Goldilocks Zone Brainstorming

[troyguitar]

FWIW we were reasonably happy in KY, I see no reason that we wouldn't be happy again in a better (warmer, sunnier, less rust) place like that. Ideally we'd have been closer to Louisville/Lexington but then the commute would have been too much. Without the commute, those 2 places are on the table though Louisville is starting to get pretty far into the rusty winters category.

I thought we'd hate KY. Turns out that weather is more important to me than I ever thought. It doesn't make sense because I don't spend much time outdoors, but it's true.

I have similar feels with the weather thing.

For me, anything north of I-70 is a hard pass. Between say I-64 and and I-20 is doable with I-40 kind of being the Goldilocks zone in terms of seasonality. Anything south of 20 is too damn hot.

Also, as far as places to live, Huntsville, AL is a pretty decent place and hasn't been mentioned.

edit: This guidance obviously applies to areas east of the Mississippi. There are people here far more experienced with the western half of the US.

I know a few people in the Huntsville area that like it but I have only driven through it. They're kinda tea party types so if that's representative of the "smart" AL population then it could be a challenge to enjoy.

Culturally we basically want to be on the West coast or in the elitist Northeast.

I'm whether it's possible to get too far South as far as weather goes, to me it seems like summer gets hot and humid everywhere from Miami to Maine.

[4zilch]

I think anywhere in AL would be really tough culturally.

The metro areas are fine. Outside of those...

[4zilch]

I have similar feels with the weather thing.

For me, anything north of I-70 is a hard pass. Between say I-64 and and I-20 is doable with I-40 kind of being the Goldilocks zone in terms of seasonality. Anything south of 20 is too damn hot.

Also, as far as places to live, Huntsville, AL is a pretty decent place and hasn't been mentioned.

edit: This guidance obviously applies to areas east of the Mississippi. There are people here far more experienced with the western half of the US.

I know a few people in the Huntsville area that like it but I have only driven through it. They're kinda tea party types so if that's representative of the "smart" AL population then it could be a challenge to enjoy.

Culturally we basically want to be on the West coast or in the elitist Northeast.

I'm whether it's possible to get too far South as far as weather goes, to me it seems like summer gets hot and humid everywhere from Miami to Maine.

If you’re concerned with red state culture, there are certainly better places than the southeast, but northern areas aren’t immune from those things either.

For example, I saw far more confederate and trump flags flying in Southern Indiana than I do here. Those things illicit nothing more than an eye roll from me. So BUT I get that it bothers some people.

[wap]

Ok, here's a real suggestion since we're talking about the Caribbean tropics. Since you like France but want/need to stay in this hemisphere, what about Martinique? It's a beautiful island with typical Caribbean weather but it's very French. In fact, it's still a French territory.

Martinique is a rugged Caribbean island that’s part of the Lesser Antilles. An overseas region of France, its culture reflects a distinctive blend of French and West Indian influences. Its largest town, Fort-de-France, features steep hills, narrow streets and La Savane, a garden bordered by shops and cafes. In the garden is a statue of island native Joséphine de Beauharnais, first wife of Napoleon Bonaparte.

[troyguitar]

I know a few people in the Huntsville area that like it but I have only driven through it. They're kinda tea party types so if that's representative of the "smart" AL population then it could be a challenge to enjoy.

Culturally we basically want to be on the West coast or in the elitist Northeast.

I'm whether it's possible to get too far South as far as weather goes, to me it seems like summer gets hot and humid everywhere from Miami to Maine.

If you’re concerned with red state culture, there are certainly better places than the southeast, but northern areas aren’t immune from those things either.

For example, I saw far more confederate and trump flags flying in Southern Indiana than I do here. Those things illicit nothing more than an eye roll from me. So BUT I get that it bothers some people.

The God, Guns, and Freedom crowd bothers me sometimes more than others. I can largely ignore them but I would like to be able to make some friends and generally be able to do things like play in bar bands without feeling like I have to join the team.

In KY every single one of our friends lived in Lexington or Louisville and was originally from the North somewhere. There were enough transplants that we could together at the McConnell voters, plus bourbon and corvettes provided a universally appealing common ground with the rednecks. Bless our hearts.

[SAWCE]

I love Atlanta but the traffic is bad enough for me to say and I'd imagine I have a much higher tolerance than Troy.

Yeah Atlanta is 100% based on traffic alone. I time my drives through that place to occur between 10PM and 3AM. Somewhere further out like Athens might be cool, where you only need to deal with traffic when you choose to go to the big city.

I think that is probably the ideal setup, a medium-sized metropolitan-ish city <1 hr from a good large city for airport, hospitals, big concerts, etc.

Budget isn't really fixed, it depends on how much we like a place. I'd say <$3k/mo for a decent 2 bedroom rental, which is available almost anywhere even SF. I don't think we'd buy a place anywhere right now.

Lancaster California! You’re an hour north of LA for major city stuff and beaches, and housing is cheap.

[troyguitar]

Ok, here's a real suggestion since we're talking about the Caribbean tropics. Since you like France but want/need to stay in this hemisphere, what about Martinique? It's a beautiful island with typical Caribbean weather but it's very French. In fact, it's still a French territory.

Martinique is a rugged Caribbean island that’s part of the Lesser Antilles. An overseas region of France, its culture reflects a distinctive blend of French and West Indian influences. Its largest town, Fort-de-France, features steep hills, narrow streets and La Savane, a garden bordered by shops and cafes. In the garden is a statue of island native Joséphine de Beauharnais, first wife of Napoleon Bonaparte.

I have done no research, I'm just assuming that leaving the US would be too hard to do without local employer sponsorship. Or that we'd end up paying US and NY taxes plus the French taxes on top, leaving us with no money.

[SAWCE]

Yeah Atlanta is 100% based on traffic alone. I time my drives through that place to occur between 10PM and 3AM. Somewhere further out like Athens might be cool, where you only need to deal with traffic when you choose to go to the big city.

I think that is probably the ideal setup, a medium-sized metropolitan-ish city <1 hr from a good large city for airport, hospitals, big concerts, etc.

Budget isn't really fixed, it depends on how much we like a place. I'd say <$3k/mo for a decent 2 bedroom rental, which is available almost anywhere even SF. I don't think we'd buy a place anywhere right now.

Lancaster California! You’re an hour north of LA for major city stuff and beaches, and housing is cheap.

Lancaster was a joke, but after I said it I thought of Santa Clarita/Valencia. Even closer to LA and a much nicer area.

[Johnny_P]

My parents live in Birmingham, AL. I couldn't live in Bama. Pretty severe culture shock.

Move to the desert. Sunny all the time. You never go outside so the heat won't matter? Car will always run great.

[4zilch]

If you’re concerned with red state culture, there are certainly better places than the southeast, but northern areas aren’t immune from those things either.

For example, I saw far more confederate and trump flags flying in Southern Indiana than I do here. Those things illicit nothing more than an eye roll from me. So BUT I get that it bothers some people.

The God, Guns, and Freedom crowd bothers me sometimes more than others. I can largely ignore them but I would like to be able to make some friends and generally be able to do things like play in bar bands without feeling like I have to join the team.

In KY every single one of our friends lived in Lexington or Louisville and was originally from the North somewhere. There were enough transplants that we could together at the McConnell voters, plus bourbon and corvettes provided a universally appealing common ground with the rednecks. Bless our hearts.

I haven’t spent enough time in Huntsville to get a feel for that kind of culture.

I think you’d find that Knoxville and Greenville are pretty similar to Louisville. Chattanooga too, but to a bit lesser extent.

Raleigh - Durham might be a good area in that regard too. I spent a couple weeks there for work and loved it. That was roughly 10 years ago so my experience might be a bit dated.

[troyguitar]

Lancaster California! You’re an hour north of LA for major city stuff and beaches, and housing is cheap.

Lancaster was a joke, but after I said it I thought of Santa Clarita/Valencia. Even closer to LA and a much nicer area.

A medium sized place in CA between SF and LA does seem hard to beat, though I've never been to any of them. I've watched Karate Kid and Cobra Kai. Does Back to the Future also take place in CA? It's certainly the best weather option.

[troyguitar]

The God, Guns, and Freedom crowd bothers me sometimes more than others. I can largely ignore them but I would like to be able to make some friends and generally be able to do things like play in bar bands without feeling like I have to join the team.

In KY every single one of our friends lived in Lexington or Louisville and was originally from the North somewhere. There were enough transplants that we could together at the McConnell voters, plus bourbon and corvettes provided a universally appealing common ground with the rednecks. Bless our hearts.

I haven’t spent enough time in Huntsville to get a feel for that kind of culture.

I think you’d find that Knoxville and Greenville are pretty similar to Louisville. Chattanooga too, but to a bit lesser extent.

Raleigh - Durham might be a good area in that regard too. I spent a couple weeks there for work and loved it. That was roughly 10 years ago so my experience might be a bit dated.

I've heard great things about Raleigh from all sorts of people, never a bad thing except for the rising costs.

[Apex]

One of my uncles is a NC senator, so probably not the place Troy wants to live.

[D Griff]

FWIW we were reasonably happy in KY, I see no reason that we wouldn't be happy again in a better (warmer, sunnier, less rust) place like that. Ideally we'd have been closer to Louisville/Lexington but then the commute would have been too much. Without the commute, those 2 places are on the table though Louisville is starting to get pretty far into the rusty winters category.

I thought we'd hate KY. Turns out that weather is more important to me than I ever thought. It doesn't make sense because I don't spend much time outdoors, but it's true.

I think we should rewind and talk about what you really want out of a place more or prioritize things. There are pros/cons to everything, it depends on your own proclivities.

Take Austin:
Pros:
1. Great live music everywhere
2. Fun bars
3. Pretty good weather (but hot AF summers)
4. Great food
5. Affordable-ish
6. Probably a lot of good jobs to be had.

Cons:
1. No access to beaches or anything like that. TX is kinda ugly. Austin hill country is cool, but for the most part, this part of the world is pretty lacking in natural beauty.
2. Very crowded as it's a hip place to move to. The traffic is world class
3. Prices of everything will keep climbing, more and more people will come.

So, IMO, the pros list is longer, but I wouldn't be willing to live there because TX is just ugly compared to other places (like NC). Now, many wouldn't GAF about that, so it all comes down to what you value most and dislike most.

If you made a list of 5-10 desires in order of importance, I could probably throw out some recommendations as I've spent a lot of time in a lot of US towns.

[D Griff]

Raleigh feels a lot more like the South than Charlotte does. Both are nice places to live, but Charlotte is better as it's a bigger city with more going on and closer to the mountains. Raleigh is cheaper though.

[troyguitar]

Raleigh feels a lot more like the South than Charlotte does. Both are nice places to live, but Charlotte is better as it's a bigger city with more going on and closer to the mountains. Raleigh is cheaper though.

It's funny, I've been told by others that Charlotte is the more conservative typical southern town vs Raleigh the more liberal techy town. Bankers vs University

[troyguitar]

I think we should rewind and talk about what you really want out of a place more or prioritize things. There are pros/cons to everything, it depends on your own proclivities.

Take Austin:
Pros:
1. Great live music everywhere
2. Fun bars
3. Pretty good weather (but hot AF summers)
4. Great food
5. Affordable-ish
6. Probably a lot of good jobs to be had.

Cons:
1. No access to beaches or anything like that. TX is kinda ugly. Austin hill country is cool, but for the most part, this part of the world is pretty lacking in natural beauty.
2. Very crowded as it's a hip place to move to. The traffic is world class
3. Prices of everything will keep climbing, more and more people will come.

So, IMO, the pros list is longer, but I wouldn't be willing to live there because TX is just ugly compared to other places (like NC). Now, many wouldn't GAF about that, so it all comes down to what you value most and dislike most.

If you made a list of 5-10 desires in order of importance, I could probably throw out some recommendations as I've spent a lot of time in a lot of US towns.

With your budget Troy, you could do this and live.in an AirBnB for a while in several cities before you make a final decision.

Not the worst idea in the world, still a 5 figure expense but might be worth it. Especially if the more "exotic" locations were to be on the table. In our case I'd call Texas, anything in the West, and Puerto Rico exotic to us since we've never spent any time anywhere like that at all. KY/NC/TN/FL are all familiar-ish even if we haven't been in those specific cities.

Supposedly some of the flyover places are surprisingly decent too. Omaha, Fayetteville, St Louis. Could be worth a stop.

[D Griff]

With your budget Troy, you could do this and live.in an AirBnB for a while in several cities before you make a final decision.

Not the worst idea in the world, still a 5 figure expense but might be worth it. Especially if the more "exotic" locations were to be on the table. In our case I'd call Texas, anything in the West, and Puerto Rico exotic to us since we've never spent any time anywhere like that at all. KY/NC/TN/FL are all familiar-ish even if we haven't been in those specific cities.

Supposedly some of the flyover places are surprisingly decent too. Omaha, Fayetteville, St Louis. Could be worth a stop.

Omaha is actually really nice but they will have brutal winters. Same with St. Louis. One really underrated city is Milwaukee, that place rules, but again, shit winters.

[D Griff]

Raleigh feels a lot more like the South than Charlotte does. Both are nice places to live, but Charlotte is better as it's a bigger city with more going on and closer to the mountains. Raleigh is cheaper though.

It's funny, I've been told by others that Charlotte is the more conservative typical southern town vs Raleigh the more liberal techy town. Bankers vs University

You'll hear more accents in Raleigh. The banking thing is the single worst thing about Charlotte in my opinion though. 3/4 "finance people" are tools around here.

[troyguitar]

Not the worst idea in the world, still a 5 figure expense but might be worth it. Especially if the more "exotic" locations were to be on the table. In our case I'd call Texas, anything in the West, and Puerto Rico exotic to us since we've never spent any time anywhere like that at all. KY/NC/TN/FL are all familiar-ish even if we haven't been in those specific cities.

Supposedly some of the flyover places are surprisingly decent too. Omaha, Fayetteville, St Louis. Could be worth a stop.

Omaha is actually really nice but they will have brutal winters. Same with St. Louis. One really underrated city is Milwaukee, that place rules, but again, shit winters.

I think that you and I have different definitions of "brutal" winters but you're right generally that the flyover places are worse than KY/TN/NC in that regard. A number of Northern cities would be good if not for the shit weather. Minneapolis/St Paul, Pittsburgh, Ann Arbor, etc. Looking into a few factors I found a place that I'd never have thought about ranked highly in 3 very different lists:

https://www.curbed.com/2020/2/11/211263 ... ted-states

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation ... in-america

https://www.barna.com/research/post-chr ... ties-2019/

Madison, WI

Too damn cold

[wap]

Omaha is actually really nice but they will have brutal winters. Same with St. Louis. One really underrated city is Milwaukee, that place rules, but again, shit winters.

I think that you and I have different definitions of "brutal" winters but you're right generally that the flyover places are worse than KY/TN/NC in that regard. A number of Northern cities would be good if not for the shit weather. Minneapolis/St Paul, Pittsburgh, Ann Arbor, etc. Looking into a few factors I found a place that I'd never have thought about ranked highly in 3 very different lists:

https://www.curbed.com/2020/2/11/211263 ... ted-states

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation ... in-america

https://www.barna.com/research/post-chr ... ties-2019/

Madison, WI

Too damn cold

Madison is a nice, mid-size city, for sure. Haven't spent too much time there but my impression is that it would be a pretty nice place to live. Being the capital city and a university town it has some culture, things to do, etc, but yea, Wisconsin winters are no joke.

[D Griff]

Omaha is actually really nice but they will have brutal winters. Same with St. Louis. One really underrated city is Milwaukee, that place rules, but again, shit winters.

I think that you and I have different definitions of "brutal" winters but you're right generally that the flyover places are worse than KY/TN/NC in that regard. A number of Northern cities would be good if not for the shit weather. Minneapolis/St Paul, Pittsburgh, Ann Arbor, etc. Looking into a few factors I found a place that I'd never have thought about ranked highly in 3 very different lists:

https://www.curbed.com/2020/2/11/211263 ... ted-states

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation ... in-america

https://www.barna.com/research/post-chr ... ties-2019/

Madison, WI

Too damn cold

Madison is indeed really There's a huge company there called Epic that was a client of my old company, I took the Bang Bus there a number of times and the biz campus was the coolest I've ever seen, truly surreal. The city is really pretty situated between two lakes, and definitely has a good vibe.

[Desertbreh]

So I need to think about something positive right about now, it's back to snow and freezing rain every morning here in bloody May...

There's a decent chance that we escape this pandemic with a ticket to Freedomville, USA in the form of being allowed to work 100% remotely. That means moving out of New York. But the question then becomes: If we don't have to work locally, where should we live?

What places in the US are good for a couple of lower middle class white libtard atheists who are mostly into nice (warm) weather and good small local music/food/drink/arts options? I'd go somewhere like Marseille, France but that's not realistic. The closest thing to an international location that might not be completely impossible would be Puerto Rico, that could be neat at least for a few years.

We don't really want a cabin in the woods or a closet on Broadway, but there are a ton of options in between when local employment is not a factor. Join in Brosevile? Haunt in Reno? Get jacked with in SD? Drain the swamp in NAWLINS? Become Florida Man? Buy a in Austin? Move back to Kentucky? Get wicked with the Waltons in Fayetteville? Join NASCAR in Charlotte? Join NASA in Huntsville? SWED in Portland?

Asheville seems kinda cool, never been there but everyone says it's great. Dunno if it would feel too boring/small/isolated after a year as it's almost a cabin in the woods with bars next door.

Super open-ended question with very few hard requirements makes it difficult for me to even begin to evaluate. We don't have any family considerations nor any experience living or even really visiting any of these places and there are simply far too many choices to actually test them out for ourselves. What we do know is that we have HAD IT with Northern winters and 10k population towns in the middle of nowhere. Hit me with some thoughts.

Bend, Oregon.
San Diego if you can afford it.
Colorado Springs or Fort Collins CO
Sedona, AZ.

[Desertbreh]

If you can really move ANYWHERE, you need to try and hit a home run. I gave you home run options. St. Louis and Madison are NOT home run options, and I say this as a former midwesterner.

[troyguitar]

Not the worst idea in the world, still a 5 figure expense but might be worth it. Especially if the more "exotic" locations were to be on the table. In our case I'd call Texas, anything in the West, and Puerto Rico exotic to us since we've never spent any time anywhere like that at all. KY/NC/TN/FL are all familiar-ish even if we haven't been in those specific cities.

Supposedly some of the flyover places are surprisingly decent too. Omaha, Fayetteville, St Louis. Could be worth a stop.

My sister lives in College Park section of St. Louis and it's pretty great. Has the vibe you're looking for I think.

It seems like STL is another "up and coming" place due for massive growth from people priced out of the "better" cities, could be nice to get in on the ground floor and be part of the rebuilding. I just looked up the weather and it's not as bad as I thought, pretty similar to KY. A little worse in both extremes of the winter and summer but not too crazy.

STL: 16" annual snowfall, 89F high in July, 202 days of sun.

Corning: 47 snow, 80F July, 170 days sun

Lawrenceburg, KY: 11" snow, 87F July, 192 days sun

San Diego: 0 snow, 79F July, 266 days sun...