The :baby: :baby: :baby: chronicles

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I'd mentioned a few posts back that my biggest problem with the GR86 outside of a lack of power is that it's too small to be useful for me. Why in the world would I ever consider a Supra?

My wife and I went to the Butler basketball game last night with our son, and got a babysitter for the twins for the evening. But of course, we couldn't take the 86, because my son can't fit in the back if someone is sitting in the front seat, unless that person up front has no legs. So instead, we took the Atlas. I think I've put about 5 miles on the car since we got back from Traverse City on the 9th.

Drag Boat for sale. 568 stroker Big Block Chevy, full forged motor, Lunati errthang, 8-71 Weiand, 975 hp, 23K invested. Knocked up old lady again, boat must go. $6K obo.

[D Griff]

Isn’t a manual Supra like $70k? Not exactly apples to apples. B58 is legit fast though.

Same price as the autos so mid 50's before you get bent over by the . Supras also seem to make well over 400hp.

Starts at $58,345 + ADM and other shenanigans, $70K is the cheapest you're really going to get one, so 2X a GR86 or more.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like the Supra a lot, especially now that they have , but to tell someone 'just get a Supra' when they want a bit more powah out of an 86 seems ridiculous.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

On 4psi?

As with any dyno chart, it's really critical to keep in mind the scale.

250tq comes in at 4,500RPM. Think about that in your day to day driving. Is 4,500 RPM high for your driving style (it is for me).

Torque is what you notice most on the street, but it hits 250 and stays there (which is kind of surprising for a Turbro), but 250 isn't really going to throw you back in your seat that much TBH. It's like a stock GTI roughly.

Power doesn't really start building until 5,500 RPM...again think about how high that is in daily driving

Max power (320) at 7k. That's screaming.

Would be really curious to see this overlaid with a stock graph, but I doubt you gain much noticeable until the revs pick up.

Sure there's room with moar boost, but only so much without taking apart the bottom end to add some gap to the rings and make it more willing to accept boost safely.

No replacement for displacement.

[coogles]

As with any dyno chart, it's really critical to keep in mind the scale.

250tq comes in at 4,500RPM. Think about that in your day to day driving. Is 4,500 RPM high for your driving style (it is for me).

Torque is what you notice most on the street, but it hits 250 and stays there (which is kind of surprising for a Turbro), but 250 isn't really going to throw you back in your seat that much TBH. It's like a stock GTI roughly.

Power doesn't really start building until 5,500 RPM...again think about how high that is in daily driving

Max power (320) at 7k. That's screaming.

Would be really curious to see this overlaid with a stock graph, but I doubt you gain much noticeable until the revs pick up.

Sure there's room with moar boost, but only so much without taking apart the bottom end to add some gap to the rings and make it more willing to accept boost safely.

No replacement for displacement.

Not the same dyno, but the pink line is stock, green and red are stock + tune. So 175lb ft vs 250lb - still a big difference. A 6266 is also a pretty damn big turbo capable of more than 600whp. There's no reason to run a turbo that big if the goal is 300-350whp. A 5858 would easily do that with room to spare.

[coogles]

If I keep this car (unlikely) and boost it (even more unlikely) I wouldn't choose a turbo anyway. Again, I just found the results interesting. I would want torque and area under the curve in the form of a roots/TVS blower, like the Edelbrock or Harrop kits that were available for the first gen cars.

[max225]

Same price as the autos so mid 50's before you get bent over by the . Supras also seem to make well over 400hp.

Starts at $58,345 + ADM and other shenanigans, $70K is the cheapest you're really going to get one, so 2X a GR86 or more.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like the Supra a lot, especially now that they have , but to tell someone 'just get a Supra' when they want a bit more powah out of an 86 seems ridiculous.

Its not a fair comparison with a 6cyl Supra. A 4 cyl starts at 43k which is just about 10kish more than a premium 86. For that you get a factory turbo, granted with an 8 speed auto... not sure if they would do a it puts down 220hp and 270tq to the wheels.

[max225]

If I keep this car (unlikely) and boost it (even more unlikely) I wouldn't choose a turbo anyway. Again, I just found the results interesting. I would want torque and area under the curve in the form of a roots/TVS blower, like the Edelbrock or Harrop kits that were available for the first gen cars.

Has anyone just done an OEM + type swap with an existing turbo power plant ? say from the Forester XT/WRX or whatever.

[D Griff]

Starts at $58,345 + ADM and other shenanigans, $70K is the cheapest you're really going to get one, so 2X a GR86 or more.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like the Supra a lot, especially now that they have , but to tell someone 'just get a Supra' when they want a bit more powah out of an 86 seems ridiculous.

Its not a fair comparison with a 6cyl Supra. A 4 cyl starts at 43k which is just about 10kish more than a premium 86. For that you get a factory turbo, granted with an 8 speed auto... not sure if they would do a it puts down 220hp and 270tq to the wheels.

I hear you. Still though, $12K more which is 40%. Coogs has also seemed like a guy to me always.

I see the two as pretty different beasts, one is a , light weight, stripped down sports car. One is a , fast, refined grand touring sports car.

[D Griff]

If I keep this car (unlikely) and boost it (even more unlikely) I wouldn't choose a turbo anyway. Again, I just found the results interesting. I would want torque and area under the curve in the form of a roots/TVS blower, like the Edelbrock or Harrop kits that were available for the first gen cars.

Has anyone just done an OEM + type swap with an existing turbo power plant ? say from the Forester XT/WRX or whatever.

This motor is used in the Ascent with a turbo, I'll be curious to see if this becomes a thing at any point, it's certainly a great idea in theory.

[coogles]

Its not a fair comparison with a 6cyl Supra. A 4 cyl starts at 43k which is just about 10kish more than a premium 86. For that you get a factory turbo, granted with an 8 speed auto... not sure if they would do a it puts down 220hp and 270tq to the wheels.

I hear you. Still though, $12K more which is 40%. Coogs has also seemed like a guy to me always.

I see the two as pretty different beasts, one is a , light weight, stripped down sports car. One is a , fast, refined grand touring sports car.

If it's an auto, I might as well be in the . If it doesn't have a 3rd pedal I'm not buying it.

[coogles]

Has anyone just done an OEM + type swap with an existing turbo power plant ? say from the Forester XT/WRX or whatever.

This motor is used in the Ascent with a turbo, I'll be curious to see if this becomes a thing at any point, it's certainly a great idea in theory.

Harrop used an Ascent bottom end for their initial testing on the FA24.

[max225]

So then the question becomes... can the stock clutch handle +50% power? These types of mods are always a scenario for the rest of the car resulting in some sort of slippery slope.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

If I keep this car (unlikely) and boost it (even more unlikely) I wouldn't choose a turbo anyway. Again, I just found the results interesting. I would want torque and area under the curve in the form of a roots/TVS blower, like the Edelbrock or Harrop kits that were available for the first gen cars.

Yea, a roots blower would be the fix IMO, but durability would be a huge unless it's running really low boost.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

This motor is used in the Ascent with a turbo, I'll be curious to see if this becomes a thing at any point, it's certainly a great idea in theory.

Harrop used an Ascent bottom end for their initial testing on the FA24.

Yea, the bottom end should be setup perfectly for boost. Assuming it's the same block and you wanted to light a lot of money on fire, an Ascent block with a blower or turbro would be pretty bulletproof with room for fun to be had.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

So then the question becomes... can the stock clutch handle +50% power? These types of mods are always a scenario for the rest of the car resulting in some sort of slippery slope.

The clutch died on my C5 at stock power.

So of course that means new clutch, heads, cam, rebuilt rear end, etc. Slippery slope is real.

[max225]

So then the question becomes... can the stock clutch handle +50% power? These types of mods are always a scenario for the rest of the car resulting in some sort of slippery slope.

The clutch died on my C5 at stock power.

So of course that means new clutch, heads, cam, rebuilt rear end, etc. Slippery slope is real.

K04 baby

[D Griff]

So then the question becomes... can the stock clutch handle +50% power? These types of mods are always a scenario for the rest of the car resulting in some sort of slippery slope.

I personally wouldn't

I really learned a lot on the Corvette. For example, something as simple as stickier tires can destroy your brakes/suspension and make your cooling system inadequate because you're going faster. That is at stock power. Adding power like that would make a car virtually unusable in a track type setting IMO unless you're doing a massive build and replacing everything... at which point, just buy a faster car or a race car.

I think you could street drive one of these things with some extra powah without huge issue, you can't really drive a car that hard on the street, a few stop light/on ramp pulls won't hurt anything (unless you pop a motor or something due to shitty tuning or whatever).

[golftdibrad1]

So then the question becomes... can the stock clutch handle +50% power? These types of mods are always a scenario for the rest of the car resulting in some sort of slippery slope.

I personally wouldn't

I really learned a lot on the Corvette. For example, something as simple as stickier tires can destroy your brakes/suspension and make your cooling system inadequate because you're going faster. That is at stock power. Adding power like that would make a car virtually unusable in a track type setting IMO unless you're doing a massive build and replacing everything... at which point, just buy a faster car or a race car.

I think you could street drive one of these things with some extra powah without huge issue, you can't really drive a car that hard on the street, a few stop light/on ramp pulls won't hurt anything (unless you pop a motor or something due to shitty tuning or whatever).

The supercharged miata had this problem. Autox was fine, track was no go without more mods. Never went down that path because street car. Definitely had to keep one eye on the temps at TOTD, by that time i had standalone and would cheat to get both fans running, and they kicked on at lower temp, and i did 70/30 coolant...etc etc.

IMHO 10-20% extra power is ok and you can cheat stuff to make it work but beyond that you have to start seriously looking at every system, and at least consider failure paths.

[coogles]

Dumping more money into the Odyssey.

Replacing the tires. It has some garbage eco Firestones on it that were shit when new, and they're worse now. I figured they'd be terrible in the snow and I was absolutely right. No traction anywhere, but the real motivator is that I went over a small bridge over a creek yesterday and just about lost the thing - the bridge was clearly frozen but the van instantly started to go sideways as soon as I hit it, before jerking straight again as soon as the rear tires hit asphalt on the other side. Thankfully didn't panic, just tried to keep the thing stable until it found grip again. But yeah, trying not to die out there. Gonna get it aligned at the same time.

Getting some of these:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.js ... dClar=EX-L

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Dumping more money into the Odyssey.

Replacing the tires. It has some garbage eco Firestones on it that were shit when new, and they're worse now. I figured they'd be terrible in the snow and I was absolutely right. No traction anywhere, but the real motivator is that I went over a small bridge over a creek yesterday and just about lost the thing - the bridge was clearly frozen but the van instantly started to go sideways as soon as I hit it, before jerking straight again as soon as the rear tires hit asphalt on the other side. Thankfully didn't panic, just tried to keep the thing stable until it found grip again. But yeah, trying not to die out there. Gonna get it aligned at the same time.

Getting some of these:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.js ... dClar=EX-L

Wow, those things have serious sipes for an AS. Good choice IMO.

[coogles]

Dumping more money into the Odyssey.

Replacing the tires. It has some garbage eco Firestones on it that were shit when new, and they're worse now. I figured they'd be terrible in the snow and I was absolutely right. No traction anywhere, but the real motivator is that I went over a small bridge over a creek yesterday and just about lost the thing - the bridge was clearly frozen but the van instantly started to go sideways as soon as I hit it, before jerking straight again as soon as the rear tires hit asphalt on the other side. Thankfully didn't panic, just tried to keep the thing stable until it found grip again. But yeah, trying not to die out there. Gonna get it aligned at the same time.

Getting some of these:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.js ... dClar=EX-L

Wow, those things have serious sipes for an AS. Good choice IMO.

Thanks. Hope so! Those Vredesteins seems to get universally glowing reviews.

[Desertbreh]

Wow, those things have serious sipes for an AS. Good choice IMO.

Thanks. Hope so! Those Vredesteins seems to get universally glowing reviews.

Nothing about replacing shitty and or/worn tires. It's just what has to be done.

[coogles]

Thanks. Hope so! Those Vredesteins seems to get universally glowing reviews.

Nothing about replacing shitty and or/worn tires. It's just what has to be done.

Ha. I know. This will just be about $3k in maintenance after buying my "cheap" minivan.

[max225]

Nothing about replacing shitty and or/worn tires. It's just what has to be done.

Ha. I know. This will just be about $3k in maintenance after buying my "cheap" minivan.

If you keep it for a while it makes sense... But any used car will have some issues here and there that require $$... I think laid out 1k (Brake fluid, oil, rear brake pads, blower motor) on the Benz that had a full history... and I am pretty sure the man in the desert did another 1k (shocks, rear rotors) .. to bring it even further up to stuff.

[coogles]

Ha. I know. This will just be about $3k in maintenance after buying my "cheap" minivan.

If you keep it for a while it makes sense... But any used car will have some issues here and there that require $$... I think laid out 1k (Brake fluid, oil, rear brake pads, blower motor) on the Benz that had a full history... and I am pretty sure the man in the desert did another 1k (shocks, rear rotors) .. to bring it even further up to stuff.

For sure. The plan is probably for ~3 years of ownership. If the new Pilot is any indication, Honda isn't going to fuck up the next Odyssey (keeping the V6, 10spd auto, keeping the necessary physical controls, etc.), so the plan is to buy one of those in the 2nd model year. I would guess 2024 will bring the new generation of Odyssey, so we'll plan to pick up a 2025 in probably fall of '25. The '86 will be paid for by then, so perfect time to replace the hooptie.