troyguitar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:45 pm
Wow, I just looked it up and I was even faster for less effort in January on a ~50% longer ride with the studded tires and some hills than I am now with GP5000TL's and no hills...
There's no way the riding environment - how much you have to stop/slow for traffic or pedestrians or cross streets - isn't the overriding factor here. You were riding in a rural place with zero in your way before, to now riding in a gridded, relatively urban setting.
troyguitar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:45 pm
Wow, I just looked it up and I was even faster for less effort in January on a ~50% longer ride with the studded tires and some hills than I am now with GP5000TL's and no hills...
Are you enjoying riding or not?
He enjoys complaining about it on the internet more.
Re: Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:21 pm
by troyguitar
[user not found] wrote:
troyguitar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:45 pm
Wow, I just looked it up and I was even faster for less effort in January on a ~50% longer ride with the studded tires and some hills than I am now with GP5000TL's and no hills...
Are you enjoying riding or not?
It's better than any other form of exercise that I have easy/cheap access to, so uh I guess? Exercise isn't supposed to be fun, but I do expect to get better at it with practice.
I ride the bike mostly in an (unsuccessful) attempt to not get fatter.
Re: Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:22 pm
by troyguitar
Apex wrote:
[user not found] wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:43 pm
Are you enjoying riding or not?
He enjoys complaining about it on the internet more.
troyguitar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:56 pm
This isn't the random insults thread?
I thought it was the bike thread?
Then quit being a fucking asshole. Why the FUCK would I enjoy watching myself get weaker and weaker as I try harder and harder? Fuck off with that garbage.
Re: Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:33 pm
by troyguitar
[user not found] wrote:Troy, do any structured training program and stick to it (and work on getting more/better quality sleep and fueling your body right), and you'll get faster. Period.
Until then... you'll likely be doing a lot of complaining about being slow. I too started riding as a way to not gain weight [in college].
Also, ignore your average speed, but focus on some local Strava segments and track your progress (you can even create your own).
Have you ever seen an adult male under 20% body fat struggle to do 17 mph on a road bike?
Re: Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:25 pm
by troyguitar
[user not found] wrote:
troyguitar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:31 pm
Then quit being a fucking asshole. Why the FUCK would I enjoy watching myself get weaker and weaker as I try harder and harder? Fuck off with that garbage.
Easy there, fuzzy little man peach.
We're still waiting for you to try some structured training, intervals, anything we suggest, other than endlessly comparing your efforts to my own.
I'm comparing myself to myself.
I was faster in July of 2020, when I had been riding for all of a month. On a slow ass bike with slow tires and hills.
No fucking intervals were done back then.
I did 30+ miles at 17+ mph. I can't do it anymore.
Re: Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:33 pm
by troyguitar
[user not found] wrote:
troyguitar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:33 pm
Have you ever seen an adult male under 20% body fat struggle to do 17 mph on a road bike?
Body fat percentage/weight has nothing to do with speed, unless uphill grades are involved. I've known some very fast and powerful bigger riders.
Have you EVER seen an adult male (besides me) struggle to do 17 mph on a road bike?
I have tried every fucking thing that you have suggested for over a year now, plus every motherfucking thing that anyone else in the world has ever fucking suggested, and I have only gotten slower.
[user not found] wrote:
Body fat percentage/weight has nothing to do with speed, unless uphill grades are involved. I've known some very fast and powerful bigger riders.
Have you EVER seen an adult male (besides me) struggle to do 17 mph on a road bike?
I have tried every fucking thing that you have suggested for over a year now, plus every motherfucking thing that anyone else in the world has ever fucking suggested, and I have only gotten slower.
I have, yes. I’ve been on many group rides on rural roads (which both make it far easier to have a higher average speed) where we did 16-17 mph, got back to the cars, and half the people talk about how hard it was and could barely keep up. Some are fat, some aren’t. Like [user not found] said, I know some chubsters who are pretty fast cyclists.
If your main goal is just to burn calories doing exercise you don’t mind as much as other forms, why are you so focused on the average speed.
You could train more and/or differently as mentioned here and get faster or just take it for calorie burning/exploring and be happy with how it is. It’s not like you’re dangerously slow.
Also, Coogs is right, the urban environment changes the average completely. If I’m solo, I can be a 20 mph rider in rural, 18-19 in suburban, 14-17 in urban. You can look at my Strava if you don’t believe that.
Re: Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:20 am
by coogles
Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:36 am
by coogles
D Griff wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:16 am
I have, yes. I’ve been on many group rides on rural roads (which both make it far easier to have a higher average speed) where we did 16-17 mph, got back to the cars, and half the people talk about how hard it was and could barely keep up. Some are fat, some aren’t. Like [user not found] said, I know some chubsters who are pretty fast cyclists.
If your main goal is just to burn calories doing exercise you don’t mind as much as other forms, why are you so focused on the average speed.
You could train more and/or differently as mentioned here and get faster or just take it for calorie burning/exploring and be happy with how it is. It’s not like you’re dangerously slow.
Also, Coogs is right, the urban environment changes the average completely. If I’m solo, I can be a 20 mph rider in rural, 18-19 in suburban, 14-17 in urban. You can look at my Strava if you don’t believe that.
Like I'd mentioned awhile back, cycling on flat ground is much more about power output and aero than it is about weight. Once up to speed on flat ground, weight is all but meaningless. Get stronger for longer, get faster, end of story.
This relates to cars, but the same principle applies.
Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:46 am
by coogles
[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:36 amLook at that power. 796 watts and a 35 MPH sprint. Nice work.
Thanks! But I could’ve gone faster.
I hit 128rpm @ 65% resistance - I spun out rather than hitting a resistance wall. I think I could’ve added another 100W if I’d selected maybe 70%. I’ve got legs, I just need the heart and lungs to go with them.
Re: Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:14 pm
by troyguitar
D Griff wrote:
troyguitar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:33 pm
Have you EVER seen an adult male (besides me) struggle to do 17 mph on a road bike?
I have tried every fucking thing that you have suggested for over a year now, plus every motherfucking thing that anyone else in the world has ever fucking suggested, and I have only gotten slower.
I have, yes. I’ve been on many group rides on rural roads (which both make it far easier to have a higher average speed) where we did 16-17 mph, got back to the cars, and half the people talk about how hard it was and could barely keep up. Some are fat, some aren’t. Like [user not found] said, I know some chubsters who are pretty fast cyclists.
If your main goal is just to burn calories doing exercise you don’t mind as much as other forms, why are you so focused on the average speed.
You could train more and/or differently as mentioned here and get faster or just take it for calorie burning/exploring and be happy with how it is. It’s not like you’re dangerously slow.
Also, Coogs is right, the urban environment changes the average completely. If I’m solo, I can be a 20 mph rider in rural, 18-19 in suburban, 14-17 in urban. You can look at my Strava if you don’t believe that.
We've had this conversation before. Going fast is more fun than going slow. Being able to keep up with other people is more fun than having to ride alone. Riding for over a year, after doing almost zero exercise for ~8 years, should result in some amount of improvement. You disagree?
I hit 128rpm @ 65% resistance - I spun out rather than hitting a resistance wall. I think I could’ve added another 100W if I’d selected maybe 70%. I’ve got legs, I just need the heart and lungs to go with them.
You're learning how to do it, though. You did the equivalent of choosing the wrong gear for the group sprint - next time, get the legs spun up and dial in a harder resistance.
Yeah, I’m definitely still learning what I’m capable of pushing and for how long. This was only a 15 second sprint, but it was 45 mins in, after 30 seconds in Z6 and 2.5 in Z4. I didn’t think I’d hit nearly 800 watts, but out of the saddle and pushing that hard, there’s no way to then reach down and bump up the resistance accurately while still maintaining that output. At least on a real bike you have your hand near the gearshift lever.
I appreciate the tip, though. Find my ideal cadence for a sprint (suggestions?) and then crank it up.
Re: Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:30 am
by troyguitar
[user not found] wrote:
troyguitar wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:14 pm
We've had this conversation before. Going fast is more fun than going slow. Being able to keep up with other people is more fun than having to ride alone. Riding for over a year, after doing almost zero exercise for ~8 years, should result in some amount of improvement. You disagree?
Depends on the riding, the diet, the sleep, everything. Despite a year of riding, if you haven't been pushing yourself beyond your limits enough, you won't see any gainz.
Schedule one day of structured intervals a week - hell, do it on the trainer. Schedule one day of 40+ miles a week. The rest is bonus miles/base miles.
Eat a balanced diet.
Get quality sleep, somehow.
Get a power meter to quantify your efforts based on output instead of speed.
Ride with people faster than you, get blown off the back, come back, try it again. Find a practice crit. Eventually you'll hang on.
It takes deep efforts to build power. Whether it's intervals, whether it's pushing yourself past redline to hang onto a group ride a bit longer, whether it's attempting a climb harder than you've ever done... all of those things will build power. You need something to trigger that response. Just riding solo in flat terrain usually doesn't push you hard enough.
Hell, have the wife motorpace you with the Mazderp. Find an empty office park, and have her gradually increase the speed 1 MPH at a time until you can't hang onto the draft anymore. Then do it again. And again. And again.
These are all things I've done. If I wasn't throwing down regularly with cat 1 riders, I wouldn't have a box to stand on - but I can clearly punch well above my cat 4 USAC road license weight. I just don't like actually racing crits because I don't like crashing.
How much harder than 200 bpm should I be trying to go? That's the highest I have ever recorded and I get there or damn close on almost every ride. Usually averaging 80-90% of that per hour... Do you just ride at 100% of max HR constantly?
Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:15 am
by SAWCE
Cycling isn’t my area of expertise, but power output is… Z is right in that you need rest/recovery days. I know you don’t have a desire to get big muscles, but some strength training would be huge for you. HR is not a measure of the force your muscles are generating.. try getting in a gym once or twice a week to strength train your legs. Keep the reps low to focus on strength rather than developing size. Find a weight that is hard for 6-8 reps on something like a leg press, a quad extension machine, and a seated leg curl. Work at each of those weights until you can do 3 sets of 8 reps with that weight, then increase the weight and work your way back up to completing the 3x8. This will have a huge carryover to your ability to generate power when cycling.
Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:33 am
by coogles
SAWCE wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:15 am
Cycling isn’t my area of expertise, but power output is… Z is right in that you need rest/recovery days. I know you don’t have a desire to get big muscles, but some strength training would be huge for you. HR is not a measure of the force your muscles are generating.. try getting in a gym once or twice a week to strength train your legs. Keep the reps low to focus on strength rather than developing size. Find a weight that is hard for 6-8 reps on something like a leg press, a quad extension machine, and a seated leg curl. Work at each of those weights until you can do 3 sets of 8 reps with that weight, then increase the weight and work your way back up to completing the 3x8. This will have a huge carryover to your ability to generate power when cycling.
YES. I've suggested strength training in the past as well, but honestly I don't think he even needs to leave his home. Cycling is a perfectly linear sport, there's no need to do wide stance squats or any lateral work unless you want to be a well-rounded athlete. You need strong VMOs, strong hamstrings, and strong calves. Strong tibialis muscles would be a plus too. He needs a slant board of some kind (calf and tib work), some kind of nordic hamstring solution (a couch to hold his weight and blankets under the knees, for example), and that's it. Lunges require no equipment. The Knees Over Toes Guy split squats are perfect for building strong VMOs for cycling, and have the added benefit of opening up the hip flexors from long stints bent over on the bike.
Seems to me Troy should get himself a TrainerRoad subscription, do some lower body strength training twice a week on top of that, do maybe two yoga sessions per week and voila, gainz. As long as he's eating well, sleeping well, and otherwise taking care of his body. None of this happens in vacuum.
Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:19 am
by Desertbreh
Get huge Troy. It is the way.
Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:29 am
by Apex
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:19 am
Get huge Troy. It is the way.
Dem bicicletas dos, doe.
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:48 pm
by coogles
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:19 am
Get huge Troy. It is the way.
