Car talk tré: Carpocalypse Now!

[Johnny_P]

Bob Lutz is a smart guy in general but that statement is as there is not a single vehicle that competes with them on an all around basis as of NOW.

He's old and acts like it. That head in the sand mentality is what's driving Detroit down.

Dismissing what Tesla has accomplished is folly. Regardless of how Elon is, the accomplishments of the company are IMO .

a full nationwide fast charger network that removes all shadow of a doubt if the car can drive between cities, batteries that can charge faster than anyone else's, electric vehicles that flat the fuck out dominate their classes from a performance and range standpoint, a startup company that is now a world player in luxury automotive sales, and the first to bring actual self driving capabilities to the masses without making their cars look like rolling science projects. It's impressive asf.

[Dbest]

He's old and acts like it. That head in the sand mentality is what's driving Detroit down.

Dismissing what Tesla has accomplished is folly. Regardless of how Elon is, the accomplishments of the company are IMO .

a full nationwide fast charger network that removes all shadow of a doubt if the car can drive between cities, batteries that can charge faster than anyone else's, electric vehicles that flat the fuck out dominate their classes from a performance and range standpoint, a startup company that is now a world player in luxury automotive sales, and the first to bring actual self driving capabilities to the masses without making their cars look like rolling science projects. It's impressive asf.

Tesla is not self driving, auto pilot is basically just adaptive cruise control that keeps you in your lane, you can prompt it to do a lane change for you (which honestly who cares), and it can self park in some situations.

[Johnny_P]

a full nationwide fast charger network that removes all shadow of a doubt if the car can drive between cities, batteries that can charge faster than anyone else's, electric vehicles that flat the fuck out dominate their classes from a performance and range standpoint, a startup company that is now a world player in luxury automotive sales, and the first to bring actual self driving capabilities to the masses without making their cars look like rolling science projects. It's impressive asf.

Tesla is not self driving, auto pilot is basically just adaptive cruise control that keeps you in your lane, you can prompt it to do a lane change for you (which honestly who cares), and it can self park in some situations.

I dunno man you can fall asleep at the wheel and it doesn't seem to be much of an issue in most cases, that seems rather self driving to me.

[Johnny_P]

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/20 ... type-drive

https://jalopnik.com/2019-toyota-supra- ... 1829117407

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/firs ... prototype/

We're getting closer. They had reviewers drive the prototype models. IDK why these are still camo'd inside and out. Seems they targeted the Cayman and ended up with something that has the brute force of the 911, the finesse of the Cayman, and apparently a very smooth ride. Steering apparently not super talkative but precise. Lower center of gravity than the 86. 50:50 weight and around 3200 lbs. Engine straight from BMW with only noise changes for Toyota so 340-380 HP expected but louder than the Z4 and supposedly sounds like an old Porsche flat six. Electronically controlled diff. This thing is going to be a monster.

Looks about the same size as a 370Z, with what appears to be similar cargo space to that car.

No word on price.

[Dbest]

Tesla is not self driving, auto pilot is basically just adaptive cruise control that keeps you in your lane, you can prompt it to do a lane change for you (which honestly who cares), and it can self park in some situations.

I dunno man you can fall asleep at the wheel and it doesn't seem to be much of an issue in most cases, that seems rather self driving to me.

Plenty of other manufacturers have the same technology they just limit the amount of time you can take your hands off the steering wheel before it’ll disable itself. It’s like the dude in the Tesla that ran full speed into the back of a stationary truck, their sensors can’t detect/react to stationary objects. It has to see an object moving and then coming to a stop to react to that stopped object. It cannot see or react to stop signs, it won’t turn, it’s in no way linked to the nav system besides looking at speed limits based on the database but it doesn’t even know where you’re going to try to actually take you there. It can pretty much just cruise in a lane going with the flow of traffic. It’s not an advanced system.

[Johnny_P]

I dunno man you can fall asleep at the wheel and it doesn't seem to be much of an issue in most cases, that seems rather self driving to me.

Plenty of other manufacturers have the same technology they just limit the amount of time you can take your hands off the steering wheel before it’ll disable itself. It’s like the dude in the Tesla that ran full speed into the back of a stationary truck, their sensors can’t detect/react to stationary objects. It has to see an object moving and then coming to a stop to react to that stopped object. It cannot see or react to stop signs, it won’t turn, it’s in no way linked to the nav system besides looking at speed limits based on the database but it doesn’t even know where you’re going to try to actually take you there. It can pretty much just cruise in a lane going with the flow of traffic. It’s not an advanced system.

I understand the limitations of the system. IMO Tesla is pushing the boundaries of what people are comfortable buying and using more than other automakers. IMO Cadillac should be leading that charge but hey I don't work for GM.

[max225]

I dunno man you can fall asleep at the wheel and it doesn't seem to be much of an issue in most cases, that seems rather self driving to me.

Plenty of other manufacturers have the same technology they just limit the amount of time you can take your hands off the steering wheel before it’ll disable itself. It’s like the dude in the Tesla that ran full speed into the back of a stationary truck, their sensors can’t detect/react to stationary objects. It has to see an object moving and then coming to a stop to react to that stopped object. It cannot see or react to stop signs, it won’t turn, it’s in no way linked to the nav system besides looking at speed limits based on the database but it doesn’t even know where you’re going to try to actually take you there. It can pretty much just cruise in a lane going with the flow of traffic. It’s not an advanced system.

Are you joking? There is so much misinformation here it isn’t even funny

[Johnny_P]

Nobody cares about Supra reviews and instead wants to talk about limitations of self driving cars?



The end certainly is near.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

[razr390]

Nobody cares about Supra reviews and instead wants to talk about limitations of self driving cars?



The end certainly is near.

They’ve been “it’s almost here” that poor car for the past 2 years. Over hype and under deliver.

[Davestr]

Unlikely. Apple is a design firm that contracts out manufacturing of their products. IIRC they only have a single manufacturing plant of their own that assembles imacs. I can't imagine they'd have much if any interest in purchasing Tesla.

Heated subject here in the Valley, as there is certainly a yuge following of Tesla within apple and vice versa. Hell their software looks identical as does the interface, for a reason. They poach each others best employees constantly. Frankly apple should do it, but I don't think they can handle Musk and or the current mess the company is in. Therefore... meh Apple is super conservative, they have no interest in being in the news daily.

.....or have a NEEDLESS CASH DRAIN on the balance sheet. Tesla is a bleeding anchor.

[Johnny_P]

Nobody cares about Supra reviews and instead wants to talk about limitations of self driving cars?



The end certainly is near.

They’ve been “it’s almost here” that poor car for the past 2 years. Over hype and under deliver.

Yep. Worst automotive roll out in history, aside from the NSX.

[max225]

Heated subject here in the Valley, as there is certainly a yuge following of Tesla within apple and vice versa. Hell their software looks identical as does the interface, for a reason. They poach each others best employees constantly. Frankly apple should do it, but I don't think they can handle Musk and or the current mess the company is in. Therefore... meh Apple is super conservative, they have no interest in being in the news daily.

.....or have a NEEDLESS CASH DRAIN on the balance sheet. Tesla is a bleeding anchor.

They can float Tesla for 100 years

[Davestr]

.....or have a NEEDLESS CASH DRAIN on the balance sheet. Tesla is a bleeding anchor.

They can float Tesla for 100 years

Go right ahead and arrange the deal....good luck.

[max225]

They can float Tesla for 100 years

Go right ahead and arrange the deal....good luck.

I need your order and deposit first

[razr390]

They’ve been “it’s almost here” that poor car for the past 2 years. Over hype and under deliver.

Yep. Worst automotive roll out in history, aside from the NSX.

The only saving grace will be the price. NSX was over hyped, under delivered and overpriced. If Toyota is willing to price this car competitively (at or below Cayman MSRP) then it MIGHT succeed.

[Johnny_P]

Yep. Worst automotive roll out in history, aside from the NSX.

The only saving grace will be the price. NSX was over hyped, under delivered and overpriced. If Toyota is willing to price this car competitively (at or below Cayman MSRP) then it MIGHT succeed.

I wouldn't be surprised if it comes in at $50-60k.

[Dbest]

Did you drink to much Tesla Koolaid or what?

“Tesla Autopilot, later marketed as Enhanced Autopilot after a second hardware version started to be shipped, is an advanced driver-assistance system feature offered by Tesla that has lane centering, adaptive cruise control, self-parking, ability to automatically change lanes without requiring driver steering, and enables the car to be summoned to and from a garage or parking spot. Planned improvements to Enhanced Autopilot include transitioning from one freeway to another and exiting the freeway when the user’s destination is near.

As an upgrade above and beyond Enhanced Autopilot's capabilities, the company's stated intent is to offer full self-driving at a future time, acknowledging that legal, regulatory, and technical hurdles must be overcome to achieve this goal.[2]

As of February 2018, Tesla indicates that a demonstration of a self driving coast to coast drive will be ready in about six months[3], which has been delayed from an initial goal of end of 2017.[4]”

[Davestr]

Go right ahead and arrange the deal....good luck.

I need your order and deposit first

They burn a billion a quarter or more........sell that. There is nothing compelling about what they do. Lutz puts out simple analysis that doesnt fail. Elon cant build a car as structured and make money. Tesla is inherently inefficient as a producer. So that works for Apple huh........good luck with that.

This assessment is about 3 months old and the stock is worth less now........

---If we look at the balance sheet and the value of its assets, it could arguably be worth zero, or less than zero.

If you wanted to buy Tesla, you'd have to spend more than Ford is worth to acquire billions in debt and an EV order book that hundreds of thousands of vehicles from being fulfilled.

What about the factory in Fremont, CA, Tesla's main asset? Nobody wants a car factory in Northern California.

What about the Gigafactory in Nevada? Maybe. But it's part of a long-term deal with the state. So you'd have to take that on.

History lesson: when Chrysler was bailed out and went bankrupt in 2008, nobody wanted any part of the carmaker. The US government has to arrange a shotgun marriage with Fiat and pony up billions in financing.

What about the Tesla brand? Hmmm. It's possible that a Chinese company might see Tesla as an ideal foothold in the US market. This has been much-discussed. But when you get right down to it, Tesla is a debt-laden car company with a couple of iffy sidelines. And those kinds of car companies, if they aren't too big to fail (because they employ hundreds of thousands of people), tend to vanish without a trace.---

[troyguitar]

I wouldn't be surprised if it comes in at $50-60k.

60-80k.

Too much dust from der Deutscheland in that car.

No one is going to buy it for that.

[Johnny_P]

I wouldn't be surprised if it comes in at $50-60k.

60-80k.

Too much dust from der Deutscheland in that car.

Too rich for my blood.

[troyguitar]

Man I love to hate on Ford but I do like this:


I'd so take this before a ZL1 Camaro.

I really like the colors for 2019. If I weren't such a and also knew where the fuck I was going to be living, I'd strongly consider buying a new 2.3T+10AT in Need For Green, Orange Fury, or Velocity Blue. They look fantastic.

[max225]

I need your order and deposit first

They burn a billion a quarter or more........sell that. There is nothing compelling about what they do. Lutz puts out simple analysis that doesnt fail. Elon cant build a car as structured and make money. Tesla is inherently inefficient as a producer. So that works for Apple huh........good luck with that.

This assessment is about 3 months old and the stock is worth less now........

---If we look at the balance sheet and the value of its assets, it could arguably be worth zero, or less than zero.

If you wanted to buy Tesla, you'd have to spend more than Ford is worth to acquire billions in debt and an EV order book that hundreds of thousands of vehicles from being fulfilled.

What about the factory in Fremont, CA, Tesla's main asset? Nobody wants a car factory in Northern California.

What about the Gigafactory in Nevada? Maybe. But it's part of a long-term deal with the state. So you'd have to take that on.

History lesson: when Chrysler was bailed out and went bankrupt in 2008, nobody wanted any part of the carmaker. The US government has to arrange a shotgun marriage with Fiat and pony up billions in financing.

What about the Tesla brand? Hmmm. It's possible that a Chinese company might see Tesla as an ideal foothold in the US market. This has been much-discussed. But when you get right down to it, Tesla is a debt-laden car company with a couple of iffy sidelines. And those kinds of car companies, if they aren't too big to fail (because they employ hundreds of thousands of people), tend to vanish without a trace.---

Dave, I am pretty sure I mentioned Apple has no interest in buying due to leadershit etc. Fremont factory meh... debt yes.

No idea about the future there as there are just as many negative things about them as positive. I am 50/50 on it.

[max225]

Man I love to hate on Ford but I do like this:


I'd so take this before a ZL1 Camaro.

200k worth of MUSTANGs in one pic...

They are nice i really like the new refresh, at first i thought it was fug but it really grew on me.

[max225]

GT Three Fiddy with tech in bru +white stripes for me.