

Up until you use the tailgate

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Seems less depressing than a CuckTrek for sure.

I will tell you the Mazderp seats are FAR more comfortable.

The entire vehicle just feels more premium overall. Not a luxury car, but a nicer up(per) scale place to be. I like the niche Mazda has carved out. Unfortunately, the closest appears to be 200 miles away.

[max225]

Up until you use the tailgate

hingegate

[fledonfoot]

Inventory at work is just bananas.

We have one Macan. One cayenne GTS, one Cayenne Turbo, one base Cayenne Coupe. Two Panamera GTS and a base Panamera. 3 base Taycan’s, one 4S and two Turbo Ss. Sports car inventory is down to a 911 Turbo S optioned to $240k that was an order the lady backed out of.

14 new cars. 911 allocations sold out to December.

There are at least 40 sold Cayennes sitting at the port waiting for tire pressure sensors, on a 8-12 week delay. Incoming Panamera models will be the same.

[max225]

That’s what happens when no one has to pay back PPP and the gov throws 6 trillskies into the economy.

[max225]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CP1rvIDB ... =copy_link

[D Griff]

Inventory at work is just bananas.

We have one Macan. One cayenne GTS, one Cayenne Turbo, one base Cayenne Coupe. Two Panamera GTS and a base Panamera. 3 base Taycan’s, one 4S and two Turbo Ss. Sports car inventory is down to a 911 Turbo S optioned to $240k that was an order the lady backed out of.

14 new cars. 911 allocations sold out to December.

There are at least 40 sold Cayennes sitting at the port waiting for tire pressure sensors, on a 8-12 week delay. Incoming Panamera models will be the same.

At least you're in service and not sales.

My company overbought inventory over the last year so I am really lucky right now. People are buying shit from us because they have no other choice in the market. We have no inventory on maybe 5% of our SKUs but many other companies in this industry are at like 50%. Weird times

[MexicanYarisTK]

Now that I saw the rav4 being in the discussion, any thoughts on this new Corolla Cross? Almost seems Toyota is lowkey trying to transform the economy car where it'll change the perspective of the general market more with the name Corolla

Not to mention, it is strangely familiar to the rav4 too, from aesthetics and all. But as far as dimensions it is smaller.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Now that I saw the rav4 being in the discussion, any thoughts on this new Corolla Cross? Almost seems Toyota is lowkey trying to transform the economy car where it'll change the perspective of the general market more with the name Corolla

Not to mention, it is strangely familiar to the rav4 too, from aesthetics and all. But as far as dimensions it is smaller.

Cars are dead. OEMs are trying to figure out how to replace them. Toyota is going a bit more conventional, Ford is going crazy with the Maverick. It'll be a very interesting few years for the entry level vehicle space.

[MexicanYarisTK]

Now that I saw the rav4 being in the discussion, any thoughts on this new Corolla Cross? Almost seems Toyota is lowkey trying to transform the economy car where it'll change the perspective of the general market more with the name Corolla

Not to mention, it is strangely familiar to the rav4 too, from aesthetics and all. But as far as dimensions it is smaller.

Cars are dead. OEMs are trying to figure out how to replace them. Toyota is going a bit more conventional, Ford is going crazy with the Maverick. It'll be a very interesting few years for the entry level vehicle space.

Im sure that is mostly directed to the US market though. After being in overseas, not finding crossovers at every light is refreshing, I even see the new focus and fiesta on the road which we won't get in the US. But that being said, it is the free market after all, like US spec manufacturers can pretty much do what they want as long as their line-up sells well. Like we dumped the mk8 regular Golf, just like Europe dumped the Jetta.

Speaking of VW in particular, The VW Taos is literally just like one of the SEAT CUV's upon my further investigation in similarities based on looks and the fact that it comes with a DSG with the SAME DSG knob. I know cheap VW's like Polo and most of Seat is built in Spain for cheaper labor, that might be the case with Taos.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Cars are dead. OEMs are trying to figure out how to replace them. Toyota is going a bit more conventional, Ford is going crazy with the Maverick. It'll be a very interesting few years for the entry level vehicle space.

Im sure that is mostly directed to the US market though. After being in overseas, not finding crossovers at every light is refreshing, I even see the new focus and fiesta on the road which we won't get in the US. But that being said, it is the free market after all, like US spec manufacturers can pretty much do what they want as long as their line-up sells well. Like we dumped the mk8 regular Golf, just like Europe dumped the Jetta.

Speaking of VW in particular, The VW Taos is literally just like one of the SEAT CUV's upon my further investigation in similarities based on looks and the fact that it comes with a DSG with the SAME DSG knob. I know cheap VW's like Polo and most of Seat is built in Spain for cheaper labor, that might be the case with Taos.

Yea, global markets are different, but global commonization is only going to increase. The Corolla CUV thing is likely testing the waters in markets that are still into cars. Eventually, they'll be dead everywhere I'm sure.

[max225]

Now that I saw the rav4 being in the discussion, any thoughts on this new Corolla Cross? Almost seems Toyota is lowkey trying to transform the economy car where it'll change the perspective of the general market more with the name Corolla

Not to mention, it is strangely familiar to the rav4 too, from aesthetics and all. But as far as dimensions it is smaller.

Cars are dead. OEMs are trying to figure out how to replace them. Toyota is going a bit more conventional, Ford is going crazy with the Maverick. It'll be a very interesting few years for the entry level vehicle space.

I wonder what the next gen Taco will be like...

It is the market leader... and they are totally stuck with "do we keep a successful formula" or "do we set the tone for the future"

Taco guys are really fking annoying at least on the forum...
"give me lockers, , rear discs, no safety, 33" tires, for 30k" but that's not what sells.

[D Griff]

Cars are dead. OEMs are trying to figure out how to replace them. Toyota is going a bit more conventional, Ford is going crazy with the Maverick. It'll be a very interesting few years for the entry level vehicle space.

I wonder what the next gen Taco will be like...

It is the market leader... and they are totally stuck with "do we keep a successful formula" or "do we set the tone for the future"

Taco guys are really fking annoying at least on the forum...
"give me lockers, , rear discs, no safety, 33" tires, for 30k" but that's not what sells.

I would bet mostly the same with a better transmission and maybe some upgraded tech. If it ain't broke...

Toyota tends to be pretty conservative as well. At a certain point, being "ancient" is kind of an asset when it comes to trucks, IMO.

[max225]

I wonder what the next gen Taco will be like...

It is the market leader... and they are totally stuck with "do we keep a successful formula" or "do we set the tone for the future"

Taco guys are really fking annoying at least on the forum...
"give me lockers, , rear discs, no safety, 33" tires, for 30k" but that's not what sells.

I would bet mostly the same with a better transmission and maybe some upgraded tech. If it ain't broke...

Toyota tends to be pretty conservative as well. At a certain point, being "ancient" is kind of an asset when it comes to trucks, IMO.

It WAS the name of the game from 2010-2022. But it won't be going forward. It would be foolish to think that pouring billions into a redesign of a 300k unit truck that needs to last until 2032 will maintain a gasoline engine. Gasoline engines are being fazed our rapidly and I would be shocked if Yoda doesn't introduce some sort of Electrified version of the truck. It would be incredibly near sighted.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I would bet mostly the same with a better transmission and maybe some upgraded tech. If it ain't broke...

Toyota tends to be pretty conservative as well. At a certain point, being "ancient" is kind of an asset when it comes to trucks, IMO.

It WAS the name of the game from 2010-2022. But it won't be going forward. It would be foolish to think that pouring billions into a redesign of a 300k unit truck that needs to last until 2032 will maintain a gasoline engine. Gasoline engines are being fazed our rapidly and I would be shocked if Yoda doesn't introduce some sort of Electrified version of the truck. It would be incredibly near sighted.

More than likely it'll launch as an ICE but the platform will be setup to accept electrification in the very near future. Electrification eats in to profits drastically, so kicking the can for as long as possible is the way. Trucks are last because they're treated differently by the EPA.

I'd be shocked if it was BEV, but a hybrid could be

[D Griff]

It WAS the name of the game from 2010-2022. But it won't be going forward. It would be foolish to think that pouring billions into a redesign of a 300k unit truck that needs to last until 2032 will maintain a gasoline engine. Gasoline engines are being fazed our rapidly and I would be shocked if Yoda doesn't introduce some sort of Electrified version of the truck. It would be incredibly near sighted.

More than likely it'll launch as an ICE but the platform will be setup to accept electrification in the very near future. Electrification eats in to profits drastically, so kicking the can for as long as possible is the way. Trucks are last because they're treated differently by the EPA.

I'd be shocked if it was BEV, but a hybrid could be

Toyota seems to still be king on the hybrid front. Why not plop the Rage4 Hybrid drivetrain into a Taco, could be

I'm not as convinced that EV is "the way" as Max or whatever. Many truck buyers do a lot of "real shit" where EVs still wouldn't really work. Construction sites don't have EV charging; overlanding roads don't have EV charging; beaches don't have EV charging... I don't think we'll see 50% EV until at least 2045.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

More than likely it'll launch as an ICE but the platform will be setup to accept electrification in the very near future. Electrification eats in to profits drastically, so kicking the can for as long as possible is the way. Trucks are last because they're treated differently by the EPA.

I'd be shocked if it was BEV, but a hybrid could be

Toyota seems to still be king on the hybrid front. Why not plop the Rage4 Hybrid drivetrain into a Taco, could be

I'm not as convinced that EV is "the way" as Max or whatever. Many truck buyers do a lot of "real shit" where EVs still wouldn't really work. Construction sites don't have EV charging; overlanding roads don't have EV charging; beaches don't have EV charging... I don't think we'll see 50% EV until at least 2045.

The .gov is forcing EVs...it is the chosen solution for whatever reason and a fully electric vehicle future is eminent. Trucks are tough and will be the last to come along for the reasons you mentioned, but we'll be at 50% EV 5-10 years before you think...2030-2035. By 2045, we'll be nearing all EV. It's going to come fast, internal combustion is dead for better or worse.

Toyota has really lagged with BEV, owning the hybrid space instead. I think that's the right answer for the next 10 or so years for SUVs and trucks, but it's still a losing proposition in the long run.

The perfect answer is a Volt style extended range electric vehicle. Full EV when you can, dump gas in it when you can't. I don't know why the industry hasn't done more of that, I think it's perfect for trucks.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

More than likely it'll launch as an ICE but the platform will be setup to accept electrification in the very near future. Electrification eats in to profits drastically, so kicking the can for as long as possible is the way. Trucks are last because they're treated differently by the EPA.

I'd be shocked if it was BEV, but a hybrid could be

Toyota seems to still be king on the hybrid front. Why not plop the Rage4 Hybrid drivetrain into a Taco, could be

I'm not as convinced that EV is "the way" as Max or whatever. Many truck buyers do a lot of "real shit" where EVs still wouldn't really work. Construction sites don't have EV charging; overlanding roads don't have EV charging; beaches don't have EV charging... I don't think we'll see 50% EV until at least 2045.

The .gov is forcing EVs...it is the chosen solution for whatever reason and a fully electric vehicle future is eminent. Trucks are tough and will be the last to come along for the reasons you mentioned, but we'll be at 50% EV 5-10 years before you think...2030-2035. By 2045, we'll be nearing all EV. It's going to come fast, internal combustion is dead for better or worse.

Toyota has really lagged with BEV, owning the hybrid space instead. I think that's the right answer for the next 10 or so years for SUVs and trucks, but it's still a losing proposition in the long run.

The perfect answer is a Volt style extended range electric vehicle. Full EV when you can, dump gas in it when you can't. I don't know why the industry hasn't done more of that, I think it's perfect for trucks.

[D Griff]

Toyota seems to still be king on the hybrid front. Why not plop the Rage4 Hybrid drivetrain into a Taco, could be

I'm not as convinced that EV is "the way" as Max or whatever. Many truck buyers do a lot of "real shit" where EVs still wouldn't really work. Construction sites don't have EV charging; overlanding roads don't have EV charging; beaches don't have EV charging... I don't think we'll see 50% EV until at least 2045.

The .gov is forcing EVs...it is the chosen solution for whatever reason and a fully electric vehicle future is eminent. Trucks are tough and will be the last to come along for the reasons you mentioned, but we'll be at 50% EV 5-10 years before you think...2030-2035. By 2045, we'll be nearing all EV. It's going to come fast, internal combustion is dead for better or worse.

Toyota has really lagged with BEV, owning the hybrid space instead. I think that's the right answer for the next 10 or so years for SUVs and trucks, but it's still a losing proposition in the long run.

The perfect answer is a Volt style extended range electric vehicle. Full EV when you can, dump gas in it when you can't. I don't know why the industry hasn't done more of that, I think it's perfect for trucks.

I guess...? I suspect the .gov will back peddle pretty hard in 2030 when they realize that it isn't going to work? And what about all of the existing cars? Cars last 20 years or so, so even if 2045 is 100% EVs for sale, most vehicles on the road will be from the previous decade.

I just find it funny... like who knows anyone who actually owns an EV? I have a pretty large social circle - large family, I keep in touch with friends from high school, college, various workplaces, local cycling community, I regularly talk to hundreds of different people and I know exactly one who owns an EV. Of all of those people, many would never be able to have one in anything similar to the current climate due to living situations and stuff.

I'm not anti-EV by any means, just very skeptical that it will actually happen in any sort of quick way.

[max225]

My buddy just got his new model Y 1 month ago… did carvana they are offering 55k, he paid 52k otd. He is making 3k …

[fledonfoot]

It WAS the name of the game from 2010-2022. But it won't be going forward. It would be foolish to think that pouring billions into a redesign of a 300k unit truck that needs to last until 2032 will maintain a gasoline engine. Gasoline engines are being fazed our rapidly and I would be shocked if Yoda doesn't introduce some sort of Electrified version of the truck. It would be incredibly near sighted.

More than likely it'll launch as an ICE but the platform will be setup to accept electrification in the very near future. Electrification eats in to profits drastically, so kicking the can for as long as possible is the way. Trucks are last because they're treated differently by the EPA.

I'd be shocked if it was BEV, but a hybrid could be

Last I heard before I left was new Tundra mid 2022 with a turbo V6 replacing the 5.7 that sucks down fuel, and a hybrid turbo V6 available as a “premium” drivetrain option.

2022 for the new 4Runner which will also have a “Prime” variant like the Prius and Rav.

2023 brings the new Taco for MY24 with a V6 hybrid option as the “big” engine.

[Desertbreh]

The .gov is forcing EVs...it is the chosen solution for whatever reason and a fully electric vehicle future is eminent. Trucks are tough and will be the last to come along for the reasons you mentioned, but we'll be at 50% EV 5-10 years before you think...2030-2035. By 2045, we'll be nearing all EV. It's going to come fast, internal combustion is dead for better or worse.

Toyota has really lagged with BEV, owning the hybrid space instead. I think that's the right answer for the next 10 or so years for SUVs and trucks, but it's still a losing proposition in the long run.

The perfect answer is a Volt style extended range electric vehicle. Full EV when you can, dump gas in it when you can't. I don't know why the industry hasn't done more of that, I think it's perfect for trucks.

I guess...? I suspect the .gov will back peddle pretty hard in 2030 when they realize that it isn't going to work? And what about all of the existing cars? Cars last 20 years or so, so even if 2045 is 100% EVs for sale, most vehicles on the road will be from the previous decade.

I just find it funny... like who knows anyone who actually owns an EV? I have a pretty large social circle - large family, I keep in touch with friends from high school, college, various workplaces, local cycling community, I regularly talk to hundreds of different people and I know exactly one who owns an EV. Of all of those people, many would never be able to have one in anything similar to the current climate due to living situations and stuff.

I'm not anti-EV by any means, just very skeptical that it will actually happen in any sort of quick way.

+1 Pay area observations are not ROW observations.

[wap]

I guess...? I suspect the .gov will back peddle pretty hard in 2030 when they realize that it isn't going to work? And what about all of the existing cars? Cars last 20 years or so, so even if 2045 is 100% EVs for sale, most vehicles on the road will be from the previous decade.

I just find it funny... like who knows anyone who actually owns an EV? I have a pretty large social circle - large family, I keep in touch with friends from high school, college, various workplaces, local cycling community, I regularly talk to hundreds of different people and I know exactly one who owns an EV. Of all of those people, many would never be able to have one in anything similar to the current climate due to living situations and stuff.

I'm not anti-EV by any means, just very skeptical that it will actually happen in any sort of quick way.

+1 Pay area observations are not ROW observations.

Hell, I only know 2 people who own hybrids, and they've been available for 20 years.

[max225]

I guess...? I suspect the .gov will back peddle pretty hard in 2030 when they realize that it isn't going to work? And what about all of the existing cars? Cars last 20 years or so, so even if 2045 is 100% EVs for sale, most vehicles on the road will be from the previous decade.

I just find it funny... like who knows anyone who actually owns an EV? I have a pretty large social circle - large family, I keep in touch with friends from high school, college, various workplaces, local cycling community, I regularly talk to hundreds of different people and I know exactly one who owns an EV. Of all of those people, many would never be able to have one in anything similar to the current climate due to living situations and stuff.

I'm not anti-EV by any means, just very skeptical that it will actually happen in any sort of quick way.

+1 Pay area observations are not ROW observations.

Gasoline cars will be around for 50 + years. Just like horses are around today. But this doesn’t mean that a regular “person” will be rolling in a new ICE car in 2030