General Economic chit chat/updates.

[max225]

Man, retirement talk. The Big "R" has been looming LARGE in my thoughts the last few months. I know I'm closer than most (all?) here to hanging up the oar for good, but I'm still not quite sure how I'll know when it's "time". Those days where I think maybe in another year or 2 are starting to way outnumber those days where I think I can go 5-8 more years as I watch my once-rising star slowly sink toward the horizon at work. After 30+ years here I'm now definitely convinced that I'm on a downward arc here, career wise. It's inevitable, I guess, but I confess to being a bit surprised at how quickly it's happening. wap:
I have to sit down with our financial guy and have a serious convo regarding my financial situation. Probably do that next year then .

You don't have to sit too long with your financial guy to run the math on you and the Mrs. monthly financial burn rate. Add on to that the amount of money each month you need to have fun/be free. I assume for you that means travel, yes?

Next up, I assume your wife has quit working for good? What happens when Ron and the wifepiece are looking at each over ham sandwiches at lunch every day? Is that good or bad? If it's bad, you need a part time gig, preferably one with some subsidized health care. Or she does. Or both of you do. Going to be honest with you, I'm with my wife all the time but it is with the backdrop of work, chores, or vacation from the same. I don't think we're ready for 24/7/365 ham sandwiches bro.

Yea you really don't need a "guy" to figure out simple math.
A) spend 3k on shelter
B)spend 2k on food
C) spend 2k on entertainment and travel
D) emergency/random buffer a month 1k

8k monthly burn +3% annually X how many years you plan on "living". That's how much money you need to retire... now subtract that from your current net worth and passive incomes, as long as the net worth is stable...

The problem is 401ks can/have taken a solid beating over the last 24 months and are about to get some more pain for the next couple of years, so.. yea.

[Valkyrie]

Don't forget $2k+ per month on healthcare in THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!

[max225]

Don't forget $2k+ per month on healthcare in THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!

Yep. That can be a big one. But i'd keep an open mind because things can be changed around... like housing etc by moving locations/even countries.

[wap]

Financial dood manages most of our investments outside of our 401k's, and he doesn't charge for advice so why not have a sit-down? I've never put together a spreadsheet of monthly expenses. I suppose I should start, but I'm exactly what that spreadsheet should look like. Open to suggestions from the collective DFD mind on this. Roughly, I know that we survive just fine on my take-home pay so that's what we'd most likely aim for to retire on.

Most definitely on the bolded.

Wifepiece is passively looking for work. Thing is, she hates lawyering but that's the only thing she's qualified to do. She's recently done a few things here and there which she's enjoyed, but there hasn't been much money in it. She'd like to work for a nonprofit of some sort, ideally close to home for short commute reasons. She's earned the right to be selective in her search, IMO, so it'll be what it'll be. I just hope/want her to find something with health care, which is probably the single biggest hindrance to retiring early-ish. 'Murica...

We have shared interests and plenty of our own shit to keep us busy and out of each other's hair day to day, I believe. Won't know for sure until the time comes,

So how does he get paid if he doesn't "Charge you" anything ? these cocksuckers usually take a 1-3% fee annually from all your investments. It's buried in the financial products that they "sell" to you.

I meant he doesn't charge for his time if I want to sit down with him and discuss whatever. We've been going to him for 25 years and he's handled other family members for 35 years. He gave me literally DOZENS of hours of his time over 2 years when he helped me close my late uncle's estate, including spending hours of his time on calls to the IRS, and didn't charge me a fucking dime, nor did he make a dime elsewhere for it. In fact, I ended taking him and his wife out to dinner for his trouble. Yes, he makes a percent or 2 on our investments and for all the extra things he's done for us over the decades, I'm good with that.

[wap]

You don't have to sit too long with your financial guy to run the math on you and the Mrs. monthly financial burn rate. Add on to that the amount of money each month you need to have fun/be free. I assume for you that means travel, yes?

Next up, I assume your wife has quit working for good? What happens when Ron and the wifepiece are looking at each over ham sandwiches at lunch every day? Is that good or bad? If it's bad, you need a part time gig, preferably one with some subsidized health care. Or she does. Or both of you do. Going to be honest with you, I'm with my wife all the time but it is with the backdrop of work, chores, or vacation from the same. I don't think we're ready for 24/7/365 ham sandwiches bro.

Yea you really don't need a "guy" to figure out simple math.
A) spend 3k on shelter
B)spend 2k on food
C) spend 2k on entertainment and travel
D) emergency/random buffer a month 1k

8k monthly burn +3% annually X how many years you plan on "living". That's how much money you need to retire... now subtract that from your current net worth and passive incomes, as long as the net worth is stable...

The problem is 401ks can/have taken a solid beating over the last 24 months and are about to get some more pain for the next couple of years, so.. yea.

[wap]

Don't forget $2k+ per month on healthcare in THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!

It's a yuuge consideration and a major reason why so many people can't retire when they want to.

[D Griff]

I find it that some people can't come up with anything to do with their time besides work. The lack of inspiration/satisfaction in anything besides getting money is fascinating.

I don’t mind working really and it makes me appreciate my time away from it more…but yeah, I’d love to dedicate more time to cycling, take better care of the house, travel, learn Spanish, start guitar again, play tuba in a brass quintet, volunteer more with the local environmental group I do a bit with… long list and I think I’d be plenty just sans work.

Thing is, without a lot of money I feel like I’d need 2X the money because with unlimited personal time, I’d spend more.

[D Griff]

Don't forget $2k+ per month on healthcare in THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!

It's a yuuge consideration and a major reason why so many people can't retire when they want to.

I’m all in on my HSA now, hopefully that helps someday.

[Valkyrie]

I find it that some people can't come up with anything to do with their time besides work. The lack of inspiration/satisfaction in anything besides getting money is fascinating.

I don’t mind working really and it makes me appreciate my time away from it more…but yeah, I’d love to dedicate more time to cycling, take better care of the house, travel, learn Spanish, start guitar again, play tuba in a brass quintet, volunteer more with the local environmental group I do a bit with… long list and I think I’d be plenty just sans work.

Thing is, without a lot of money I feel like I’d need 2X the money because with unlimited personal time, I’d spend more.

That's pretty much me except I'm not sure if I'd spend more. I'd certainly like to spend more because I don't particularly enjoy cooking or yard work and would rather spend my time on almost anything else

Especially now I wish I could volunteer in all sorts of ways like 3000 hours a week. So many people here need so much help and I have the skills but not the time to help them.

[golftdibrad1]

It's a yuuge consideration and a major reason why so many people can't retire when they want to.

I’m all in on my HSA now, hopefully that helps someday.

it wont they will steal it when they finally socialize healthcare

[golftdibrad1]

Yea you really don't need a "guy" to figure out simple math.
A) spend 3k on shelter
B)spend 2k on food
C) spend 2k on entertainment and travel
D) emergency/random buffer a month 1k

8k monthly burn +3% annually X how many years you plan on "living". That's how much money you need to retire... now subtract that from your current net worth and passive incomes, as long as the net worth is stable...

The problem is 401ks can/have taken a solid beating over the last 24 months and are about to get some more pain for the next couple of years, so.. yea.

If you retire and your house is not paid off you are doing it very, very wrong.

So how does he get paid if he doesn't "Charge you" anything ? these cocksuckers usually take a 1-3% fee annually from all your investments. It's buried in the financial products that they "sell" to you.

I meant he doesn't charge for his time.....Yes, he makes a percent or 2 on our investments

I can't even. Do the math (if you can) on how much he's made on you. Use the mans services for what you are most definitely paying him for.

Don't forget $2k+ per month on healthcare in THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!

[max225]

Paid off house is irrelevant. You still have property tax expense, repair/upkeep etc nothing is “free” just like advice from your “financial advisor”.

The numbers I used were general placeholders. One can spend 30k or $300 in a shithole somewhere. Use your own current run rate as you wish.

The point was that the major living expenses are easily quantifiable and it’s not hard to do.

[golftdibrad1]

Paid off house is irrelevant. You still have property tax expense, repair/upkeep etc nothing is “free” just like advice from your “financial advisor”.

The numbers I used were general placeholders. One can spend 30k or $300 in a shithole somewhere. Use your own current run rate as you wish.

The point was that the major living expenses are easily quantifiable and it’s not hard to do.

Fair point good sir. You will indeed continue to have housing expenses.

[wap]

It's a yuuge consideration and a major reason why so many people can't retire when they want to.

I’m all in on my HSA now, hopefully that helps someday.

#metoo. I had to burn through all of mine when I had my heart surgery a few years ago, but I'm building it back up. It should help for a while, until I can get on Medicare plus whatever supplement is required, unless something from a HC exchange makes sense in the meantime.

[coogles]

Paid off house is irrelevant. You still have property tax expense, repair/upkeep etc nothing is “free” just like advice from your “financial advisor”.

The numbers I used were general placeholders. One can spend 30k or $300 in a shithole somewhere. Use your own current run rate as you wish.

The point was that the major living expenses are easily quantifiable and it’s not hard to do.

Having a paid off house by the time one retires is not irrelevant. Most ppl have less income during retirement than they do during their working years. Eliminating obligations prior to that income reduction is a good idea.

[wap]

Paid off house is irrelevant. You still have property tax expense, repair/upkeep etc nothing is “free” just like advice from your “financial advisor”.

The numbers I used were general placeholders. One can spend 30k or $300 in a shithole somewhere. Use your own current run rate as you wish.

The point was that the major living expenses are easily quantifiable and it’s not hard to do.

Having a paid off house by the time one retires is not irrelevant. Most ppl have less income during retirement than they do during their working years. Eliminating obligations prior to that income reduction is a good idea.

is how I see it, too. Eliminating a 4 figure monthly spend seems pretty relevant to me.

[max225]

The point is... lets say the house is 500k... and you paid it off... congrats now you most likely have most of your money tied up in the house itself without being able to access it, unless you "borrow" against it or do a reverse cash out mortgage.

So is that lack of "monthly" payment really that impactful? IMO that's thinking really small. Say you can take that 500k and make more than the rent of an equivalent property. Many many variables here but simply paying off a house is not a goal. I can do it today. But I would be a god damn fool to do it.

[Valkyrie]

The point is... lets say the house is 500k... and you paid it off... congrats now you most likely have most of your money tied up in the house itself without being able to access it, unless you "borrow" against it or do a reverse cash out mortgage.

So is that lack of "monthly" payment really that impactful? IMO that's thinking really small. Say you can take that 500k and make more than the rent of an equivalent property. Many many variables here but simply paying off a house is not a goal. I can do it today. But I would be a god damn fool to do it.

This. Putting so many of your eggs in one house-shaped basket isn't necessarily smart. Especially for those of us with low interest rates, paying off a house early is statistically a bad idea. I'll let that 3.25% loan roll for the full 30 years but hopefully be in a position to retire long before that time. The 30 years will be up a few months after we turn 65.

[wap]

The point is... lets say the house is 500k... and you paid it off... congrats now you most likely have most of your money tied up in the house itself without being able to access it, unless you "borrow" against it or do a reverse cash out mortgage.

So is that lack of "monthly" payment really that impactful? IMO that's thinking really small. Say you can take that 500k and make more than the rent of an equivalent property. Many many variables here but simply paying off a house is not a goal. I can do it today. But I would be a god damn fool to do it.

How does your calculus change if the bolded is not the case?

[coogles]

The point is... lets say the house is 500k... and you paid it off... congrats now you most likely have most of your money tied up in the house itself without being able to access it, unless you "borrow" against it or do a reverse cash out mortgage.

So is that lack of "monthly" payment really that impactful? IMO that's thinking really small. Say you can take that 500k and make more than the rent of an equivalent property. Many many variables here but simply paying off a house is not a goal. I can do it today. But I would be a god damn fool to do it.

While maybe that's technically correct, the vast majority of people who, rather than get a 15 or 20 year mortgage, get a 30 year and actually do something financially productive the the monthly difference is close to 0%. I'm also talking more broadly about the average household, not someone with a higher income. A household making $80k per year isn't going to have loads of money to invest in a brokerage account to build wealth outside of their tax advantaged retirement accounts. They're going to have some income from a 401k/IRA or in rare cases a pension in retirement, some from social security, and that's it. It'll be something less than 100% of their pre-retirement income. And for those people, not having a house that's paid for means they might have to keep working even if they don't want to. Like, oh, my MIL.

[max225]

The point is... lets say the house is 500k... and you paid it off... congrats now you most likely have most of your money tied up in the house itself without being able to access it, unless you "borrow" against it or do a reverse cash out mortgage.

So is that lack of "monthly" payment really that impactful? IMO that's thinking really small. Say you can take that 500k and make more than the rent of an equivalent property. Many many variables here but simply paying off a house is not a goal. I can do it today. But I would be a god damn fool to do it.

How does your calculus change if the bolded is not the case?

It doesn't, a point was made that paying off a house is some sort or retirement goal. I think that just points to a general financial health picture, but not the goal itself.

I would say the retirement goal is to have passive income that exceeds/matches living expenses.

By age 65 a house doesn't generate any passive income whatsoever and it ties up most peoples net worth. Perhaps some appreciation, but there may be far better income generators. I also find homes to be huge liabilities.

[max225]

The point is... lets say the house is 500k... and you paid it off... congrats now you most likely have most of your money tied up in the house itself without being able to access it, unless you "borrow" against it or do a reverse cash out mortgage.

So is that lack of "monthly" payment really that impactful? IMO that's thinking really small. Say you can take that 500k and make more than the rent of an equivalent property. Many many variables here but simply paying off a house is not a goal. I can do it today. But I would be a god damn fool to do it.

While maybe that's technically correct, the vast majority of people who, rather than get a 15 or 20 year mortgage, get a 30 year and actually do something financially productive the the monthly difference is close to 0%. I'm also talking more broadly about the average household, not someone with a higher income. A household making $80k per year isn't going to have loads of money to invest in a brokerage account to build wealth outside of their tax advantaged retirement accounts. They're going to have some income from a 401k/IRA or in rare cases a pension in retirement, some from social security, and that's it. It'll be something less than 100% of their pre-retirement income. And for those people, not having a house that's paid for means they might have to keep working even if they don't want to. Like, oh, my MIL.

Yea I am not sure how a 80k household can purchase a house in the united states. This suggests a 300k property or so which is far below the average, however there are regions where it is doable. Currently homes don't seem financially feasible after the last 5 year run on homes as iNveStmEnTs. It priced the average american out of the average home, this has got to get corrected.

[wap]

We're not counting on our to generate any income for us, other than not having a monthly mortgage payment. Most of our dough is in other things. 401k's, IRA's, Roths, annuities, life insurance, REIT's, not having CF, etc.

[max225]

We're not counting on our to generate any income for us, other than not having a monthly mortgage payment. Most of our dough is in other things. 401k's, IRA's, Roths, annuities, life insurance, REIT's, not having CF, etc.

Makes sense. It sounds like your financial picture is in good shape.

[wap]

We're not counting on our to generate any income for us, other than not having a monthly mortgage payment. Most of our dough is in other things. 401k's, IRA's, Roths, annuities, life insurance, REIT's, not having CF, etc.

Makes sense. It sounds like your financial picture is in good shape.