Random philosphy

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Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:50 pm

Hello everyone, I know I am new but I was wondering if anyone else shared a random interest in philosophy. I picked up a podcast about a month ago called Philosophize this! by Stephen West, and it brought back some stuff I learned in my undergrad courses on political philosophy, when I found out it's not all arguing about whether a tree makes a sound when it falls.

Sooooo, I wanted to see if I could interest you guys to post about your favorite philosopher or philosophy concept to teach something new or discuss what we agree or disagree with (please not too violently, prefer being productive).

That said, my favorites are a bit cliche with the top being Hobbes, who effectively argued that human nature is selfish and we have to band together to protect ourselves, Descartes who pointed out that we effectively can't trust any of our senses and so must question everything, and Spinoza who presented my favorite childhood argument on the existence of Santa, where you should live as though you believe in him, losing nothing whether he exists or not, as opposed to living opposed to his existence whereby you lose if he is real.

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Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:53 pm

Feelings are facts but facts aren't feelings. #dfd
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Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:55 pm

send this man to Сибирь
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Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:55 pm

Bender wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:53 pm
Feelings are facts but facts aren't feelings. #dfd
:notwrong:
:doughnut: :narc: :doughnut:
WAP wrote:Hey, if he's old enough to wear a ball gag he's old enough to fuck himself.

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Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:59 pm


SaxyJeep wrote: and Spinoza who presented my favorite childhood argument on the existence of Santa, where you should live as though you believe in him, losing nothing whether he exists or not, as opposed to living opposed to his existence whereby you lose if he is real.
Isn't that Pascal's wager?

I used to be into philosophy but got tired of it when I realized that I was surrounded by morans and it was all a waste of time. The Republic is killer.

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Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:00 pm

Bender wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:53 pm
Feelings are facts but facts aren't feelings. #dfd
And continuing this thread of #DFDlosophy...

:wrong: is always right.

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Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:02 pm

I wouldn't call myself a follower of philosophy by any means. But here are a couple turkish (ottoman devired) philosophies that I really like I will translate:

"Life is not your mommy and daddys lap" - another way of saying don't always rely on family for real life adult decisions or ask help, :millennial: sponsorship (unless only up to an extent)

"too much shaving, ruins the skin" - when the barber is shaving beards, barbers usually gossip and once they're carried away, they'll lose focus and ruin the skin. Another way of saying, don't talk too much.

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Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:23 pm

fledonfoot wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:00 pm
Bender wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:53 pm
Feelings are facts but facts aren't feelings. #dfd
And continuing this thread of #DFDlosophy...

:wrong: is always right.
:dat:
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:28 pm

troyguitar wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:59 pm
SaxyJeep wrote: and Spinoza who presented my favorite childhood argument on the existence of Santa, where you should live as though you believe in him, losing nothing whether he exists or not, as opposed to living opposed to his existence whereby you lose if he is real.
Isn't that Pascal's wager?

I used to be into philosophy but got tired of it when I realized that I was surrounded by morans and it was all a waste of time. The Republic is killer.
You are correct, my bad! Just listened to an episode of the podcast on Spinoza so I had his name stuck D:

Yea, I have maintained my novice interest in the field through talking with a friend who is actually studying philosophy. Even then, I like listening and reading on it occasionally because it just gives food for thought. Like the stoic's entire thing about pretty much expecting the worst and the best equally so you are never distraught, helps when the going gets tough knowing that its always a potential, what matters is what you make of it (which I guess would be more Spinoza with his expected values).

I never finished The Republic... it's just too dense, though I may soldier through it. I did read some parts of it, such as the Allegory of the Cave though.
Bender wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:53 pm
Feelings are facts but facts aren't feelings. #dfd
Very true. Another fun paradox/irony (blanking on the word) is how there can be no happiness without sadness, light without dark, etc.

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Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:29 pm

troyguitar wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:59 pm
SaxyJeep wrote: and Spinoza who presented my favorite childhood argument on the existence of Santa, where you should live as though you believe in him, losing nothing whether he exists or not, as opposed to living opposed to his existence whereby you lose if he is real.
Isn't that Pascal's wager?

I used to be into philosophy but got tired of it when I realized that I was surrounded by morans and it was all a waste of time. The Republic is killer.
Yes.

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Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:36 pm

Read The Stranger and Candid then call it a day.

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Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:36 pm

If you want to see dense, try reading some Kant. I got part way through the Critique of Pure Reason maybe 15 years ago and never made it any further. It's interesting but a whole lot of :dafuq: at the same time.

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Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:49 pm

I have a minor in political philosophy. That was like 15 years ago though.
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Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:36 am

I often get philosophical about life and death, more specifically spirituality. Tomorrow I will watch doctors remove life support tubes from my uncle's single functioning lung with hopes that he can breath on his own. The tubes will not go back in no matter what happens. He knows it, his wife and kids know it. It'll be a trying moment, and deep within my soul I hope that his spirit carries on, even if his body gives out. My senses will be heightened as I try to find some ounce of evidence that he is in a better place.

If I have more to contribute tomorrow I'll be back to share. I've visited him two days straight and he is incredibly alert and communicative short of talking because of his tubes. He liked that I told the nurse to come back as a cute busty female, he, myself and the poor dude who was the brunt of the joke all had a good chuckle. Fingers crossed.

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Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:18 am

Tarspin wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:36 am
I often get philosophical about life and death, more specifically spirituality. Tomorrow I will watch doctors remove life support tubes from my uncle's single functioning lung with hopes that he can breath on his own. The tubes will not go back in no matter what happens. He knows it, his wife and kids know it. It'll be a trying moment, and deep within my soul I hope that his spirit carries on, even if his body gives out. My senses will be heightened as I try to find some ounce of evidence that he is in a better place.

If I have more to contribute tomorrow I'll be back to share. I've visited him two days straight and he is incredibly alert and communicative short of talking because of his tubes. He liked that I told the nurse to come back as a cute busty female, he, myself and the poor dude who was the brunt of the joke all had a good chuckle. Fingers crossed.
There's a lot of very interesting ideas out there about the concept of something after death coming from most cultures. I think regardless if a culture believes in reincarnation or some concept of heaven, it definitely gives us something to look forward to, or at least not fear what comes after. I wish your uncle the best of luck, and more importantly, I wish your family strength, especially of they have to deal with a busty female nurse in the family :P
KYGTIGuy wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:36 pm
Read The Stranger and Candid then call it a day.
Adding it to my book list. Just finished Brave New World recently, and am finishing The Temple of the Golden Pavilion so something new is appreciated.
Bender wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:49 pm
I have a minor in political philosophy. That was like 15 years ago though.
Never too bad an idea to read up on it again :D
troyguitar wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:36 pm
If you want to see dense, try reading some Kant. I got part way through the Critique of Pure Reason maybe 15 years ago and never made it any further. It's interesting but a whole lot of :dafuq: at the same time.
I have heard horror stories about Kant, never gave it a shot. "I just kant read kant".....

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Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:42 am

Cool thread. In 4 discussions.

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Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:56 pm

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Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:28 pm

My uncle seems to be doing better but not strong enough to have his tubes pulled yet. Tomorrow might be the day if he's able to breath on his own. Three days with a severe headache, put otherwise getting a bit stronger each day. The end game is to spend a few days/weeks living life breathing eathing and drinking on his own and hopefully passing away in peace vs suffocating to death when they free him of his life support.

Many religions and their views:
So every culture or sect believes in some form of afterlife or spiritual existance. Pascals Wager I guess, it can't hurt to imagine. I'm going with it for this reason at least. It's tough to believe in blind faith, just the way I'm wired i guess, but I'm reaching to get a deeper sense of spirituality.

Does anyone here feel they have a personal spiritual understanding? An experience that has opened their mind to it? I have had some supernatural experiences in a house that was described by my close friend as haunted. Watching coat hangers in a closet, and a chainlink fence rattle before my eyes without a hint of wind while sitting in a hottub beside it is my closest experience. Apparently that house is built on a sacred native indian burial ground. But even with that experience I'm struggling to open my mind.

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Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:33 pm

Tarspin wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:28 pm
My uncle seems to be doing better but not strong enough to have his tubes pulled yet. Tomorrow might be the day if he's able to breath on his own. Three days with a severe headache, put otherwise getting a bit stronger each day. The end game is to spend a few days/weeks living life breathing eathing and drinking on his own and hopefully passing away in peace vs suffocating to death when they free him of his life support.

Many religions and their views:
So every culture or sect believes in some form of afterlife or spiritual existance. Pascals Wager I guess, it can't hurt to imagine. I'm going with it for this reason at least. It's tough to believe in blind faith, just the way I'm wired i guess, but I'm reaching to get a deeper sense of spirituality.

Does anyone here feel they have a personal spiritual understanding? An experience that has opened their mind to it? I have had some supernatural experiences in a house that was described by my close friend as haunted. Watching coat hangers in a closet, and a chainlink fence rattle before my eyes without a hint of wind in that house is my closest experience. Apparently that house is built on a sacred native indian burial ground. But even with that experience I'm struggling to open my mind.
Closest thing I have to the personal spiritual happening was a few years ago. Wifey and I were in the kitchen of our 1bd apartment, and we both saw a dog run from the living room (where our Ridgeback was sleeping on the couch) to the bedroom out of the corner of our eyes. I thought that was odd and go check, only to find our Ridgeback sleeping on the couch still. I ask wifey if she saw the dog run to the bedroom too and she said yes. After chatting for a minute she said it was probably one of her Ridgebacks that had passed on visiting.
Wifey has a much better connection to that world than me, so yeah I certainly don't discredit anyone who says they see things like that.

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Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:13 pm

Apex wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:33 pm
Tarspin wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:28 pm
My uncle seems to be doing better but not strong enough to have his tubes pulled yet. Tomorrow might be the day if he's able to breath on his own. Three days with a severe headache, put otherwise getting a bit stronger each day. The end game is to spend a few days/weeks living life breathing eathing and drinking on his own and hopefully passing away in peace vs suffocating to death when they free him of his life support.

Many religions and their views:
So every culture or sect believes in some form of afterlife or spiritual existance. Pascals Wager I guess, it can't hurt to imagine. I'm going with it for this reason at least. It's tough to believe in blind faith, just the way I'm wired i guess, but I'm reaching to get a deeper sense of spirituality.

Does anyone here feel they have a personal spiritual understanding? An experience that has opened their mind to it? I have had some supernatural experiences in a house that was described by my close friend as haunted. Watching coat hangers in a closet, and a chainlink fence rattle before my eyes without a hint of wind in that house is my closest experience. Apparently that house is built on a sacred native indian burial ground. But even with that experience I'm struggling to open my mind.
Closest thing I have to the personal spiritual happening was a few years ago. Wifey and I were in the kitchen of our 1bd apartment, and we both saw a dog run from the living room (where our Ridgeback was sleeping on the couch) to the bedroom out of the corner of our eyes. I thought that was odd and go check, only to find our Ridgeback sleeping on the couch still. I ask wifey if she saw the dog run to the bedroom too and she said yes. After chatting for a minute she said it was probably one of her Ridgebacks that had passed on visiting.
Wifey has a much better connection to that world than me, so yeah I certainly don't discredit anyone who says they see things like that.
Again, best wishes. I know what you mean about not being able to have blind faith, and that is one of the criticisms of Pascal's Wager, that acting in fake belief is not equivalent to real belief. So would a atheist who acts as if God exists still go to heaven despite not believing? I like to think that it does, since I believe that our religions are intended to be blueprints for living a just life as either defined by society or a greater being. So to wrap it up, I don't think you need a deep spirituality or blind faith to achieve a positive after-death.

I have never had any experiences like that but have known several people who have. It is an interesting point to make that some people are more receptive to them, to which I have to wonder why. Is it some sort of situational awareness, or stronger sense (in the sense that some have stronger hearing or eyesight).... hm.

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Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:20 am

SaxyJeep wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:13 pm
Apex wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:33 pm


Closest thing I have to the personal spiritual happening was a few years ago. Wifey and I were in the kitchen of our 1bd apartment, and we both saw a dog run from the living room (where our Ridgeback was sleeping on the couch) to the bedroom out of the corner of our eyes. I thought that was odd and go check, only to find our Ridgeback sleeping on the couch still. I ask wifey if she saw the dog run to the bedroom too and she said yes. After chatting for a minute she said it was probably one of her Ridgebacks that had passed on visiting.
Wifey has a much better connection to that world than me, so yeah I certainly don't discredit anyone who says they see things like that.
Again, best wishes. I know what you mean about not being able to have blind faith, and that is one of the criticisms of Pascal's Wager, that acting in fake belief is not equivalent to real belief. So would a atheist who acts as if God exists still go to heaven despite not believing? I like to think that it does, since I believe that our religions are intended to be blueprints for living a just life as either defined by society or a greater being. So to wrap it up, I don't think you need a deep spirituality or blind faith to achieve a positive after-death.

I have never had any experiences like that but have known several people who have. It is an interesting point to make that some people are more receptive to them, to which I have to wonder why. Is it some sort of situational awareness, or stronger sense (in the sense that some have stronger hearing or eyesight).... hm.
I don't think that insincere belief makes any sense unless it's for earthly gains - i.e. to be accepted by society, not God. If he exists, he's smart enough to know a believer from a pretender. I'm uncomfortable even setting foot in a church though, there's no way I could pretend to believe.

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Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:05 pm

troyguitar wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:20 am
SaxyJeep wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:13 pm


Again, best wishes. I know what you mean about not being able to have blind faith, and that is one of the criticisms of Pascal's Wager, that acting in fake belief is not equivalent to real belief. So would a atheist who acts as if God exists still go to heaven despite not believing? I like to think that it does, since I believe that our religions are intended to be blueprints for living a just life as either defined by society or a greater being. So to wrap it up, I don't think you need a deep spirituality or blind faith to achieve a positive after-death.

I have never had any experiences like that but have known several people who have. It is an interesting point to make that some people are more receptive to them, to which I have to wonder why. Is it some sort of situational awareness, or stronger sense (in the sense that some have stronger hearing or eyesight).... hm.
I don't think that insincere belief makes any sense unless it's for earthly gains - i.e. to be accepted by society, not God. If he exists, he's smart enough to know a believer from a pretender. I'm uncomfortable even setting foot in a church though, there's no way I could pretend to believe.
My problem with traditional churches is severalfold.

- They like to suppress women holding stronger roles
- They're against progressive reproductive rights for women
- They don't pay taxes
- They're very culty
- The whole diddling kids thing
- Against homosexuality (and other sexualities)
- Regressive train of thought

I recently sat through a Catholic wedding mass, and there were several moments that had my wife and I looking at each other in disbelief at what the pastor said. Things that as a kid you don't realize, but as an adult with an open mind, you really question. Things about subservient wives and their role in supporting their husband, per the bible. I wasn't amused.

I'm all for having a good community church that supports the neighborhood and keeps people on the straight and narrow, but this isn't 1812 anymore, man.
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Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:15 pm

Zillon wrote:
troyguitar wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:20 am
I don't think that insincere belief makes any sense unless it's for earthly gains - i.e. to be accepted by society, not God. If he exists, he's smart enough to know a believer from a pretender. I'm uncomfortable even setting foot in a church though, there's no way I could pretend to believe.
My problem with traditional churches is severalfold.

- They like to suppress women holding stronger roles
- They're against progressive reproductive rights for women
- They don't pay taxes
- They're very culty
- The whole diddling kids thing
- Against homosexuality (and other sexualities)
- Regressive train of thought

I recently sat through a Catholic wedding mass, and there were several moments that had my wife and I looking at each other in disbelief at what the pastor said. Things that as a kid you don't realize, but as an adult with an open mind, you really question. Things about subservient wives and their role in supporting their husband, per the bible. I wasn't amused.

I'm all for having a good community church that supports the neighborhood and keeps people on the straight and narrow, but this isn't 1812 anymore, man.
Oh my discomfort is simply from the fact that I don't believe so I don't belong. Many of them claim to welcome anyone "no matter where you are in your journey of faith" but it's kind of like being a dude in a women's studies class - you're not explicitly banned but you're not really welcome.

The whole thing with women vowing to obey their husband is beyond :fullretard:

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Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:03 pm

Zillon wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:05 pm
troyguitar wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:20 am


I don't think that insincere belief makes any sense unless it's for earthly gains - i.e. to be accepted by society, not God. If he exists, he's smart enough to know a believer from a pretender. I'm uncomfortable even setting foot in a church though, there's no way I could pretend to believe.
My problem with traditional churches is severalfold.

- They like to suppress women holding stronger roles
- They're against progressive reproductive rights for women
- They don't pay taxes
- They're very culty
- The whole diddling kids thing
- Against homosexuality (and other sexualities)
- Regressive train of thought

I recently sat through a Catholic wedding mass, and there were several moments that had my wife and I looking at each other in disbelief at what the pastor said. Things that as a kid you don't realize, but as an adult with an open mind, you really question. Things about subservient wives and their role in supporting their husband, per the bible. I wasn't amused.

I'm all for having a good community church that supports the neighborhood and keeps people on the straight and narrow, but this isn't 1812 anymore, man.
I agree. My view towards religion in general is separated into four rough categories:
A. Belief
B. Community
C. Tradition
D. Official organization (i.e. the actual church)

So with that said, church is the most problematic since it is in the end a political organization that should have no effect on belief, yet throughout history and now that political organization has been used to suppress human progression (imo), especially in philosophy and science. Though our governments arguably are also similar political organizations, we have reached the point where they are significantly more representative of the "common person" than some aristocratic elite like in high-level churches. (though this applies mostly to Christianity and to some extent Islam)
Meanwhile I do think religion and the laychurch has been important in maintaining traditions and communities, since all cultures ultimately need/develop some sorts of community pillars. Though now we have government funded community centers, historically we had churches. Traditions extending towards common morals and general citizenry education.

On that note, I think most of the problems with the churches that we see, such as diddling children, homophobia, and misogynism, are not accurate representations. Much like seeing some police abuse is not representative of police in the U.S., or a terrorist attack is not representative of the danger the average person faces every day. Media warps our perceptions, though organized church has committed a lot of sin, and I disagree and dislike it's existence, I see the utility. As for the stories, I think people just need to realize that for the most part they are allegories and not 1:1 representations of stuff that happened. Never mind the accuracy of something written a few hundred years after the fact or the actual history of how people fought over the "right bible" until the Vatican stepped in and banned the losers.

Also, Church sermons are so boring, the U.S. has a cool thing with its "hip" churches and "Christian rock" though.

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Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:32 pm

troyguitar wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:15 pm
Zillon wrote:
My problem with traditional churches is severalfold.

- They like to suppress women holding stronger roles
- They're against progressive reproductive rights for women
- They don't pay taxes
- They're very culty
- The whole diddling kids thing
- Against homosexuality (and other sexualities)
- Regressive train of thought

I recently sat through a Catholic wedding mass, and there were several moments that had my wife and I looking at each other in disbelief at what the pastor said. Things that as a kid you don't realize, but as an adult with an open mind, you really question. Things about subservient wives and their role in supporting their husband, per the bible. I wasn't amused.

I'm all for having a good community church that supports the neighborhood and keeps people on the straight and narrow, but this isn't 1812 anymore, man.
Oh my discomfort is simply from the fact that I don't believe so I don't belong. Many of them claim to welcome anyone "no matter where you are in your journey of faith" but it's kind of like being a dude in a women's studies class - you're not explicitly banned but you're not really welcome.

The whole thing with women vowing to obey their husband is beyond :fullretard:
I feel the same.

Wife's sister is having twins, raising them in the Catholic Church and asked my wife to be the godmother. Which means we have to go to the baptism, which I refused. Going to be an ongoing fight with us. I want nothing to do with the church. The kids won't have a "godfather" that I don't believe in anyway. Oh well.
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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