Car Talk 4: The Richard Hertz Rent-A-Car 500

[goIftdibrad]

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 79296.html

FCA reported june sales, (for the last time ) now they are going to qtrly reporting with GM. Which makes sense in some ways. Must be a big resource suck to do this monthly on the comp.. as technically you're only required to do QTRLY accoring to the SEC.

That said... sales are down... for the year and for the month... I think it will certainly require more incentives if they want to move more units...

Also RAM is WAY up... not surprising at all considering they were running 20% off MSRP ads here all month.

wait what?!?!?!

[ChrisoftheNorth]

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 79296.html

FCA reported june sales, (for the last time ) now they are going to qtrly reporting with GM. Which makes sense in some ways. Must be a big resource suck to do this monthly on the comp.. as technically you're only required to do QTRLY accoring to the SEC.

That said... sales are down... for the year and for the month... I think it will certainly require more incentives if they want to move more units...

Also RAM is WAY up... not surprising at all considering they were running 20% off MSRP ads here all month.

wait what?!?!?!

GM switched to quarterly sales reporting last year. Ford followed suit and now FCA is as well. It makes a ton of sense. Monthly sales reporting is stupid.

[Huckleberry]

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 79296.html

FCA reported june sales, (for the last time ) now they are going to qtrly reporting with GM. Which makes sense in some ways. Must be a big resource suck to do this monthly on the comp.. as technically you're only required to do QTRLY accoring to the SEC.

That said... sales are down... for the year and for the month... I think it will certainly require more incentives if they want to move more units...

Also RAM is WAY up... not surprising at all considering they were running 20% off MSRP ads here all month.

Interesting that the Charger had its best month since 2007.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 79296.html

FCA reported june sales, (for the last time ) now they are going to qtrly reporting with GM. Which makes sense in some ways. Must be a big resource suck to do this monthly on the comp.. as technically you're only required to do QTRLY accoring to the SEC.

That said... sales are down... for the year and for the month... I think it will certainly require more incentives if they want to move more units...

Also RAM is WAY up... not surprising at all considering they were running 20% off MSRP ads here all month.

Interesting that the Charger had its best month since 2007.

It's really the last car like it in the industry. Combined with likely high incentives, it's probably a great buy.

[goIftdibrad]

wait what?!?!?!

GM switched to quarterly sales reporting last year. Ford followed suit and now FCA is as well. It makes a ton of sense. Monthly sales reporting is stupid.

oh. I thought i missed something else.

[max225]

You can literally see every vehicle where FCA played the pricing game. The portfolio is really strong, based on what i can tell every QTR FCA choses a sacrificial lamb or two to play the pricing game with.
This QTR it was JGC/Charger/Challenger/Ram last QTR it was a few others, next qtr I would be shocked if the doesn't get 5 figures on the hood.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

You can literally see every vehicle where FCA played the pricing game. The portfolio is really strong, based on what i can tell every QTR FCA choses a sacrificial lamb or two to play the pricing game with.
This QTR it was JGC/Charger/Challenger/Ram last QTR it was a few others, next qtr I would be shocked if the doesn't get 5 figures on the hood.

All OEMs do this, just doesn't seem as extreme as FCA. It works though...these are ancient platforms that are just printing money. So even with high incentives, the profit is still there.

It's brilliant, just hard to say how long it'll work.

[max225]

You can literally see every vehicle where FCA played the pricing game. The portfolio is really strong, based on what i can tell every QTR FCA choses a sacrificial lamb or two to play the pricing game with.
This QTR it was JGC/Charger/Challenger/Ram last QTR it was a few others, next qtr I would be shocked if the doesn't get 5 figures on the hood.

All OEMs do this, just doesn't seem as extreme as FCA. It works though...these are ancient platforms that are just printing money. So even with high incentives, the profit is still there.

It's brilliant, just hard to say how long it'll work.

No way the profit is there, the loses money on each SALE, they TOLD ME.

Chevy is completely fked, they have a hideous new product, and they are not competitive on price, FCA crushing them makes perfect sense.

Meanwhile at Ford I don't even know what they have in the pipeline outside of the Bronco...

Ranger Old and outdated
F150 Aluminum scam (its NOT ANY LIGHTER THAN THE LAST MODEL)+ Old and outdated +overly complex with twin turbo crap no one asked for
Mustang No longer competitive, outpriced by FCA
Explorer - absolute joke, I have no idea why anyone would buy one over a highlander or a passport even a durango etc
Edge - is the point of that thing
Expedition - probably mostly limo sales or uber black attempts at striking it rich.

[Desertbreh]

You can literally see every vehicle where FCA played the pricing game. The portfolio is really strong, based on what i can tell every QTR FCA choses a sacrificial lamb or two to play the pricing game with.
This QTR it was JGC/Charger/Challenger/Ram last QTR it was a few others, next qtr I would be shocked if the doesn't get 5 figures on the hood.

All OEMs do this, just doesn't seem as extreme as FCA. It works though...these are ancient platforms that are just printing money. So even with high incentives, the profit is still there.

It's brilliant, just hard to say how long it'll work.

Just keep adding widebody versions of all the things.

[max225]

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 79296.html

FCA reported june sales, (for the last time ) now they are going to qtrly reporting with GM. Which makes sense in some ways. Must be a big resource suck to do this monthly on the comp.. as technically you're only required to do QTRLY accoring to the SEC.

That said... sales are down... for the year and for the month... I think it will certainly require more incentives if they want to move more units...

Also RAM is WAY up... not surprising at all considering they were running 20% off MSRP ads here all month.

Interesting that the Charger had its best month since 2007.

There is almost no competition left, Fraud+GM are all exiting vehicles and making shit cross overs. So even at "best month since 2007" it is a better vehicle than a Explorer if you axe me.

[max225]

All OEMs do this, just doesn't seem as extreme as FCA. It works though...these are ancient platforms that are just printing money. So even with high incentives, the profit is still there.

It's brilliant, just hard to say how long it'll work.

Just keep adding widebody versions of all the things.

Has anyone ever tried this.... i need a break from cars...

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Just keep adding widebody versions of all the things.

Has anyone ever tried this.... i need a break from cars...

I remember these commercials fondly.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Interesting that the Charger had its best month since 2007.

There is almost no competition left, Fraud+GM are all exiting vehicles and making shit cross overs. So even at "best month since 2007" it is a better vehicle than a Explorer if you axe me.

[max225]

There is almost no competition left, Fraud+GM are all exiting vehicles and making shit cross overs. So even at "best month since 2007" it is a better vehicle than a Explorer if you axe me.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

All OEMs do this, just doesn't seem as extreme as FCA. It works though...these are ancient platforms that are just printing money. So even with high incentives, the profit is still there.

It's brilliant, just hard to say how long it'll work.

No way the profit is there, the loses money on each SALE, they TOLD ME.

Chevy is completely fked, they have a hideous new product, and they are not competitive on price, FCA crushing them makes perfect sense.

Meanwhile at Ford I don't even know what they have in the pipeline outside of the Bronco...

Ranger Old and outdated
F150 Aluminum scam (its NOT ANY LIGHTER THAN THE LAST MODEL)+ Old and outdated +overly complex with twin turbo crap no one asked for
Mustang No longer competitive, outpriced by FCA
Explorer - absolute joke, I have no idea why anyone would buy one over a highlander or a passport even a durango etc
Edge - is the point of that thing
Expedition - probably mostly limo sales or uber black attempts at striking it rich.

Well, profitability for the OEM is certainly there. Massive capex hasn't been dedicated to dud redesigns like the Silverado/Sierra.

It's interesting how the truck stuff played out. All the OEMs went in different directions, and it looks like FCA won.

Ford's portfolio really is a ton of There's gotta be fresh stuff coming, but if the Explorer is any indication, the stuff won't be all that great.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

AND from what I can tell in data, while FCA incentives are higher, so are transaction prices. SOooo selling higher priced trucks at a higher discount, still nets the same profitability at the end of the day. Factor in the capex spent on the new truck compared to GM, and I imagine the base margins are healthier as well.

GM spent an ass-load on the new trucks. Redesigning shit nobody cares about (chassis, weight savings, etc) while ignoring the stuff people do care about (interior/tech). When I was there, they were claiming the T1 pickup launch the "most important in the company's history". They over-analysed, came out with a meh truck, and lost.

I'm over here all

[max225]

No way the profit is there, the loses money on each SALE, they TOLD ME.

Chevy is completely fked, they have a hideous new product, and they are not competitive on price, FCA crushing them makes perfect sense.

Meanwhile at Ford I don't even know what they have in the pipeline outside of the Bronco...

Ranger Old and outdated
F150 Aluminum scam (its NOT ANY LIGHTER THAN THE LAST MODEL)+ Old and outdated +overly complex with twin turbo crap no one asked for
Mustang No longer competitive, outpriced by FCA
Explorer - absolute joke, I have no idea why anyone would buy one over a highlander or a passport even a durango etc
Edge - is the point of that thing
Expedition - probably mostly limo sales or uber black attempts at striking it rich.

Well, profitability for the OEM is certainly there. Massive capex hasn't been dedicated to dud redesigns like the Silverado/Sierra.

It's interesting how the truck stuff played out. All the OEMs went in different directions, and it looks like FCA won.

Ford's portfolio really is a ton of There's gotta be fresh stuff coming, but if the Explorer is any indication, the stuff won't be all that great.

There is a clear pattern in most OEMs.

Existing line up>Refresh only, don't make anything from the ground up
Consolidate product lines>remove ones that are not going going with customer patterns (cars)
Invest heavily in everything but cars> Fraud bought so many useless companies like Chariot, as well as that bike non sense etc, they lit a solid billsky on fire which could have been used on say a new Ranger... but nooo they decided to fund hookers and blow and

[max225]

AND from what I can tell in data, while FCA incentives are higher, so are transaction prices. SOooo selling higher priced trucks at a higher discount, still nets the same profitability at the end of the day. Factor in the capex spent on the new truck compared to GM, and I imagine the base margins are healthier as well.

GM spent an ass-load on the new trucks. Redesigning shit nobody cares about (chassis, weight savings, etc) while ignoring the stuff people do care about (interior/tech). When I was there, they were claiming the T1 pickup launch the "most important in the company's history". They over-analysed, came out with a meh truck, and lost.

I'm over here all

Right which is why I was saying... incentives and MSRPs seperated are pointless measures. ATPs are up because cars got canned at FCA which had low ATP, as well as the last gen Patriot etc, that was selling at 12-18k. Now customers are moving to 's and 60k Ram rebels discounted down to 45k...

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Well, profitability for the OEM is certainly there. Massive capex hasn't been dedicated to dud redesigns like the Silverado/Sierra.

It's interesting how the truck stuff played out. All the OEMs went in different directions, and it looks like FCA won.

Ford's portfolio really is a ton of There's gotta be fresh stuff coming, but if the Explorer is any indication, the stuff won't be all that great.

There is a clear pattern in most OEMs.

Existing line up>Refresh only, don't make anything from the ground up
Consolidate product lines>remove ones that are not going going with customer patterns (cars)
Invest heavily in everything but cars> Fraud bought so many useless companies like Chariot, as well as that bike non sense etc, they lit a solid billsky on fire which could have been used on say a new Ranger... but nooo they decided to fund hookers and blow and

Ford and GM both are trying to improve stock price by any means necessary. That means stupid investment in "mobility" BS like Chariot and bike shit. They're both doing it, and it's literally the same as lighting that money on fire. Zero response from wall street.

Meanwhile, FCA keeps announcing investment in US manufacturing and moving metal. Same response from wall street, but at least the money fire isn't occurring.

[max225]

There is a clear pattern in most OEMs.

Existing line up>Refresh only, don't make anything from the ground up
Consolidate product lines>remove ones that are not going going with customer patterns (cars)
Invest heavily in everything but cars> Fraud bought so many useless companies like Chariot, as well as that bike non sense etc, they lit a solid billsky on fire which could have been used on say a new Ranger... but nooo they decided to fund hookers and blow and

Ford and GM both are trying to improve stock price by any means necessary. That means stupid investment in "mobility" BS like Chariot and bike shit. They're both doing it, and it's literally the same as lighting that money on fire. Zero response from wall street.

Meanwhile, FCA keeps announcing investment in US manufacturing and moving metal. Same response from wall street, but at least the money fire isn't occurring.

Wall st is a strange place to be right now.... only hype and the "promise" of "future returns" is what gets you a good stock price. "AMAZON OF" "AMAZON DIDN"T MAKE MONEY" "LOOK AT FACEBOOK IPO" all that shit gets thrown around more than a hooker after Valentines day. No ones cares about business fundamentals anymore.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

AND from what I can tell in data, while FCA incentives are higher, so are transaction prices. SOooo selling higher priced trucks at a higher discount, still nets the same profitability at the end of the day. Factor in the capex spent on the new truck compared to GM, and I imagine the base margins are healthier as well.

GM spent an ass-load on the new trucks. Redesigning shit nobody cares about (chassis, weight savings, etc) while ignoring the stuff people do care about (interior/tech). When I was there, they were claiming the T1 pickup launch the "most important in the company's history". They over-analysed, came out with a meh truck, and lost.

I'm over here all

Right which is why I was saying... incentives and MSRPs seperated are pointless measures. ATPs are up because cars got canned at FCA which had low ATP, as well as the last gen Patriot etc, that was selling at 12-18k. Now customers are moving to 's and 60k Ram rebels discounted down to 45k...

No, I mean ATPs for the RAM...not FCA overall. Somehow, ATPs are up along with incentives. The only way that can happen is selling a higher trim mix. So more Rebels and Long Horns and whatnot...which are higher margin than base trucks by design. Buyers are getting way more value, which they're happy about, and the company is making the same profit in the end. Truck buyers are loyal AF, get them into a brand and it's done. What's happening now will last a while in the truck market. It's brilliant.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Ford and GM both are trying to improve stock price by any means necessary. That means stupid investment in "mobility" BS like Chariot and bike shit. They're both doing it, and it's literally the same as lighting that money on fire. Zero response from wall street.

Meanwhile, FCA keeps announcing investment in US manufacturing and moving metal. Same response from wall street, but at least the money fire isn't occurring.

Wall st is a strange place to be right now.... only hype and the "promise" of "future returns" is what gets you a good stock price. "AMAZON OF" "AMAZON DIDN"T MAKE MONEY" "LOOK AT FACEBOOK IPO" all that shit gets thrown around more than a hooker after Valentines day. No ones cares about business fundamentals anymore.

Right...which is why Ford and GM keep making lame attempts at lighting money on fire to get the stock price up. The car industry as we know it just isn't cool to wall street anymore...even though it's quite profitable. I don't understand how these companies with zero path to profitability continue to be valued the way they are.

[max225]

Wall st is a strange place to be right now.... only hype and the "promise" of "future returns" is what gets you a good stock price. "AMAZON OF" "AMAZON DIDN"T MAKE MONEY" "LOOK AT FACEBOOK IPO" all that shit gets thrown around more than a hooker after Valentines day. No ones cares about business fundamentals anymore.

Right...which is why Ford and GM keep making lame attempts at lighting money on fire to get the stock price up. The car industry as we know it just isn't cool to wall street anymore...even though it's quite profitable. I don't understand how these companies with zero path to profitability continue to be valued the way they are.

Same...

That + Epic debt load on students... + Companies that generate no real money... is a recipe for disaster, once the Saudi Arabian+Soft bank money runs out... shit will get real out here.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Right...which is why Ford and GM keep making lame attempts at lighting money on fire to get the stock price up. The car industry as we know it just isn't cool to wall street anymore...even though it's quite profitable. I don't understand how these companies with zero path to profitability continue to be valued the way they are.

Same...

That + Epic debt load on students... + Companies that generate no real money... is a recipe for disaster, once the Saudi Arabian+Soft bank money runs out... shit will get real out here.

Which is why I've been suggesting now isn't a great time for you to make a house move.

[max225]

Same...

That + Epic debt load on students... + Companies that generate no real money... is a recipe for disaster, once the Saudi Arabian+Soft bank money runs out... shit will get real out here.

Which is why I've been suggesting now isn't a great time for you to make a house move.

I just waited nearly a decade now... Getting a bit tired of it.