max225 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:56 pm
The part that is hard to disassociate is the whole "I am going to be fine while everyone else is selling caymans at a discount" it will be just as relatively expensive as it is now. Because all of our owned assets/incomes etc would have contracted at a similar pace. If that makes any sense. I learned a lot during the 08-12 "recession". Man I just hope it won't be THAT bad...
This is certainly true... but I also hope that playing this whole thing fairly conservatively could pay off somewhat.
Say my house takes a dump in value, , I'm not moving, have a dirt cheap interest rate, have already paid off 25-30% of original purchase price which was before it mysteriously jumped 60-70% in 2.5 years.
If the Beemah drops back down, well, I own it outright, I am if I get $15K or 20K for it really, that would have little impact on whether or not I could afford a new car.
Bought a Jeep at $5K under MSRP and worst case scenario it will be worth like $10K under MSRP, we will still be right side up and really have no reason to dump it.
I feel like (as Eric puts it) 'Joe American' who bought an RV, a beach condo, and $90K CUMMINS RAM during this shitshow is the guy who really gets fucked. I hope I am right about this, but it will probably be the classic story of those who did the dumbest shit getting rewarded.
To be honest I was ing back in 09... when people were allowed to WALK AWAY from their ridiculous mortgages. I knew a guy who made relatively little for the time... maybe 50-60k... and he was in a 600k house (on an interest ONLY mortgage) C5Z etc... everything on stretch pay, and he kept "flipping homes for profit", until THAT one. He was allowed to "not pay" for his house for like 6 months because "it was worth less" he then renegotiated the house at like 400k, and it's probably worth 1M since... Essentially walked away from a shit ton of debt and was rewarded for financially reckless behavior.
Current example of this is student loans.... not a penny should be forgiven. Unless someone becomes disabled.
This country rewards s for sure... financially responsible people do NOT do well... All about that risk baby.
Also what really sucks for everyone is how UNATTAINABLE it has become to own a house. My current residence at the current rates costs 110% MORE per month to "own" than it did in 2020. How in the FUCK is that ok? My house now needs to go 30% BELOW where I bought it in order to have the same payment.... and that would mean i would be underwater... which sucks.
This is certainly true... but I also hope that playing this whole thing fairly conservatively could pay off somewhat.
Say my house takes a dump in value, , I'm not moving, have a dirt cheap interest rate, have already paid off 25-30% of original purchase price which was before it mysteriously jumped 60-70% in 2.5 years.
If the Beemah drops back down, well, I own it outright, I am if I get $15K or 20K for it really, that would have little impact on whether or not I could afford a new car.
Bought a Jeep at $5K under MSRP and worst case scenario it will be worth like $10K under MSRP, we will still be right side up and really have no reason to dump it.
I feel like (as Eric puts it) 'Joe American' who bought an RV, a beach condo, and $90K CUMMINS RAM during this shitshow is the guy who really gets fucked. I hope I am right about this, but it will probably be the classic story of those who did the dumbest shit getting rewarded.
To be honest I was ing back in 09... when people were allowed to WALK AWAY from their ridiculous mortgages. I knew a guy who made relatively little for the time... maybe 50-60k... and he was in a 600k house C5Z etc... everything on stretch pay. He was allowed to "not pay" for his house for like 6 months because "it was worth less" he then renegotiated the house at like 400k, and it's probably worth 1M since... Essentially walked away from a shit ton of debt and was rewarded for financially reckless behavior.
Current example of this is student loans.... not a penny should be forgiven. Unless someone becomes disabled.
This country rewards s for sure... financially responsible people do NOT do well... All about that risk baby.
Not to get too down the politics wormhole but I am also pretty by the whole student loan forgiveness thing. I get to see no beneshit from that simply because I paid off my own loans early.
I do think we could do a better job educating kids about the debt they're agreeing to take on and where it will leave them in life, etc. Rather than forgiving debt, why not tell Suzy that she will be fucked with $120K of debt and an art history degree out of the gate before the money changes hands?
Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:15 pm
by D Griff
Also 10X your annual income on a house is bananas.
Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:16 pm
by max225
D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:15 pm
Also 10X your annual income on a house is bananas.
is that a thing? We got approved for about 5x our gross for the mortgage (ended up buying way under that amount though), and I am sure its way lower now.
max225 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:56 pm
The part that is hard to disassociate is the whole "I am going to be fine while everyone else is selling caymans at a discount" it will be just as relatively expensive as it is now. Because all of our owned assets/incomes etc would have contracted at a similar pace. If that makes any sense. I learned a lot during the 08-12 "recession". Man I just hope it won't be THAT bad...
This is certainly true... but I also hope that playing this whole thing fairly conservatively could pay off somewhat.
Say my house takes a dump in value, , I'm not moving, have a dirt cheap interest rate, have already paid off 25-30% of original purchase price which was before it mysteriously jumped 60-70% in 2.5 years.
If the Beemah drops back down, well, I own it outright, I am if I get $15K or 20K for it really, that would have little impact on whether or not I could afford a new car.
Bought a Jeep at $5K under MSRP and worst case scenario it will be worth like $10K under MSRP, we will still be right side up and really have no reason to dump it.
I feel like (as Eric puts it) 'Joe American' who bought an RV, a beach condo, and $90K CUMMINS RAM during this shitshow is the guy who really gets fucked. I hope I am right about this, but it will probably be the classic story of those who did the dumbest shit getting rewarded.
My phraseology for the guy who has lots of payments, including at least 2 child support payments, is "Joe Citizen".......but either works.
D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:15 pm
Also 10X your annual income on a house is bananas.
is that a thing? We got approved for about 5x our gross for the mortgage (ended up buying way under that amount though), and I am sure its way lower now.
Your example - dude bro making 60K bought a 600K house. Hopefully not a thing now. I don't even know what we were approved for, we bought at like 2X our income at the time. I kind of wish we had spent a bit more in retrospect, but whatever. Cuck's gonna cuck I guess. Not everyone can be Joe America.
is that a thing? We got approved for about 5x our gross for the mortgage (ended up buying way under that amount though), and I am sure its way lower now.
Your example - dude bro making 60K bought a 600K house. Hopefully not a thing now. I don't even know what we were approved for, we bought at like 2X our income at the time. I kind of wish we had spent a bit more in retrospect, but whatever. Cuck's gonna cuck I guess. Not everyone can be Joe America.
Ah sorry I ed out for a moment. Yea it was wayyy easier to get huge loans back then
Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:04 pm
by wap
Don't student loans have some ridiculous interest rate? I'd be in favor of cutting that down to something more in line with reality, like a %age or 2, before outright forgiveness.
Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:23 pm
by D Griff
wap wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:04 pm
Don't student loans have some ridiculous interest rate? I'd be in favor of cutting that down to something more in line with reality, like a %age or 2, before outright forgiveness.
I don't think so, they are generally subsidized. I agree, I am pro subsidizing the rates to help those in need get an education. Mine were like 4-6% depending, can't speak to others.
Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:29 pm
by Desertbreh
wap wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:04 pm
Don't student loans have some ridiculous interest rate? I'd be in favor of cutting that down to something more in line with reality, like a %age or 2, before outright forgiveness.
Student loan forgiveness triggers me like saying Viva Castro in Cuban Miami. I paid back 80 grand of law school loans and am paying for my kids education. And every other fucking obligation I undertook, except dat first marriage. You signed a bleeping contract you knew how much you were borrowing. You could have just gone a got a real job installing HVAC or plumbing or whatever if you didn't like it. I'm like Max and the 09' guys who just walked away from their mortgages. Shit absolutely pisses me off. There are a LOT OF ME out here and forgiveness will be a huge political mistake for Uncle Joe.
wap wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:04 pm
Don't student loans have some ridiculous interest rate? I'd be in favor of cutting that down to something more in line with reality, like a %age or 2, before outright forgiveness.
I don't think so, they are generally subsidized. I agree, I am pro subsidizing the rates to help those in need get an education. Mine were like 4-6% depending, can't speak to others.
max225 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:12 pm
To be honest I was ing back in 09... when people were allowed to WALK AWAY from their ridiculous mortgages. I knew a guy who made relatively little for the time... maybe 50-60k... and he was in a 600k house C5Z etc... everything on stretch pay. He was allowed to "not pay" for his house for like 6 months because "it was worth less" he then renegotiated the house at like 400k, and it's probably worth 1M since... Essentially walked away from a shit ton of debt and was rewarded for financially reckless behavior.
Current example of this is student loans.... not a penny should be forgiven. Unless someone becomes disabled.
This country rewards s for sure... financially responsible people do NOT do well... All about that risk baby.
Not to get too down the politics wormhole but I am also pretty by the whole student loan forgiveness thing. I get to see no beneshit from that simply because I paid off my own loans early.
I do think we could do a better job educating kids about the debt they're agreeing to take on and where it will leave them in life, etc. Rather than forgiving debt, why not tell Suzy that she will be fucked with $120K of debt and an art history degree out of the gate before the money changes hands?
My loans are paid for and I'm fine with student loan forgiveness because the whole thing is a bit more nuanced than your typical loan. Student loans are based off your parents' income and credit because your typical highschooler has neither. This country has also spent decades beating into the heads of the younger generation that you must go to college to succeed. College became viewed as a necessity; a next-step in life. Schools started jacking up tuition rates and the loans never got capped, so the loan amounts became larger and larger. I remember my high school showing videos on how to pay for college, and they would give "real world" examples on making things work like "Timmy has a scholarship to state school X of $10,000, but tuition is $30,000. He does a student-work program for another $10,000, but he is still short. How does he make up the difference? Student loans! Now he can attend school! Yay!"
The kids who are being held accountable aren't the ones at fault here. They were simply doing what they were told to do. Everyone purporting the guise of college being a requirement in society failed the kids, from the parents beating it into their heads to the schools selling them a bill of goods.
I don't think so, they are generally subsidized. I agree, I am pro subsidizing the rates to help those in need get an education. Mine were like 4-6% depending, can't speak to others.
I had a huge chunk at 8%
That's the number I was thinking. I'd be in favor of tying that rate to the Prime lending rate, just like a bank loan.
Not to get too down the politics wormhole but I am also pretty by the whole student loan forgiveness thing. I get to see no beneshit from that simply because I paid off my own loans early.
I do think we could do a better job educating kids about the debt they're agreeing to take on and where it will leave them in life, etc. Rather than forgiving debt, why not tell Suzy that she will be fucked with $120K of debt and an art history degree out of the gate before the money changes hands?
My loans are paid for and I'm fine with student loan forgiveness because the whole thing is a bit more nuanced than your typical loan. Student loans are based off your parents' income and credit because your typical highschooler has neither. This country has also spent decades beating into the heads of the younger generation that you must go to college to succeed. College became viewed as a necessity; a next-step in life. Schools started jacking up tuition rates and the loans never got capped, so the loan amounts became larger and larger. I remember my high school showing videos on how to pay for college, and they would give "real world" examples on making things work like "Timmy has a scholarship to state school X of $10,000, but tuition is $30,000. He does a student-work program for another $10,000, but he is still short. How does he make up the difference? Student loans! Now he can attend school! Yay!"
The kids who are being held accountable aren't the ones at fault here. They were simply doing what they were told to do. Everyone purporting the guise of college being a requirement in society failed the kids, from the parents beating it into their heads to the schools selling them a bill of goods.
Good points here.
Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:53 pm
by ChrisoftheNorth
Our economy is based on spending money. The more people spend, the better the economy does. Where that spending money comes from is irrelevant, so easy debt with easy forgiveness keeps things moving forward. Some people make out like bandits, but others don't.
Here's how I justify living conservatively: no stress.
I just happen to be the type of person that wants to minimize stress, and I've identified finances as being a huge source of stress for me. The fact that I can meet my monthly life obligations with a job at Wendy's is immensely comforting to me in this time of crazy uncertainty. But that also means that while everyone else is buying mansions and six figure cars ZFG, I'm missing out on that. And when those people walk away free and clear, it's for sure. I also believe that for every case where someone walked away without issue, there's multiples of people who were stressed to the max trying to keep things together and probably end up being screwed with have vehicles repo'd, garbage crebitz, etc. It's all a choice, and if anything, I'm just jealous of the people that can go through life buying/doing whatever without concern for consequences.
Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:23 am
by D Griff
Detroit wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:53 pm
Our economy is based on spending money. The more people spend, the better the economy does. Where that spending money comes from is irrelevant, so easy debt with easy forgiveness keeps things moving forward. Some people make out like bandits, but others don't.
Here's how I justify living conservatively: no stress.
I just happen to be the type of person that wants to minimize stress, and I've identified finances as being a huge source of stress for me. The fact that I can meet my monthly life obligations with a job at Wendy's is immensely comforting to me in this time of crazy uncertainty. But that also means that while everyone else is buying mansions and six figure cars ZFG, I'm missing out on that. And when those people walk away free and clear, it's for sure. I also believe that for every case where someone walked away without issue, there's multiples of people who were stressed to the max trying to keep things together and probably end up being screwed with have vehicles repo'd, garbage crebitz, etc. It's all a choice, and if anything, I'm just jealous of the people that can go through life buying/doing whatever without concern for consequences.
This is a great way to look at it to be less bitter towards those who seem to wind up with so much more with no repercussions. I am certainly a natural and it likely would stress me out to have huge car/house payments or other such things or to have no money in the bank.
Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:11 am
by razr390
Our CEO postured the company to be mindful during the now difficult and more difficult market we are entering. We just got an e-mail that he is pushing a recommendation for a mid-year bonus (tied to our overall bonus for the year, but the mid year is like 1/3 of the total or more).
We always get a mid-year bonus, just curious to see what it will be %-wise as that is a good gauge on how much our end-of-year will be. I think we are at 5/7/10% depending on goals met by the company at large. Overall, I think the biggest department that would get affected by the market are our mortgage ops who we hired a fuckton ever since COVID due to the market explosion. I feel like the ones that don't necessarily have performance thresholds might get canned and the high performers get saddled with the work.
Detroit wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:53 pm
Our economy is based on spending money. The more people spend, the better the economy does. Where that spending money comes from is irrelevant, so easy debt with easy forgiveness keeps things moving forward. Some people make out like bandits, but others don't.
Here's how I justify living conservatively: no stress.
I just happen to be the type of person that wants to minimize stress, and I've identified finances as being a huge source of stress for me. The fact that I can meet my monthly life obligations with a job at Wendy's is immensely comforting to me in this time of crazy uncertainty. But that also means that while everyone else is buying mansions and six figure cars ZFG, I'm missing out on that. And when those people walk away free and clear, it's for sure. I also believe that for every case where someone walked away without issue, there's multiples of people who were stressed to the max trying to keep things together and probably end up being screwed with have vehicles repo'd, garbage crebitz, etc. It's all a choice, and if anything, I'm just jealous of the people that can go through life buying/doing whatever without concern for consequences.
This is a great way to look at it to be less bitter towards those who seem to wind up with so much more with no repercussions. I am certainly a natural and it likely would stress me out to have huge car/house payments or other such things or to have no money in the bank.
We're in a good position where the only debt we have is the mortgage, $2k on the GTI, and the remainder of the wife's student loans. I'll probably cut a check for the GTI's balance and there is enough in the bank to pay off the student loans, but with the interest deferral and possibility of $10k being forgiven, we're just letting that amount sit in the bank and collect some semblance of interest.
But because I went with a GTI instead of an R, and we bought a $270k house instead of the $350k we were approved for, we are in a good position to ride out the recession as long as we both don't become unemployed and the savings get dried up.
Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:30 pm
by wap
^Well done, Hound.
Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:56 am
by Huckleberry
wap wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:30 pm^Well done, Hound.
It's mostly my inner keeping things in check. Even when I was buying the GTI, I walked out of the dealership the first time because I had reservations taking on a car payment again.
wap wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:30 pm^Well done, Hound.
It's mostly my inner keeping things in check. Even when I was buying the GTI, I walked out of the dealership the first time because I had reservations taking on a car payment again.
inner will serve you well in these uncertain times.
Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:24 pm
by adoob
Bro’s new car is home. Will prob post it in the Cheese thread shortly.
Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:09 pm
by D Griff
adoob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:24 pm
Bro’s new car is home. Will prob post it in the Cheese thread shortly.
Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:09 pm
by D Griff
adoob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:24 pm
Bro’s new car is home. Will prob post it in the Cheese thread shortly.
, I'm not moving, have a dirt cheap interest rate, have already paid off 25-30% of original purchase price which was before it mysteriously jumped 60-70% in 2.5 years.
I feel like (as Eric puts it) 'Joe American' who bought an RV, a beach condo, and $90K CUMMINS RAM during this shitshow is the guy who really gets fucked. I hope I am right about this, but it will probably be the classic story of those who did the dumbest shit getting rewarded.
ing back in 09... when people were allowed to WALK AWAY from their ridiculous mortgages. I knew a guy who made relatively little for the time... maybe 50-60k... and he was in a 600k house (on an interest ONLY mortgage) C5Z etc... everything on stretch pay, and he kept "flipping homes for profit", until THAT one. He was allowed to "not pay" for his house for like 6 months because "it was worth less" he then renegotiated the house at like 400k, and it's probably worth 1M since... Essentially walked away from a shit ton of debt and was rewarded for financially reckless behavior. 
s for sure... financially responsible people do NOT do well... All about that risk baby.
by the whole student loan forgiveness thing. I get to see no beneshit from that simply because I paid off my own loans early. 
for sure. I also believe that for every case where someone walked away 
and it likely would stress me out to have huge car/house payments or other such 
things or to have no money in the bank.
inner 