MANUEL Discussion thread.

[CaleDeRoo]

I do often think the auto might suit my S4 better than the manual. I wouldn't mind driving one that's in good shape just to see if my suspicion is true.

I was also very happy my Turo Boxster was a PDK. It let me focus on driving the canyons roads rather than the car so much, but it was still fun enough to flick through the gears. That's situational though as if I were to own one where I currently live I'd rather have a manual for my fun car.

[max225]

I guess the soul searching question I am seeking to have answered is what makes a superior to an auto in your eyes other than having to be more busy when driving. I don't see the point unless the auto is garbage. Most modern automatics are anything but.

[CaleDeRoo]

Are you looking for subjective opinions or objective answers?

[Valkyrie]

I guess the soul searching question I am seeking to have answered is what makes a superior to an auto in your eyes other than having to be more busy when driving. I don't see the point unless the auto is garbage. Most modern automatics are anything but.

Being more busy is literally the point. That's another way to phrase "engagement" - assuming that you don't live in CA where there are no laws/cops, then the only way to enjoy a street car is to be more engaged in the driving experience. Otherwise you can get at least the same experience by watching Fast & Furious...

[Tar]

Honda makes a good manual transmission, CTR is manual only, seems pretty cool to me.

If I bought a M3 I'd spec it with a manual as well.

Things with very shitty auto like the should be purchased with a .

Add C7/mustang to that list for sure... anything with a brawny V8 is cool shit when paired with le shtick.

I'm unsure about the Cayman/911, if I bought one of probably want to row my own but the pdk is really good. If I ever buy a Lotus I'll get one with a third pedal.

GTI/R kind of falls right in the middle depending on what the owner values most.

Old shit like a MR2, exotic whatever Italian, vintage Poorsche, 90s , GTO/C4-6 or whatever should definitely be purchased with a manual tranny IMO.

Everything else is a IMO

[wap]

Who said a DSG is a ?

There are a lot of comparisons in your initial post about how it is reminiscent of a it's flat out

I haven't actually owned a car in 25 years ( I know, ) but I do still find myself missing rowing my own gears almost every day. I drive my DSG in mode like 98% of the time just for the illusion of shifting for myself. For me, I guess it's just the tactility nature of it. The feeling that I'm almost sitting IN the machine surrounded by wheels, switches, levers, pedals, etc. Kinda like what it must have been like to drive a steam locomotive where the engineer was totally immersed in the guts of the thing.

Childish, boyish things I guess.

I literally said I drive in M mode for the ILLUSION of a manual. I know the difference I started driving with le steek. I didn't own or regularly drive an auto for almost 20 years after I got my license.

The rest of the post was why I liked an actual manual.

[D Griff]

While I agree as far as being more engaged. It also feels a lot more dangerous... because you have to deal with a ton more shit while say merging on the freeway. You monitor other drives + on top of that you have execute multiple shifts, ensure engine/trans are all in sync etc.

At least for me it takes up 30% of my attention... which is almost as bad as texting and driving. Which can be quite dangerous... Also in emergency conditions you have at least 1 more pedal to press and an action to make (shifting into neutral)

Wow really? It's completely second nature to me...maybe 5% of my attention at most.

Depends on the person

pun intended but it’s basically “automatic” for me Particularly in most modern cars with a ton of torque and tall gears. Even in my pedestrian four cylinder I can go from 20-85 or more in third gear with plenty of power the entire time.

[D Griff]

I guess the soul searching question I am seeking to have answered is what makes a superior to an auto in your eyes other than having to be more busy when driving. I don't see the point unless the auto is garbage. Most modern automatics are anything but.

Being more busy is literally the point. That's another way to phrase "engagement" - assuming that you don't live in CA where there are no laws/cops, then the only way to enjoy a street car is to be more engaged in the driving experience. Otherwise you can get at least the same experience by watching Fast & Furious...

Exactly, they are objective worse on almost any car from the last 10 years.

As someone who’s never owned an auto but drives them a lot in rentals and stuff I still very much prefer a manual. It’s all about the entertainment factor, street driving is pretty boring and being engaged is fun for me as someone who enjoys driving. This is also legal fun versus something so fast that shifting becomes hard. A 911 Turbo auto sounds actually boring to drive in some scenarios because you’re never able to get anywhere near redline, limits of adhesion, etc.

It’s also gratifying as things like a perfect heel-toe downshift are tricky and it’s satisfying to improve at something and keep working to perfect it.

I will say in an exciting environment like track time or Tail of the Dragon than I’m honestly , paddles or whatever quick auto that does what you tell it to is cool with me.

[max225]

Agree to disagree. Imo that’s impossible. There is nothing “automatic” about having to move 1/2 your limbs in synergy multiple times while maintaining perfect concentration. But we’ll just leave it at that.

Anything else that comes to mind that keeps the alive ?

[max225]

There are a lot of comparisons in your initial post about how it is reminiscent of a it's flat out

I haven't actually owned a car in 25 years ( I know, ) but I do still find myself missing rowing my own gears almost every day. I drive my DSG in mode like 98% of the time just for the illusion of shifting for myself. For me, I guess it's just the tactility nature of it. The feeling that I'm almost sitting IN the machine surrounded by wheels, switches, levers, pedals, etc. Kinda like what it must have been like to drive a steam locomotive where the engineer was totally immersed in the guts of the thing.

Childish, boyish things I guess.

I literally said I drive in M mode for the ILLUSION of a manual. I know the difference I started driving with le steek. I didn't own or regularly drive an auto for almost 20 years after I got my license.

The rest of the post was why I liked an actual manual.

Right my point was just keep focused on actual manuals. Like did you drive a gti with one? And if so why did you go with the dsg.

[wap]

While I agree as far as being more engaged. It also feels a lot more dangerous... because you have to deal with a ton more shit while say merging on the freeway. You monitor other drives + on top of that you have execute multiple shifts, ensure engine/trans are all in sync etc.

At least for me it takes up 30% of my attention... which is almost as bad as texting and driving. Which can be quite dangerous... Also in emergency conditions you have at least 1 more pedal to press and an action to make (shifting into neutral)

Wow really? It's completely second nature to me...maybe 5% of my attention at most.

Depends on the person

Didn't even think about it. It's like not thinking about how you move your feet to walk up stairs.

[wap]

I guess the soul searching question I am seeking to have answered is what makes a superior to an auto in your eyes other than having to be more busy when driving. I don't see the point unless the auto is garbage. Most modern automatics are anything but.

Being more busy is literally the point. That's another way to phrase "engagement" - assuming that you don't live in CA where there are no laws/cops, then the only way to enjoy a street car is to be more engaged in the driving experience. Otherwise you can get at least the same experience by watching Fast & Furious...

[Valkyrie]

Agree to disagree. Imo that’s impossible. There is nothing “automatic” about having to move 1/2 your limbs in synergy multiple times while maintaining perfect concentration. But we’ll just leave it at that.

Anything else that comes to mind that keeps the alive ?

I'm with you on that part, even after all the years on racetracks I still definitely am actively involved in the process of driving even in a parking lot situation.

I think that's exactly what keeps it alive. Similarly, mechanical watches are still being produced. Why? They're technically worse in every way and more expensive and complicated to operate than digital automatics...

[Valkyrie]

Wow really? It's completely second nature to me...maybe 5% of my attention at most.

Depends on the person

Didn't even think about it. It's like not thinking about how you move your feet to walk up stairs.

I still fall up the stairs at an alarming rate. (and that's in flats, heels are their own world)

[wap]

I literally said I drive in M mode for the ILLUSION of a manual. I know the difference I started driving with le steek. I didn't own or regularly drive an auto for almost 20 years after I got my license.

The rest of the post was why I liked an actual manual.

Right my point was just keep focused on actual manuals. Like did you drive a gti with one? And if so why did you go with the dsg.

100% the only reason I went DSG was because of

[wap]

Didn't even think about it. It's like not thinking about how you move your feet to walk up stairs.

I still fall up the stairs at an alarming rate. (and that's in flats, heels are their own world)

[Tar]

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/Chevrolet/C ... t=carousel

[max225]

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/Chevrolet/C ... t=carousel

That’s like 60k too high ? Also thread ?

[max225]

Right my point was just keep focused on actual manuals. Like did you drive a gti with one? And if so why did you go with the dsg.

100% the only reason I went DSG was because of

drives your car ? You’ve not mentioned it once

[Johnny_P]

To be honest I have been wondering the same question for some time.

I think I’d have liked the STI even more if it had a dual clutch transmission.

Like I don’t think the 10AT in the camaro SS left anything at all to be desired. I fail to see how the MT would add anything to it.

I only became a manual nerd when I was looking for my first car. Which was an underpowered 2000’s shitbox 4 cyl which was a ton slower with an automatic vs the manual. Anymore I really don’t care as that gap is gone or reversed in most cases.

[Tar]

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/Chevrolet/C ... t=carousel

That’s like 60k too high ? Also thread ?

I find it relevant to this thread because it's the first auto only Corvette, still seems like a very exciting car and I would love one in whorange way down the road.

[max225]

That’s like 60k too high ? Also thread ?

I find it relevant to this thread because it's the first auto only Corvette, still seems like a very exciting car and I would love one in whorange way down the road.

Would a manual make it better ?

[Tar]

I find it relevant to this thread because it's the first auto only Corvette, still seems like a very exciting car and I would love one in whorange way down the road.

Would a manual make it better ?

Not for me in this case, I think going with auto makes the most sense because of how much of a handful it probably already is. Plus GM probably doesn't care because the take rate is so high that they'll all get sold before they're built.

[D Griff]

I find it relevant to this thread because it's the first auto only Corvette, still seems like a very exciting car and I would love one in whorange way down the road.

Would a manual make it better ?

Probably not and that's why I doubt a C8 is really that much fun as a street car. Like I mentioned, on a track or true high performance driving scenario, an auto that actually listens to inputs from the paddles, holds gears, and shifts quickly would be just as fun. Street driving is boring so the makes it entertaining. I think stuff like C8 Corvettes are just too fast and capable to get anywhere near the threshold of fun on normal roads most people have access to. Hell, even on canyon roads, it's I could certainly see killing myself on something like Tail of the Dragon much more quickly in a car with that kind of power. I would love to give a C8 a go around VIR or something, but outside of that I'm not all that interested. It's an amazing car but pretty pointless for me.

I like driving and 95% of what I do is just putzing around where drama/involvement/engagement far trumps performance to make things entertaining.

[D Griff]

I did think of another reason and I know I'll get made fun of for this one, but I imagine I'm not the only one. It's image. We as humans all strive to be interesting, unique, memorable, likeable, whatever. This manifests in many ways, for some people they take a lot of pride in the watch they wear, the job they have, we all have a long list. I know but I find a tiny bit of satisfaction when someone gets in my car and they're like 'oh wow, you drive a manual every day?' I'd say at least 90% of people notice and make a point to ask about it.