DFD

[user not found] wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:12 pmYou’re trying hard in all the wrong ways.

Unless you’re doing a race, pinning yourself at max HR for a 2 hour ride is just going to exhaust you and leave you spent.

I’m not being coy with you dude, if you want to get faster, you’ve got to go slower. Start with 2x10 intervals, work your way up to 2x20s.

You need to tax your system but you also need to allow it to recover between efforts. And you need to warm up and cool down. Also, for the love of god, y’all need to eat on the bike. I’m eating 2 Shot Bloks every 30 mins on the bike.

My last ride, for example. Still relatively low intensity, although Zone 3 can be sneaky, but it’s helping to set a foundation to be built on later with higher efforts. I can already tell Zone 3 is getting easier just 5 rides into the program, and my total output in each of the 45 minute Z2/Z3 rides has gone up each time. Heart rates won’t apply to Troy, my ticker seems to be a bit of a diesel. I top out at about 175bpm.

[user not found] wrote:

troyguitar wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:25 pm That low of HR is basically stopping, especially after I've been going for awhile. I take an eternity to recover.

Recovery is key, dude.

As you get fitter, your body recovers quicker. Intervals will help immensely with training your body to recover and get back on the gas.

I'm serious, for my HR to drop that low I need to stop or basically ride at <10 mph with zero effort. Not merely slow down to 20 mph.

FWIW I have not experienced a reduction of speed over the duration of a ride, except for when I have started with a tailwind and ended with a headwind.

I can barely maintain 15 mph on flat paved roads with no wind, regardless of how long I have been riding. I'm just as slow at the end of a ride as I am at the beginning. I'm not getting tired and slowing down, my pace doesn't change.

[user not found] wrote:

troyguitar wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:34 pm I'm serious, for my HR to drop that low I need to stop or basically ride at <10 mph with zero effort. Not merely slow down to 20 mph.

I know you’re serious. I am too.

Get off the road, find a path, duck into a neighborhood and noodle around a bit, but you’ve gotta get your HR down to allow the recovery process to take place.

Have you EVER been this slow, even at 12 years old or whenever you started?

[user not found] wrote:

troyguitar wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:39 pm Have you EVER been this slow, even at 12 years old or whenever you started?

My first actual road bike ride was pretty awful. 15 miles and struggling to hit 15 MPH.

But riding big hills and riding with others got me faster in quick fashion. Also, riding MTB helped with putting power down as well.

When I was younger, I don’t really know. I noodled around on a BMX bike everywhere and didn’t pay attention much to going fast.

So you started out already as fast as me, despite me having adult muscle mass and over a year of training?

Cool. So I just need to work harder than you guys to be slower, because I was born to be slow or something.

troyguitar wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:38 pm FWIW I have not experienced a reduction of speed over the duration of a ride, except for when I have started with a tailwind and ended with a headwind.

I can barely maintain 15 mph on flat paved roads with no wind, regardless of how long I have been riding. I'm just as slow at the end of a ride as I am at the beginning. I'm not getting tired and slowing down, my pace doesn't change.

Have you ever thought about just getting huge? Do you even Iron Maiden?

troyguitar wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:24 pm Cool. So I just need to work harder than you guys to be slower, because I was born to be slow or something.

You do realize that he is a freak of nature that actually borders on semi/pro athlete territory, right?

I’ve ridden with him for several years. He is not human and it’s demoralizing.

fledonfoot wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:37 pm

troyguitar wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:24 pm Cool. So I just need to work harder than you guys to be slower, because I was born to be slow or something.

You do realize that he is a freak of nature that actually borders on semi/pro athlete territory, right?

I’ve ridden with him for several years. He is not human and it’s demoralizing.

Cyborg.

fledonfoot wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:37 pm You do realize that he is a freak of nature that actually borders on semi/pro athlete territory, right?

I’ve ridden with him for several years. He is not human and it’s demoralizing.

Also

His last FTP test result was a little more than 50% higher than my last. I could dedicate my life to cycling and it would take me years to get there, if I ever could at all.

More nothing happening here, maybe this thing can pull 16 mph.

troyguitar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:58 pm More nothing happening here, maybe this thing can pull 16 mph.

If you ride it like that you’re going to feel an uncomfortable eight inches…

fledonfoot wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:31 pm

troyguitar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:58 pm More nothing happening here, maybe this thing can pull 16 mph.

If you ride it like that you’re going to feel an uncomfortable eight inches…

Become one with the bike.

Week 3 steps up the intensity a little bit, with zone 4 and zone 5 intervals on day 1. Zone 4 tops out at ~220W for me, Zone 5 ~250, and I was aiming to be at the top of those zones for all of the working sets. Holding 220W seems like maybe it’s getting a little bit easier? Tough to tell, with most of the work having been at lower outputs so far. Part of me thinks the program is leaving something on the table by spending so much time in zones 2&3 when, if the goal is to produce a higher average output over 20 minutes, we could instead be spending more time working zones 4&5. Admittedly I haven’t done any reading around the science behind power zone training, but intuitively it seems one would need to train above threshold power in order to improve it.

Internal cable routing is a pain in the ass. Dunno if I'll be able to test ride this thing today.

Also I'm apparently missing some kind of grommet or end cap where the rear shift cable comes out near the derailleur. A quick Google shows no such part called out by name from Liv/Giant.

I don't think I'll do it this year, but next year I'm for sure registering for the Hilly Hundred.

http://www.hillyhundred.org/index.html

~50 & 53 miles on a Saturday and Sunday, 2,500 ft. of climbing the first day and 3,000 ft. the second.

Ride maps:
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/28446758
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/28576315

Once I get a 250W FTP test I'm planning to sign up for my first crit too. I'll start at the lowest level for sure (category 5?), but it's sort of something I've put on my bucket list. We'll see how close I can get in 2.5 weeks.

troyguitar wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:39 pm Internal cable routing is a pain in the ass. Dunno if I'll be able to test ride this thing today.

Also I'm apparently missing some kind of grommet or end cap where the rear shift cable comes out near the derailleur. A quick Google shows no such part called out by name from Liv/Giant.

in4firstrideimpressions

No rides yet but I finally got it ready for a test.

It also weighs about 16.5 lbs as pictured which is on a moderate budget. Fancier and cassette could drop another pound, otherwise there's not a hell of a lot of room to get lighter without spending big $$ on dura-ace shit.

First test in the books, no major issues other than my half-assed rubber grommet solution for the shift cable slowly failing. I need to figure out what part actually goes there soon, for now I put a random plastic washer over it to keep it in place-ish.

The bike is definitely faster for the same effort and more fun in general. I still only did 17 mph at 170 bpm but that beats 16 on the same route last week for a similar effort... braking, accelerating, climbing, descending (such as it exists here) are all quite a bit easier/better. Crosswinds are a lot more noticeable but will hopefully be not bad enough to be dangerous.

Ultegra R8020 shifting is absolutely no better than Claris R2000. If anything it might even be slightly worse to be honest. The only reason to get this groupset is to have hydraulic disc brakes with levers that have adjustments for both reach and free stroke - which is valuable to me but somewhat annoying that it costs so much to get those features.

I think that the only part I'd do differently so far is to get a smaller/lighter cassette and perhaps the short cage derailleur to go with it. 11-36 seems like way more than I need on a fast bike. The biggest gear I used today was 25. I'll ride it as-is for awhile before making that kind of change.

Also 25mm GP5000TL on a stiff carbon bike is really no different in comfort than 25 or 32mm on the floppy aluminum one, assuming pressures are adjusted about right. Bumps still suck but not unbearably so. I might cancel my backordered 28mm's and stick to 25 at this point for the weight/aero benefits.

[user not found] wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:43 pm Hell yeah. Some crit beef will toughen those legs up for sure.

See if you can find a practice crit nearby, too - one of the biggest challenges with lower level crits aside from cornering, will be the yo-yoing in pace. It'll nuke your legs.

This race is a perfect example of that yo-yoing in a lower level crit. The host of the channel/coach recommended getting in front of the pack early if possible so you can ride at a more consistent, manageable pace rather than sprint/brake/sprint/brake and get blown up early.

FWIW the only guy I know doing crits right now is getting his ass kicked in the 250W range. The cat5 leaders are averaging 28 mph... So you need to be faster than fucking hell to hang in the "beginner" class. I'd be hopelessly left behind in 30 seconds.

troyguitar wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:20 am FWIW the only guy I know doing crits right now is getting his ass kicked in the 250W range. The cat5 leaders are averaging 28 mph... So you need to be faster than fucking hell to hang in the "beginner" class. I'd be hopelessly left behind in 30 seconds.

Womp womp. I guess there’s only one way to find out.

coogles wrote:

troyguitar wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:20 am FWIW the only guy I know doing crits right now is getting his ass kicked in the 250W range. The cat5 leaders are averaging 28 mph... So you need to be faster than fucking hell to hang in the "beginner" class. I'd be hopelessly left behind in 30 seconds.

Womp womp. I guess there’s only one way to find out.

It might not be so crazy near you. He's in CO where cyclists apparently only range from Zil-spec up to world tour pros. If you're slower than that I guess you sit home and smoke weed instead?

[user not found] wrote:

troyguitar wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:20 am FWIW the only guy I know doing crits right now is getting his ass kicked in the 250W range. The cat5 leaders are averaging 28 mph... So you need to be faster than fucking hell to hang in the "beginner" class. I'd be hopelessly left behind in 30 seconds.

Only way to get stronger is to get blown out the back until you don't.

Practice crits are great for this. Get blown up, sit up, wait for them to come around again and jump in again until you blow up again. Rinse and repeat. Eventually you'll get better at a few things:

1) Reading the pack
2) Maintaining a steady cadence
3) Power
4) Sprinting
5) Cornering

I mean, sure, but at 28 mph I can't do anything besides sprint for 30 seconds... You need to have a base level of speed at least in the ballpark before there's any point in riding with faster people.

Like me riding with you would be a waste of both of our time. You'd be at 60 bpm bored while I'm 180 bpm dying, neither of us gaining anything.