Car talk tré: Carpocalypse Now!

[max225]

Charging times are irrelevant when it happens while you sleep. Long road trips can be planned too... everyone needs to piss every 300 miles or so. Doesn't hurt to take a 30 min break every 4-5 hrs.

[max225]

I guess first week of Jan is done. So we'll have to disagree on this. OEMs need to be squeezed to make EVs and funnel development costs from gasoline into EV because it is for the betterment of the country, and yes it will make the balance sheet look bad initially because it is a long term play... 5-10 years not 1-3 quarters.

No one needs a GMC+Canyon truck twins, they are the same vehicle, channel that money into EV development etc. The industry is littered with waste and redundant models. Yes they sell short term but it is too short-sighted.

The Board is not going to take kindly to hearing about a 5-10 year plan that is going to the stock in the near term.

Except look at tesla vs ford... one of those has been going up and one of those has been going down... it seems like future plans are in fact valued...

[Davestr]

Charging times are irrelevant when it happens while you sleep. Long road trips can be planned too... everyone needs to piss every 300 miles or so. Doesn't hurt to take a 30 min break every 4-5 hrs.

Dis^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The excuses about EV use/travel dont match to reality now in normal ICE vehicles.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Exactly.

My point is that CAFE and the .gov approach has been so far. It's not doing anything to change customer behavior because it's approaching the problem from the wrong side of the equation. Worse, it's squeezing domestic OEMs who are already squeezed. Investing heavily in EV tech needs to happen, but without demand, it's really hard to justify the

I guess first week of Jan is done. So we'll have to disagree on this. OEMs need to be squeezed to make EVs and funnel development costs from gasoline into EV because it is for the betterment of the country, and yes it will make the balance sheet look bad initially because it is a long term play... 5-10 years not 1-3 quarters.

No one needs a GMC+Canyon truck twins, they are the same vehicle, channel that money into EV development etc. The industry is littered with waste and redundant models. Yes they sell short term but it is too short-sighted.

Can't disagree with redundancy. There's a lot of waste across the industry for sure.

But long run, where is EV demand going to come from? Just like nobody wants to buy cars anymore so they're going away, how are EVs going to sell when nobody wants them? You think that in the long run people will just naturally want EVs? Why would they if gas stays free forever? Or will EVs just become the only option? Might be the only way to make it happen.

[CorvetteWaxer]

Charging times are irrelevant when it happens while you sleep. Long road trips can be planned too... everyone needs to piss every 300 miles or so. Doesn't hurt to take a 30 min break every 4-5 hrs.

Ever have an emergency and need to get in the car and go, like now?

Oh, damn, my slow charging EV car I depleted this afternoon is only at 10% charge and I need to go 50 miles.

I don't let obvious potential failure points into my workflow at work, and I don't let them in at home for emergency situations.

Nothing EV will beat a 3 minute fill up of dead dinosaurs.... in our lifetime, anyway.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Exactly.

My point is that CAFE and the .gov approach has been so far. It's not doing anything to change customer behavior because it's approaching the problem from the wrong side of the equation. Worse, it's squeezing domestic OEMs who are already squeezed. Investing heavily in EV tech needs to happen, but without demand, it's really hard to justify the

I'm not going to deal with charging and the time it takes.

Naa gonna do it.



The only option for me is gas, or nukular.

This is another problem.

[max225]

I guess first week of Jan is done. So we'll have to disagree on this. OEMs need to be squeezed to make EVs and funnel development costs from gasoline into EV because it is for the betterment of the country, and yes it will make the balance sheet look bad initially because it is a long term play... 5-10 years not 1-3 quarters.

No one needs a GMC+Canyon truck twins, they are the same vehicle, channel that money into EV development etc. The industry is littered with waste and redundant models. Yes they sell short term but it is too short-sighted.

Can't disagree with redundancy. There's a lot of waste across the industry for sure.

But long run, where is EV demand going to come from? Just like nobody wants to buy cars anymore so they're going away, how are EVs going to sell when nobody wants them? You think that in the long run people will just naturally want EVs? Why would they if gas stays free forever? Or will EVs just become the only option? Might be the only way to make it happen.

What do you mean demand? There is no supply. There are no EV cross overs, there are no EV trucks that are competitive. Those are the TOP categories, no one cares about sedans, and look at the DEMAND there, tesla model 3 is killing it, imagine a competitive truck... it would do the same. But the issue is, it would cost 100k+ right now because nothing is developed yet.

Top selling vehicles in the country are far cheaper than the average usable EV (model 3) 45-55k and bolt (hideous) 40k

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Can't disagree with redundancy. There's a lot of waste across the industry for sure.

But long run, where is EV demand going to come from? Just like nobody wants to buy cars anymore so they're going away, how are EVs going to sell when nobody wants them? You think that in the long run people will just naturally want EVs? Why would they if gas stays free forever? Or will EVs just become the only option? Might be the only way to make it happen.

What do you mean demand? There is no supply. There are no EV cross overs, there are no EV trucks that are competitive. Those are the TOP categories, no one cares about sedans, and look at the DEMAND there, tesla model 3 is killing it, imagine a competitive truck... it would do the same. But the issue is, it would cost 100k+ right now because nothing is developed yet.

Top selling vehicles in the country are far cheaper than the average usable EV (model 3) 45-55k and bolt (hideous) 40k

Good point. I guess we'll see.

[max225]

Charging times are irrelevant when it happens while you sleep. Long road trips can be planned too... everyone needs to piss every 300 miles or so. Doesn't hurt to take a 30 min break every 4-5 hrs.

Ever have an emergency and need to get in the car and go, like now?

Oh, damn, my slow charging EV car I depleted this afternoon is only at 10% charge and I need to go 50 miles.

I don't let obvious potential failure points into my workflow at work, and I don't let them in at home for emergency situations.

Nothing EV will beat a 3 minute fill up of dead dinosaurs.... in our lifetime, anyway.

NO and if it is THAT urgent I would charge my car overnight, which i can do AT home vs having the emergency and having to go to a gas station and pump gas. Every morning your car would be at 100%, it is far more convenient that dealing with the poors, and beggers asking for $5 at your local gas station.

Also, you can get an uber if shit is that crucial. This argument doesn't really work.

[CorvetteWaxer]

Ever have an emergency and need to get in the car and go, like now?

Oh, damn, my slow charging EV car I depleted this afternoon is only at 10% charge and I need to go 50 miles.

I don't let obvious potential failure points into my workflow at work, and I don't let them in at home for emergency situations.

Nothing EV will beat a 3 minute fill up of dead dinosaurs.... in our lifetime, anyway.

NO and if it is THAT urgent I would charge my car overnight, which i can do AT home vs having the emergency and having to go to a gas station and pump gas. Every morning your car would be at 100%, it is far more convenient that dealing with the poors, and beggers asking for $5 at your local gas station.

Also, you can get an uber if shit is that crucial. This argument doesn't really work.

No, it works just fine. I don't think you read what I said.

Lets play this game:

I charged my car overnight.
Woke up, went to work and back, 150 miles, but really ~200 in range used with the hills and cold weather. My fancy energizer car has 20 miles of range left.
Emergency call comes in, I need to be somewhere else, anywhere else but here ASAFP.
Fooked.

Or, I deal with a 12 minute uber wait, and a driver that drives under the speed limit adding way more time to my trip... IF an uber is available and this is not a "GTFO of the area situation". Also assuming his car can carry what I need to take with me.. I've had Uber XL's that barely fit 3 people.

Or, I hit one of the 14 gas stations within 2 miles of my house that are in the direction I need to go and get gone.

I'm also the type that never goes below 1/4 tank as a rule, for this reason. In an EV, nothing today will let me keep 1/4 range with my commute.

Sure, I could try to jump into a charger at work, we have about 20 of them... but wait.. we have over 100 Tesla's and maybe 50 other Leaf/etc EVs that clog those up and we have paid staff that acts as valets to get the cars around in the chargers, but many people tell me there are days their cars don't get charged because of the number of people using the service. A decent percentage of the Tesla owners at work that I know will admit that it is a pain in the ass and makes the experience sour quite often.

[Davestr]

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/honda/c ... -3-review/

Long -term Civic Type-R update

[max225]

NO and if it is THAT urgent I would charge my car overnight, which i can do AT home vs having the emergency and having to go to a gas station and pump gas. Every morning your car would be at 100%, it is far more convenient that dealing with the poors, and beggers asking for $5 at your local gas station.

Also, you can get an uber if shit is that crucial. This argument doesn't really work.

No, it works just fine. I don't think you read what I said.

Lets play this game:

I charged my car overnight.
Woke up, went to work and back, 150 miles, but really ~200 in range used with the hills and cold weather. My fancy energizer car has 20 miles of range left.
Emergency call comes in, I need to be somewhere else, anywhere else but here ASAFP.
Fooked.

Or, I deal with a 12 minute uber wait, and a driver that drives under the speed limit adding way more time to my trip... IF an uber is available and this is not a "GTFO of the area situation". Also assuming his car can carry what I need to take with me.. I've had Uber XL's that barely fit 3 people.

Or, I hit one of the 14 gas stations within 2 miles of my house that are in the direction I need to go and get gone.

I'm also the type that never goes below 1/4 tank as a rule, for this reason. In an EV, nothing today will let me keep 1/4 range with my commute.

Sure, I could try to jump into a charger at work, we have about 20 of them... but wait.. we have over 100 Tesla's and maybe 50 other Leaf/etc EVs that clog those up and we have paid staff that acts as valets to get the cars around in the chargers, but many people tell me there are days their cars don't get charged because of the number of people using the service. A decent percentage of the Tesla owners at work that I know will admit that it is a pain in the ass and makes the experience sour quite often.

I totally get it, but lets take your scenario then, you have 3 other cars... jump into any one of them? (solution 1)
I am not saying electric is the one and only solution but it has benefits and drawbacks. Usually, the better models have a 270-300 mile range, so your 150 mile commute should still have at least 100 miles left, plenty for any "emergency" IMO. Any hospital is at most 10-20 miles 1 way from your house.

Huge benefit:
Charge at home/full charge every am and no useless trips to the gas stations coveted by all kinds of scum.

Huge drawback
If you need CHARGE NOW, you have to wait 30 min+

Personally, EV would be preferable for me. I don't think it is something that will in any way shape or form detract from my current driving etc, it will actually be a huge benefit as I hate getting gas, which i have to do quite frequently.

[max225]

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/honda/c ... -3-review/

Long -term Civic Type-R update

12.4 gallon tank ?

[troyguitar]

Exactly.

My point is that CAFE and the .gov approach has been so far. It's not doing anything to change customer behavior because it's approaching the problem from the wrong side of the equation. Worse, it's squeezing domestic OEMs who are already squeezed. Investing heavily in EV tech needs to happen, but without demand, it's really hard to justify the

I'm not going to deal with charging and the time it takes.

Naa gonna do it.



The only option for me is gas, or nukular.

Charging needs to be as fast and convenient as gas. I'd rather have a hybrid with present technology. Not a plug-in either, just a 50 mpg on 87 compact hybrid. No heavy batteries making the thing 4000 lbs to get 100 miles of range...

[Davestr]

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/honda/c ... -3-review/

Long -term Civic Type-R update

12.4 gallon tank ?

Guess the wing took the fkn capacity lol

[Davestr]

In terms of "adoption" there is only 1 country that has significant numbers and effort underway to stop ICE growth, and develop infrastructure to support E on a large scale - Norway. This article outlines the progress and issues with respect to E.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2019/ ... ic-future/

[max225]

12.4 gallon tank ?

Guess the wing took the fkn capacity lol

Yesterday I had to get gas which I hate (as previously stated), car took 15.4 gallons in my 15.8 gallon tank, running on fumes because went a "whopping" 310 miles. I miss the days of the 500 mile fill up in my TDI.

I will never understand those people preferring small tanks because "$20 fills her up" we need a plague.

[max225]

In terms of "adoption" there is only 1 country that has significant numbers and effort underway to stop ICE growth, and develop infrastructure to support E on a large scale - Norway. This article outlines the progress and issues with respect to E.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2019/ ... ic-future/

Interesting adoption rates... that's pretty

I am wondering about one thing though, can our power plants truly handle 300 million electric vehicles... ? We can't have that much extra capacity around... then again most charge at night... when the plants literally waste power since they can't be idle.

The fun part is going to be in the top of the summer, when we have emergency natural gas/oil plants that run at full steam since the traditional plants are capped.
switch to electric to burn oil.

[CorvetteWaxer]

No, it works just fine. I don't think you read what I said.

Lets play this game:

I charged my car overnight.
Woke up, went to work and back, 150 miles, but really ~200 in range used with the hills and cold weather. My fancy energizer car has 20 miles of range left.
Emergency call comes in, I need to be somewhere else, anywhere else but here ASAFP.
Fooked.

Or, I deal with a 12 minute uber wait, and a driver that drives under the speed limit adding way more time to my trip... IF an uber is available and this is not a "GTFO of the area situation". Also assuming his car can carry what I need to take with me.. I've had Uber XL's that barely fit 3 people.

Or, I hit one of the 14 gas stations within 2 miles of my house that are in the direction I need to go and get gone.

I'm also the type that never goes below 1/4 tank as a rule, for this reason. In an EV, nothing today will let me keep 1/4 range with my commute.

Sure, I could try to jump into a charger at work, we have about 20 of them... but wait.. we have over 100 Tesla's and maybe 50 other Leaf/etc EVs that clog those up and we have paid staff that acts as valets to get the cars around in the chargers, but many people tell me there are days their cars don't get charged because of the number of people using the service. A decent percentage of the Tesla owners at work that I know will admit that it is a pain in the ass and makes the experience sour quite often.

I totally get it, but lets take your scenario then, you have 3 other cars... jump into any one of them? (solution 1)
I am not saying electric is the one and only solution but it has benefits and drawbacks. Usually, the better models have a 270-300 mile range, so your 150 mile commute should still have at least 100 miles left, plenty for any "emergency" IMO. Any hospital is at most 10-20 miles 1 way from your house.

Huge benefit:
Charge at home/full charge every am and no useless trips to the gas stations coveted by all kinds of scum.

Huge drawback
If you need CHARGE NOW, you have to wait 30 min+

Personally, EV would be preferable for me. I don't think it is something that will in any way shape or form detract from my current driving etc, it will actually be a huge benefit as I hate getting gas, which i have to do quite frequently.

First, i have really never experienced scum at the gas stations in my city... just saying, and I fill up every 1.5 trips to/from work (keeping the ~1/4 tank thing in mind). If I ran the car to empty it would be getting gas every other evening.

I'm also talking about a city that has by last estimate I read (about a year ago) approximately 25,000 commuters that go to the peninsula or deep east bay daily on one of two roads. Most of those people likely don't own multiple cars, especially if one of them is a $100k EV with that kind of range.

Gasoline will never leave me stranded like an EV will, especially if a storm knocks out the electricity at my house when my car would be charging.

This all leaves out the possibility that the driver forgets to plug in. I will admit that I've been on a conference call when I pull into my driveway and get out of the car and go inside to finish the call and I've left the car unlocked overnight. I'm sure I'd forget to plug in at some point.

[CorvetteWaxer]

Guess the wing took the fkn capacity lol

Yesterday I had to get gas which I hate (as previously stated), car took 15.4 gallons in my 15.8 gallon tank, running on fumes because went a "whopping" 310 miles. I miss the days of the 500 mile fill up in my TDI.

I will never understand those people preferring small tanks because "$20 fills her up" we need a plague.

The "cheap" fill up is idiotic. My gas pressure washer I don't really use anymore only took a gallon to fill it up! but it runs out in 45 minutes of use. I get the point if you're carrying the thing around, but in a car they should all be at least 20 gallon tanks.

Bigger tanks = more to be had by syphoning when the SHTF and the Walking Dead comes true.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

In terms of "adoption" there is only 1 country that has significant numbers and effort underway to stop ICE growth, and develop infrastructure to support E on a large scale - Norway. This article outlines the progress and issues with respect to E.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2019/ ... ic-future/

Interesting adoption rates... that's pretty

I am wondering about one thing though, can our power plants truly handle 300 million electric vehicles... ? We can't have that much extra capacity around... then again most charge at night... when the plants literally waste power since they can't be idle.

The fun part is going to be in the top of the summer, when we have emergency natural gas/oil plants that run at full steam since the traditional plants are capped.
switch to electric to burn oil.

That's the thing. "Infrastructure" is more than just chargers. I just don't see how it's going to work out when all the incentive is still on ICE and gas.

Though, as solar gets more economical, that's a compelling solution. No need to depend on the grid then. I'm closely watching development of the Tesla solar roofs. Our roof is due for replacement in the next 5 years or so, would love to get into solar.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Yesterday I had to get gas which I hate (as previously stated), car took 15.4 gallons in my 15.8 gallon tank, running on fumes because went a "whopping" 310 miles. I miss the days of the 500 mile fill up in my TDI.

I will never understand those people preferring small tanks because "$20 fills her up" we need a plague.

The "cheap" fill up is idiotic. My gas pressure washer I don't really use anymore only took a gallon to fill it up! but it runs out in 45 minutes of use. I get the point if you're carrying the thing around, but in a car they should all be at least 20 gallon tanks.

Bigger tanks = more to be had by syphoning when the SHTF and the Walking Dead comes true.

"Cheap" fill up is a thing? I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[Apex]

The "cheap" fill up is idiotic. My gas pressure washer I don't really use anymore only took a gallon to fill it up! but it runs out in 45 minutes of use. I get the point if you're carrying the thing around, but in a car they should all be at least 20 gallon tanks.

Bigger tanks = more to be had by syphoning when the SHTF and the Walking Dead comes true.

"Cheap" fill up is a thing? I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

It's all cheap when fuel is sub

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Volt has an 8 gallon tank, I filled it up for $15 last week (wasn't fully depleted). Can still get over 300 miles out of it too.

[Huckleberry]

Yesterday I had to get gas which I hate (as previously stated), car took 15.4 gallons in my 15.8 gallon tank, running on fumes because went a "whopping" 310 miles. I miss the days of the 500 mile fill up in my TDI.

I will never understand those people preferring small tanks because "$20 fills her up" we need a plague.

The "cheap" fill up is idiotic. My gas pressure washer I don't really use anymore only took a gallon to fill it up! but it runs out in 45 minutes of use. I get the point if you're carrying the thing around, but in a car they should all be at least 20 gallon tanks.

Bigger tanks = more to be had by syphoning when the SHTF and the Walking Dead comes true.

Eh, if the car gets good fuel economy, having a 20+ gallon tank isn't all that necessary. If the thing gets 35 MPG, you still have a 525 mile range in a 15 gallon tank.

As for the 12 gallon tank in the Type-R, that vehicle tries to cater towards the "rawr! racecar!" crowd. Gotta save that fuel weight to go super fast.