DFD

Gberg2119 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:21 pm Walking into OT like



Leaving OT like.

Or as we say, Just another Tuesday.

dubshow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:15 pm

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:51 pm


You should OT more.

he new here.

Nah, joined in 2017. He just doesn't DFD enough.

Gberg2119 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:21 pm Walking into OT like



Leaving OT like.

Nah. Sit on down. The fire is roaring. Perfect for making some s'mores.

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:23 pm

dubshow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:15 pm

he new here.

Nah, joined in 2017. He just doesn't DFD enough.

78 post seems pretty damn new. I guess its like a low miles classic car then?

[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:19 pm

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:16 pm Here is a chart that shows what early adoption of social distancing can do. Little basket-case Greece immediately clamped down on social distancing after the numbers in Italy first started to rise. Spain, Belgium, Portugal, and of course others did not. This is what government is doing it right looks like.


https://greece.greekreporter.com/2020/0 ... us-deaths/

https://greece.greekreporter.com/2020/0 ... atalities/

That's what flattening the curve by shutting down society early looks like. It works, especially when done early. And there is no Marshall Law. The police are just handing out warnings and fines - over 4 million Euro worth to date.

I mean, Greece didn't have much to lose in terms of an economy, so they were ahead of the curve.

They are (were) on a definite comeback. 2019 saw significant growth and at the beginning of this year they were projecting up to 4% growth for 2020. Now they're projecting a recession.

dubshow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:24 pm

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:23 pm

Nah, joined in 2017. He just doesn't DFD enough.

78 post seems pretty damn new. I guess its like a low miles classic car then?

Aged like a fine wine.

dubshow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:19 pm

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:16 pm Here is a chart that shows what early adoption of social distancing can do. Little basket-case Greece immediately clamped down on social distancing after the numbers in Italy first started to rise. Spain, Belgium, Portugal, and of course others did not. This is what government is doing it right looks like.


https://greece.greekreporter.com/2020/0 ... us-deaths/

https://greece.greekreporter.com/2020/0 ... atalities/

That's what flattening the curve by shutting down society early looks like. It works, especially when done early. And there is no Marshall Law. The police are just handing out warnings and fines - over 4 million Euro worth to date.

Greece is also a far cry from an economic power house. Its actually just a slug resting on the EU rock.

The point of the graphs is that jumping on the social distancing early works. The relative economic health of the country is irrelevant to that.

dubshow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:23 pm

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:21 pm

None as far as I know. Every other advanced country on the planet provides universal health care to it's citizens. And it's virtually all cheaper than our system, and usually with better outcomes. We're the only stupid ones that don't.

Profit and greed are what got us where we are. Maybe after this mess there will be better retrospective.

I hope so, but I ain't optimistic.

[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:29 pm

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:27 pm

The point of the graphs is that jumping on the social distancing early works. The relative economic health of the country is irrelevant to that.

I'd like to see a graph on GDP vs time to respond to COVID-19.

I suppose it would be interesting. South Korea has a pretty healthy economy afaik and they jumped on social distancing pretty quickly, too. So does the UK and they waited and are in worse shape.
I honestly don't see the connection here. The point is smart, responsible government action to quickly clamp down on social distancing WORKS. Economic size or health is irrelevant to this fact.

[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:19 pm

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:16 pm Here is a chart that shows what early adoption of social distancing can do. Little basket-case Greece immediately clamped down on social distancing after the numbers in Italy first started to rise. Spain, Belgium, Portugal, and of course others did not. This is what government is doing it right looks like.


https://greece.greekreporter.com/2020/0 ... us-deaths/

https://greece.greekreporter.com/2020/0 ... atalities/

That's what flattening the curve by shutting down society early looks like. It works, especially when done early. And there is no Marshall Law. The police are just handing out warnings and fines - over 4 million Euro worth to date.

I mean, Greece didn't have much to lose in terms of an economy, so they were ahead of the curve.

"Well boys time to throw in the towel"

[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:32 pm

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:27 pm

The point of the graphs is that jumping on the social distancing early works. The relative economic health of the country is irrelevant to that.

Sorry Wap, you're wrong. Profits matter more than people. Burn more shit, pollute more, make sure corporations continue to loot from the masses, THEN you can social distance.

ok

.gov sponsored health care for all lookin' real good rn

socialism trials by current .gov seem to be working nicely, TP shortages aside

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:27 pm

dubshow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:23 pm

Profit and greed are what got us where we are. Maybe after this mess there will be better retrospective.

I hope so, but I ain't optimistic.

This thing would have to get really bad...worse than it is...to change the underlying motivation for civilization.

[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:32 pm

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:27 pm

The point of the graphs is that jumping on the social distancing early works. The relative economic health of the country is irrelevant to that.

Sorry Wap, you're wrong. Profits matter more than people. Burn more shit, pollute more, make sure corporations continue to loot from the masses, THEN you can social distance.

WAP's employer's feels right here

Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:34 pm

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:27 pm

I hope so, but I ain't optimistic.

This thing would have to get really bad...worse than it is...to change the underlying motivation for civilization.

full economic collapse and the dollar becoming worthless therefore leveling the playing field and making people like Bezos just a bald asshole instead of a bald rich asshole

Johnny_P wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:34 pm

[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:32 pm

Sorry Wap, you're wrong. Profits matter more than people. Burn more shit, pollute more, make sure corporations continue to loot from the masses, THEN you can social distance.

WAP's employer's feels right here

Eh, we're doing the best we can. We spread 2 shifts out to 3 to minimize the number of people in the plant at any one time. And each shift is 6 hours though they're all getting paid for 8. Salespeople are still WFH. There is nobody literally within 30 feet of my cube.

Big Brain Bradley wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:14 pm

Melon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:57 am


Where are you getting 80,000 from?


Show me some data that the economic downturn will cost lives,

1. https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

2. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00210-0
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sp ... pn1017.pdf

Impact on health: The hardship of job loss also has serious negative impacts on health. In the short
run, layoffs are associated with higher risk of heart attacks and other stress-related illnesses
(Burgard et al., 2007). But even in the long term, the mortality rate of workers that have been laid
off is on average higher than that of comparable workers that did not lose their jobs, controlling for
other relevant individual and aggregate characteristics. Based on social security data for the United
States, Sullivan and von Wachter (2009) estimate that increased mortality rate due to
unemployment can persist up to 20 years after the job loss and lead to an average loss of life
expectancy from 1 to 1.5 years (see Figure 5). Moreover, displaced workers’ loss in earnings is
associated with the increase in mortality odds: workers that are displaced but are lucky enough not
to suffer a loss in subsequent earnings are not found to have a higher rate of mortality (Figure 6).

This suggests that financial resources serve as an important determinant of individual health by
influencing the ability to invest in good health care (and access to health insurance) and a healthy
lifestyle, while a shortage of resources leads to poor lifestyle choices and can also be the reason for
stress and depression.

This is both pretty well established science as well as common sense.

1) Nice website, I'll agree to use that as a basis. I hope it's accurate. I've been following it too.

2) Neither of those articles mention, or list a mortality rate. Only increased health issues, and lower life expectancy.
There is an increased ratio mentioned, but it's not the point of either paper to present such definite information.

In Summation:
There is no correlation between a recession and deaths.
There is between a pandemic and deaths.

Yes, it's common sense that someone might not get money for food, or there could be a suicide, but that's a statistical outlier.
The health problems are not insignificant, but are also present for a recession, loss of job, divorce, flood or any other stressful life event. On a national recession it's just widespread ans easier to track due to the large sample size.

Not only is shutting down businesses, limiting travel and issuing stay-at-home orders effective, but it's the moral thing to do.
Is it 100% efficient no? A Half-measure? Also no. I think it's as far as people in this country would allow. Most are ok with self-isolation as a means to protect themselves alone.

It's much less harmful than letting the virus run rampant.

The origin of your argument was there there is a crossing point between stabilizing the economy and preventing deaths, and I think we're there.
"X" doesn't necessarily mark the spot, but we did the best with what we had, and knew at the time.

Conclusion:
We agree on 80,000 projected deaths. That's after only (4) months in the U.S. and after rampant and widespread control measures.
That alone proves it's not just the flu, and should be treat much more seriously.

There is no correlation between deaths and recession.
Thus we can conclude the measures taken are the best ones. (I will say that we knew to do at the time, the events of March 2020 shall be debated for years to come.)

Obligatory

[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:35 pm

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:32 pm
I suppose it would be interesting. South Korea has a pretty healthy economy afaik and they jumped on social distancing pretty quickly, too. So does the UK and they waited and are in worse shape.
I honestly don't see the connection here. The point is smart, responsible government action to quickly clamp down on social distancing WORKS. Economic size or health is irrelevant to this fact.

I'd just like to see the data.

The UK is similar to the US, and their buffoon in charge is now in the ICU with COVID-19.

Exactly. Relative economic health is irrelevant. Right wing douchebag kooks in charge would be a telling stat. Between , Boris, the clown in Brazil, etc. there would be some interesting data to see there.

[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:36 pm

Johnny_P wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:34 pm .gov sponsored health care for all lookin' real good rn

socialism trials by current .gov seem to be working nicely, TP shortages aside

We're gonna need single-payer single-ply government TP after this.

Or just give up on TP altogether.

[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:32 pm

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:27 pm

The point of the graphs is that jumping on the social distancing early works. The relative economic health of the country is irrelevant to that.

Sorry Wap, you're wrong. Profits matter more than people. Burn more shit, pollute more, make sure corporations continue to loot from the masses, THEN you can social distance.

point being, its easy to shut the doors when they are already closed for biz.

[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:38 pm

Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:34 pm
This thing would have to get really bad...worse than it is...to change the underlying motivation for civilization.

Loading: Purge.exe

laughs in prepper

Johnny_P wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:36 pm

Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:34 pm
This thing would have to get really bad...worse than it is...to change the underlying motivation for civilization.

full economic collapse and the dollar becoming worthless therefore leveling the playing field and making people like Bezos just a bald asshole instead of a bald rich asshole

All of which is extremely unlikely.

wap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:36 pm

Johnny_P wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:34 pm

WAP's employer's feels right here

Eh, we're doing the best we can. We spread 2 shifts out to 3 to minimize the number of people in the plant at any one time. And each shift is 6 hours though they're all getting paid for 8. Salespeople are still WFH. There is nobody literally within 30 feet of my cube.

WAP saying hi to his coworkers like

Johnny_P wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:38 pm

[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:36 pm

We're gonna need single-payer single-ply government TP after this.

Or just give up on TP altogether.

Johnny_P wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:36 pm

Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:34 pm
This thing would have to get really bad...worse than it is...to change the underlying motivation for civilization.

full economic collapse and the dollar becoming worthless therefore leveling the playing field and making people like Bezos just a bald asshole instead of a bald rich asshole