Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times

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Huckleberry wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:01 pm Speaking of shitbag dealerships and their prices.

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This is the same dealer who had a leftover 2017 :manuel: Frontier that I looked at in January of 2018. I looked up the True Car price, which was $2 or $3k under their "discounted" price, printed it out, and gave it to them. They basically said, "Yeah, we're not honoring that."
Hah
What a mess
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Johnny_P wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:52 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:13 pm

:notsure: what these guys charge. But tire rotation is $19.95 + a $5 off :scroogepon: for oil change. https://www.piazzahondaphiladelphia.com ... /index.htm
That dealership group is the one that flat out lied about the price of their vehicles, and tried to sell me a $32k car for $45k otd after trade in.
Yea and I get my $55 oil changes at a Honda dealer that tried to sell me a 29k Civic for 41k otd. :aintcare:
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max225 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:50 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:52 pm

That dealership group is the one that flat out lied about the price of their vehicles, and tried to sell me a $32k car for $45k otd after trade in.
Yea and I get my $55 oil changes at a Honda dealer that tried to sell me a 29k Civic for 41k otd. :aintcare:
I miss Subaru.
This Honda ownership experience has been a total turd.
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Johnny_P wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:46 pm
golftdibrad1 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:33 pm

By making cars more expensive, complicated, for vastly diminishing returns? When air quality is near background with no cars?

maybe they should declare mission accomplished and focus resources on other sources of pollution. Or stabilize their power grid for all the electric cars. CARB is just a bureaucracy that fuels itself at this point.
They absolutely should be focusing on their grid and power generation sources, as should the rest of the country.

Moving the goal posts is not a bad thing as we learn more about various pollutants and their negative effects on the human body. I worked in a refinery for 11 years. I know plenty about OSHA permissible exposure levels. And I know the disproportionate amount of people ended up getting cancer and dying from it while I worked there.
Bold: Sure, but it needs to be evidence based. These days...its not.

Italics: Anecdotal. What were other risk factors. Did these people smoke and drink? Diet? Refinery workers aint known in general for being specimens of health. Not to say there is not something to this, because I lived in 'cancer alley' in LA where we had significantly higher weird cancer in industrial worker populations. Still ain't found a single cause bad actor. But its also not a ton of people over background....and we ain't exactly a city on the hill as an example of healthy living. However, changes need to be evidence based. And the chemicals used in the product =/= the product.

But you've made my point: focus more on the things that will help the most people. General air quality in CA is no longer the threat it was, move along to something else to help the population.
Desertbreh wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:28 pm I'm happy for Brad because nobody jerks it to the Miata harder on this forum and that is the Crown Prince of Miatas.
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Johnny_P wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:55 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:50 pm

Yea and I get my $55 oil changes at a Honda dealer that tried to sell me a 29k Civic for 41k otd. :aintcare:
I miss Subaru.
My buddy is getting $750 30k mile services on his wifes Cross Trek... I am not sure its a brand. Its just finding a decent dealer. I even told him dude :wtf: are you doing, but SHE wants it dealer services so off he goes to rape.
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golftdibrad1 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:57 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:46 pm

They absolutely should be focusing on their grid and power generation sources, as should the rest of the country.

Moving the goal posts is not a bad thing as we learn more about various pollutants and their negative effects on the human body. I worked in a refinery for 11 years. I know plenty about OSHA permissible exposure levels. And I know the disproportionate amount of people ended up getting cancer and dying from it while I worked there.
Bold: Sure, but it needs to be evidence based. These days...its not.

Italics: Anecdotal. What were other risk factors. Did these people smoke and drink? Diet? Refinery workers aint known in general for being specimens of health. Not to say there is not something to this, because I lived in 'cancer alley' in LA where we had significantly higher weird cancer in industrial worker populations. Still ain't found a single cause bad actor. But its also not a ton of people over background....and we ain't exactly a city on the hill as an example of healthy living. However, changes need to be evidence based. And the chemicals used in the product =/= the product.

But you've made my point: focus more on the things that will help the most people. General air quality in CA is no longer the threat it was, move along to something else to help the population.
We had horrendous AQI due to fires for the last 4/5 years... but yea that's another issue altogether. We all gonna die some day.
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max225 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:58 pm
golftdibrad1 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:57 pm

Bold: Sure, but it needs to be evidence based. These days...its not.

Italics: Anecdotal. What were other risk factors. Did these people smoke and drink? Diet? Refinery workers aint known in general for being specimens of health. Not to say there is not something to this, because I lived in 'cancer alley' in LA where we had significantly higher weird cancer in industrial worker populations. Still ain't found a single cause bad actor. But its also not a ton of people over background....and we ain't exactly a city on the hill as an example of healthy living. However, changes need to be evidence based. And the chemicals used in the product =/= the product.

But you've made my point: focus more on the things that will help the most people. General air quality in CA is no longer the threat it was, move along to something else to help the population.
We had horrendous AQI due to fires for the last 4/5 years... but yea that's another issue altogether. We all gonna die some day.
I bet fires are far worse for air quality than vehicles, and it impacts all of us. I remember days of smoke haze in northern MI last year from fires in CA and Oregon. Just nuts. that smoke could spread over 2500 miles. Can't imagine the OZone likes that.

To Brad's point, perhaps it's time to stop vilifying individual transportation and focus on other bigger problems like fires and water. But that's probably way too hard.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:11 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:58 pm
We had horrendous AQI due to fires for the last 4/5 years... but yea that's another issue altogether. We all gonna die some day.
I bet fires are far worse for air quality than vehicles, and it impacts all of us. I remember days of smoke haze in northern MI last year from fires in CA and Oregon. Just nuts. that smoke could spread over 2500 miles. Can't imagine the OZone likes that.

To Brad's point, perhaps it's time to stop vilifying individual transportation and focus on other bigger problems like fires and water. But that's probably way too hard.
Amen on bolded.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:11 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:58 pm
We had horrendous AQI due to fires for the last 4/5 years... but yea that's another issue altogether. We all gonna die some day.
I bet fires are far worse for air quality than vehicles, and it impacts all of us. I remember days of smoke haze in northern MI last year from fires in CA and Oregon. Just nuts. that smoke could spread over 2500 miles. Can't imagine the OZone likes that.

To Brad's point, perhaps it's time to stop vilifying individual transportation and focus on other bigger problems like fires and water. But that's probably way too hard.
That would require the people that manage these resources (gov bureaucrats) to do their job, vs blaming someone else (individuals, big corporations).

Whatcha think the avg gov working gonna do?
Desertbreh wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:28 pm I'm happy for Brad because nobody jerks it to the Miata harder on this forum and that is the Crown Prince of Miatas.
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max225 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:57 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:55 pm

I miss Subaru.
My buddy is getting $750 30k mile services on his wifes Cross Trek... I am not sure its a brand. Its just finding a decent dealer. I even told him dude :wtf: are you doing, but SHE wants it dealer services so off he goes to rape.
Hah. Subaru was $65 oil change with free wiper blades for me.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:11 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:58 pm
We had horrendous AQI due to fires for the last 4/5 years... but yea that's another issue altogether. We all gonna die some day.
I bet fires are far worse for air quality than vehicles, and it impacts all of us. I remember days of smoke haze in northern MI last year from fires in CA and Oregon. Just nuts. that smoke could spread over 2500 miles. Can't imagine the OZone likes that.

To Brad's point, perhaps it's time to stop vilifying individual transportation and focus on other bigger problems like fires and water. But that's probably way too hard.
Nah dawg, EVs will solve all.
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Johnny_P wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:39 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:57 pm

My buddy is getting $750 30k mile services on his wifes Cross Trek... I am not sure its a brand. Its just finding a decent dealer. I even told him dude :wtf: are you doing, but SHE wants it dealer services so off he goes to rape.
Hah. Subaru was $65 oil change with free wiper blades for me.
I haven't actually purchased the car yet, but so far my Subie :dillerman: has been 5/7.
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I worked a contract earlier this year to help our org start using satellite imagery to help predict and prevent wildfire spread :neat: I can try to get more info on it if anyone is interested.
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Huckleberry wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:01 pm Speaking of shitbag dealerships and their prices.

Image

This is the same dealer who had a leftover 2017 :manuel: Frontier that I looked at in January of 2018. I looked up the True Car price, which was $2 or $3k under their "discounted" price, printed it out, and gave it to them. They basically said, "Yeah, we're not honoring that."
Is that dealer high off his ass thinking anyone can pay that much for it?
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D Griff wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:38 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:11 pm
I bet fires are far worse for air quality than vehicles, and it impacts all of us. I remember days of smoke haze in northern MI last year from fires in CA and Oregon. Just nuts. that smoke could spread over 2500 miles. Can't imagine the OZone likes that.

To Brad's point, perhaps it's time to stop vilifying individual transportation and focus on other bigger problems like fires and water. But that's probably way too hard.
Nah dawg, EVs will solve all.
Image
Desertbreh wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:28 pm I'm happy for Brad because nobody jerks it to the Miata harder on this forum and that is the Crown Prince of Miatas.
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MexicanYarisTK wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:21 pm
Huckleberry wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:01 pm Speaking of shitbag dealerships and their prices.

Image

This is the same dealer who had a leftover 2017 :manuel: Frontier that I looked at in January of 2018. I looked up the True Car price, which was $2 or $3k under their "discounted" price, printed it out, and gave it to them. They basically said, "Yeah, we're not honoring that."
Is that dealer high off his ass thinking anyone can pay that much for it?
I think the dealer just doesn't care. List it for some stupid amount of money and see if any rich idiots stumble through the door. If no one buys it, knock $10k off, advertise the discounted price, and see if any rich idiots stumble through the door. Rinse. Repeat.
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golftdibrad1 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:09 am
D Griff wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:38 pm

Nah dawg, EVs will solve all.
Image
Sarcastic. I'm certainly down with EVs and think they are AN answer to SOME problems... but they are being treated as a cure all and they really have 90% of the same problem as ICE vehicles.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:33 am
golftdibrad1 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:09 am

Image
Sarcastic. I'm certainly down with EVs and think they are AN answer to SOME problems... but they are being treated as a cure all and they really have 90% of the same problem as ICE vehicles.
In the next 20-30 odd years I can see the strong case for one car of a two car household to be EV, or we could return to sanity and make more Volt like hybrids with decent EV range.

You wont see power equipment and long haul trucking transition in our lifetime without some battery breakthrough that 10x'es the energy density, and even then you have to figure a way to get all those batteries full in 8-10 hours every day. Not to mention where the electricity will come from.
Desertbreh wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:28 pm I'm happy for Brad because nobody jerks it to the Miata harder on this forum and that is the Crown Prince of Miatas.
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max225 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:57 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:55 pm

I miss Subaru.
My buddy is getting $750 30k mile services on his wifes Cross Trek... I am not sure its a brand. Its just finding a decent dealer. I even told him dude :wtf: are you doing, but SHE wants it dealer services so off he goes to rape.
This is supposed to include new front and rear dif oil (front diff is in the trans so this might be new cvt fluid), new break fluid, drive belt adjustments etc.
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:34 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:57 pm

My buddy is getting $750 30k mile services on his wifes Cross Trek... I am not sure its a brand. Its just finding a decent dealer. I even told him dude :wtf: are you doing, but SHE wants it dealer services so off he goes to rape.
This is supposed to include new front and rear dif oil (front diff is in the trans so this might be new cvt fluid), new break fluid, drive belt adjustments etc.
Oil change + Cabin + air filter. None of the other stuff. I have seen the bills. It's :disgust:
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max225 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:39 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:34 pm

This is supposed to include new front and rear dif oil (front diff is in the trans so this might be new cvt fluid), new break fluid, drive belt adjustments etc.
Oil change + Cabin + air filter. None of the other stuff. I have seen the bills. It's :disgust:
:wtf:
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golftdibrad1 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:43 am
D Griff wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:33 am

Sarcastic. I'm certainly down with EVs and think they are AN answer to SOME problems... but they are being treated as a cure all and they really have 90% of the same problem as ICE vehicles.
In the next 20-30 odd years I can see the strong case for one car of a two car household to be EV, or we could return to sanity and make more Volt like hybrids with decent EV range.

You wont see power equipment and long haul trucking transition in our lifetime without some battery breakthrough that 10x'es the energy density, and even then you have to figure a way to get all those batteries full in 8-10 hours every day. Not to mention where the electricity will come from.
I think I'd like a plug in type thing but I really would like the wife to daily it, not me (I don't actually daily drive anything). I generally only drive a couple of times/week.

She is actually interviewing for a job that would be primarily remote as well, so we'll see how that goes.
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max225 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:39 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:34 pm

This is supposed to include new front and rear dif oil (front diff is in the trans so this might be new cvt fluid), new break fluid, drive belt adjustments etc.
Oil change + Cabin + air filter. None of the other stuff. I have seen the bills. It's :disgust:
They should go back and get the rest then 😂
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D Griff wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:50 pm
golftdibrad1 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:43 am

In the next 20-30 odd years I can see the strong case for one car of a two car household to be EV, or we could return to sanity and make more Volt like hybrids with decent EV range.

You wont see power equipment and long haul trucking transition in our lifetime without some battery breakthrough that 10x'es the energy density, and even then you have to figure a way to get all those batteries full in 8-10 hours every day. Not to mention where the electricity will come from.
I think I'd like a plug in type thing but I really would like the wife to daily it, not me (I don't actually daily drive anything). I generally only drive a couple of times/week.

She is actually interviewing for a job that would be primarily remote as well, so we'll see how that goes.
The only ones that don't make you feel like you're giving up are 6 digits.
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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Desertbreh wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:08 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:50 pm

I think I'd like a plug in type thing but I really would like the wife to daily it, not me (I don't actually daily drive anything). I generally only drive a couple of times/week.

She is actually interviewing for a job that would be primarily remote as well, so we'll see how that goes.
The only ones that don't make you feel like you're giving up are 6 digits.
Yep I love the idea of it, the actual options, not so much.

:aintcare: for now, we’ll just rock the Beep Beep and BRZ.
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