OT XXX: COVID Off Topic

[troyguitar]

Lol, if your point was to address that vaccines work, just post the efficacy studies. The reality is, that's not your point. Your point is to try to tie politics to death rate poorly, so you can claim a moral victory and spike the football on some graves.

There's more of a spread in vaccination rate between democrats and independents, than independents and Republicunts. Vaccination rate correlates more strongly with being a democrat or not than it does being a republican or not.

Race is just one correlation that's stronger than political affiliation. College educated too. But you only bring up the one that supports your tribalism.

Clearly you missed the arguments here earlier where our brightest and best were claiming that the efficacy studies are bogus and that THE VACCINES DON'T WORK ON DELTA...

They fucking do work. That's my point and has been for months. Go get one and stop with the excuses.

I do enjoy laughing at the Trumpers, though... you're right about that. Dying from a disease that you say isn't serious, when your savior made a free vaccine for you? That's some top tier Darwin Award material. Since nobody seems interested in having factual discussions, I'd rather post funny stuff like that. Why try to reason with the unreasonable?

[MrH42]

I looked back. Max questioned the efficacy of the vaccine on delta, and it didn't look like anyone had good data on it. He was being factual. But didn't he leave awhile back? Who are you even arguing with?

You're just shit posting and being a shitty person in the process. Stop trying to justify it.

[troyguitar]

I looked back. Max questioned the efficacy of the vaccine on delta, and it didn't look like anyone had good data on it. He was being factual. But didn't he leave awhile back? Who are you even arguing with?

You're just shit posting and being a shitty person in the process. Stop trying to justify it.

He's still here, just lurking until he finds something to boast about how much better he is than the rest of us... but he's not the only one actively questioning vaccines here. We have several folks in various states of because, I guess they're smarter than medical researchers?

But fine, I'm a piece of shit for wanting people to believe in science and care about their own survival. Fuck me. I'm the bad guy.

[MrH42]

I looked back. Max questioned the efficacy of the vaccine on delta, and it didn't look like anyone had good data on it. He was being factual. But didn't he leave awhile back? Who are you even arguing with?

You're just shit posting and being a shitty person in the process. Stop trying to justify it.

He's still here, just lurking until he finds something to boast about how much better he is than the rest of us... but he's not the only one actively questioning vaccines here. We have several folks in various states of because, I guess they're smarter than medical researchers?

But fine, I'm a piece of shit for wanting people to believe in science and care about their own survival. Fuck me. I'm the bad guy.

God forbid someone is slightly skeptical and wants to understand the data better. That's literally the basis of science. It would do you some good to adopt a little skepticism and desire to understand data. Maybe you wouldn't post such garbage.

No, you're a piece of shit for dancing on graves and claiming empathy and that you care about people's survival. Don't try and twist your sad little tribalism into altruism. You aren't fooling anyone with that garbage.

[troyguitar]

He's still here, just lurking until he finds something to boast about how much better he is than the rest of us... but he's not the only one actively questioning vaccines here. We have several folks in various states of because, I guess they're smarter than medical researchers?

But fine, I'm a piece of shit for wanting people to believe in science and care about their own survival. Fuck me. I'm the bad guy.

God forbid someone is slightly skeptical and wants to understand the data better. That's literally the basis of science. It would do you some good to adopt a little skepticism and desire to understand data. Maybe you wouldn't post such garbage.

No, you're a piece of shit for dancing on graves and claiming empathy and that you care about people's survival. Don't try and twist your sad little tribalism into altruism. You aren't fooling anyone with that garbage.

Refusing to accept what you don't already believe is not skepticism.

In this whole exchange, you have presented exactly zero data while continuing to insult me further in every post. How about you stop trying to paint me as the bad guy based on things I never said and instead actually present an argument of your own?

You seem to be arguing that Trump-voting-rates are not correlated to vaccination rates or that vaccination does not significantly reduce the likelihood of death, but you refuse to state it outright or support it with any evidence. What is your point and why?

[MrH42]

God forbid someone is slightly skeptical and wants to understand the data better. That's literally the basis of science. It would do you some good to adopt a little skepticism and desire to understand data. Maybe you wouldn't post such garbage.

No, you're a piece of shit for dancing on graves and claiming empathy and that you care about people's survival. Don't try and twist your sad little tribalism into altruism. You aren't fooling anyone with that garbage.

Refusing to accept what you don't already believe is not skepticism.

In this whole exchange, you have presented exactly zero data while continuing to insult me further in every post. How about you stop trying to paint me as the bad guy based on things I never said and instead actually present an argument of your own?

You seem to be arguing that Trump-voting-rates are not correlated to vaccination rates or that vaccination does not significantly reduce the likelihood of death, but you refuse to state it outright or support it with any evidence. What is your point and why?

I pointed out multiple things that have stronger correlation to vaccination status than who you voted for. I guess you missed that part.

My point is that loose correlations to try to win points for your tribe is stupid, divisive, and non-productive. Grave dancing, regardless of the cause, is what makes you a bad guy. Be better.

[wap]

Finally said “fuck it” and got the vaccine just to avoid hassles with travel and doing things like going to shows. Pfizer dose one on 9/10. Dose two scheduled for 10/1, but I’ll see if I can get it a day early, since I’ll be up in Utah for my mom’s funeral on the First.

No side effects from the first pin. Felt tired the next day, but also have been emotionally drained and had a shit ton going on lately. They put it in my left shoulder. Went to the gym a few hours after the shot and trained shoulders, so not sure if that helped alleviate any short term symptoms by moving the blood in there around a bit.

I am disturbed by our government's mandate to rush vaccinations of children under 16 y/o. FDA approved over 16 on Aug 23rd, yet here we are jabbing every 12 y/o and up to "protect them". Target set on 5-12 y/o next. No shot, no school/sports/indoor access such as restaurants, community centers, gyms, etc without two approved vaccines. Also amazed that private corps can demand immunization records as a term of employment thanks to emergency measures act or whatever. It's such a shitty over-reach on the gov part to allow this to happen, IMO.

I'm still in the clear on the work front, but won't be accessing any indoor public areas without a shot as of today. It's basically check-mate, I'll probably get the jab in a few weeks or when they make it mandatory in my place of work. If things go well, I won't look back and can enjoy the notion of added protection whether I need it or not. Pfizer seems to be the one making the quickest strides with getting FDA approvals, so that'll be my poison of choice.

Oh well, I did what I could to support my freedom to choose what's right for my family, and even with an election the majority rules in favor of socialism. I still don't think it's anything more than coercion and should be illegal

Doesn't Canada have vaccine requirements for polio, measles, mumps, etc, for children to be able enter school?

[troyguitar]

Refusing to accept what you don't already believe is not skepticism.

In this whole exchange, you have presented exactly zero data while continuing to insult me further in every post. How about you stop trying to paint me as the bad guy based on things I never said and instead actually present an argument of your own?

You seem to be arguing that Trump-voting-rates are not correlated to vaccination rates or that vaccination does not significantly reduce the likelihood of death, but you refuse to state it outright or support it with any evidence. What is your point and why?

I pointed out multiple things that have stronger correlation to vaccination status than who you voted for. I guess you missed that part.

My point is that loose correlations to try to win points for your tribe is stupid, divisive, and non-productive. Grave dancing, regardless of the cause, is what makes you a bad guy. Be better.

I want people to stop making choices that hurt themselves and their communities (which by extension hurts me and my community). That includes voting R and skipping free vaccines. They need to be better.

[MrH42]

I pointed out multiple things that have stronger correlation to vaccination status than who you voted for. I guess you missed that part.

My point is that loose correlations to try to win points for your tribe is stupid, divisive, and non-productive. Grave dancing, regardless of the cause, is what makes you a bad guy. Be better.

I want people to stop making choices that hurt themselves and their communities (which by extension hurts me and my community). That includes voting R and skipping free vaccines. They need to be better.

Laughing and celebrating their death is a great, empathetic way to convince people. You're right. You're the hero.


It's funny. You try and disguise this as empathy, but then you go ahead and tell us what you're really after. You don't give a shit about their lives. You care if they vote with you so you can get what you want. This is why you're a bad person. Political affiliation is the deciding factor on whether they deserve your empathy. This is why you're trash and I'm calling you out for it.

[troyguitar]

I want people to stop making choices that hurt themselves and their communities (which by extension hurts me and my community). That includes voting R and skipping free vaccines. They need to be better.

Laughing and celebrating their death is a great, empathetic way to convince people. You're right. You're the hero.


It's funny. You try and disguise this as empathy, but then you go ahead and tell us what you're really after. You don't give a shit about their lives. You care if they vote with you so you can get what you want. This is why you're a bad person. Political affiliation is the deciding factor on whether they deserve your empathy. This is why you're trash and I'm calling you out for it.

Convince people? There is no convincing a Trumper of anything. Why would I try? I can choose to either be angered or entertained by them. I care about their lives in that I do hope that they choose to care about and help themselves and those around them, but until they do I will not mourn or carry the blame for their failures.

Call that trash all you want, but I'm not Jesus Christ or a dog and I don't think that unconditional love for all people is even reasonable. Some people need a kick in the ass - or, rather, a shot in the arm.

[MrH42]

Laughing and celebrating their death is a great, empathetic way to convince people. You're right. You're the hero.


It's funny. You try and disguise this as empathy, but then you go ahead and tell us what you're really after. You don't give a shit about their lives. You care if they vote with you so you can get what you want. This is why you're a bad person. Political affiliation is the deciding factor on whether they deserve your empathy. This is why you're trash and I'm calling you out for it.

Convince people? There is no convincing a Trumper of anything. Why would I try? I can choose to either be angered or entertained by them. I care about their lives in that I do hope that they choose to care about and help themselves and those around them, but until they do I will not mourn or carry the blame for their failures.

Call that trash all you want, but I'm not Jesus Christ or a dog and I don't think that unconditional love for all people is even reasonable. Some people need a kick in the ass - or, rather, a shot in the arm.

Yes, not dancing on the grave of those you disagree with is really tough


If you can't be Jesus Christ himself, might as well be trash. What a sad mindset.

[SAWCE]

Convince people? There is no convincing a Trumper of anything. Why would I try? I can choose to either be angered or entertained by them. I care about their lives in that I do hope that they choose to care about and help themselves and those around them, but until they do I will not mourn or carry the blame for their failures.

Call that trash all you want, but I'm not Jesus Christ or a dog and I don't think that unconditional love for all people is even reasonable. Some people need a kick in the ass - or, rather, a shot in the arm.

Yes, not dancing on the grave of those you disagree with is really tough


If you can't be Jesus Christ himself, might as well be trash. What a sad mindset.

I'm failing to see how Troy posting a graph that somebody else made is "dancing on the grave" of those people.. I'd have to go back and check all his posts, but he never celebrated their deaths that I can recall.

[MrH42]

That graph is purposely deceitful to drive a political agenda.

[SAWCE]

That graph is purposely deceitful to drive a political agenda.

Be that as it may, Troy neither made it nor was he celebrating the deaths of those on it.

[MrH42]

That graph is purposely deceitful to drive a political agenda.

Be that as it may, Troy neither made it nor was he celebrating the deaths of those on it.

If you don't want to count laughing at and posting horribly misleading data as grave dancing, that's fine. Call it what you want, that doesn't really matter. It's garbage regardless. I said it was a potato brain take. It would be one thing to laugh and say yeah, it was just for the :lulz: He tried to defend that! Either we aren't being intellectually honest here, or we got some serious smooth brains. I don't know which is worse for the forum honestly.

[troyguitar]

That graph is purposely deceitful to drive a political agenda.

It's a political agenda, but I don't understand the deception. Here are the numbers used to generate it:



The political agenda is that voting R is voting against life, liberty, and happiness for the vast majority of people in this country. It's an attempt to get people to realize that, while simultaneously showing that VACCINES DO WORK AGAINST DELTA, MAX.

Obviously you somehow disagree with both of those points. Do you care to support either of those opinions with anything remotely factual, or would you rather continue insulting me?

I've tried hard not to insult you in all of this, but I'm near the end of my rope.

[4zilch]

FWIW there’s like 4 active people left on this forum, grave dancing or not, ain’t nobody seeing it so

[MrH42]

That graph is purposely deceitful to drive a political agenda.

It's a political agenda, but I don't understand the deception. Here are the numbers used to generate it:



The political agenda is that voting R is voting against life, liberty, and happiness for the vast majority of people in this country. It's an attempt to get people to realize that, while simultaneously showing that VACCINES DO WORK AGAINST DELTA, MAX.

Obviously you somehow disagree with both of those points. Do you care to support either of those opinions with anything remotely factual, or would you rather continue insulting me?

I've tried hard not to insult you in all of this, but I'm near the end of my rope.

You either didn't read my posts at all, or didn't comprehend what I was saying, if you think posting the table behind the graph is going to help convince me. I know how graphs work.

[troyguitar]

Also, I wish that I knew how to fucking dance.

[MrH42]

In all seriousness, read this. That graph is almost like it was constructed using half the points in the book.

[troyguitar]

It's a political agenda, but I don't understand the deception. Here are the numbers used to generate it:



The political agenda is that voting R is voting against life, liberty, and happiness for the vast majority of people in this country. It's an attempt to get people to realize that, while simultaneously showing that VACCINES DO WORK AGAINST DELTA, MAX.

Obviously you somehow disagree with both of those points. Do you care to support either of those opinions with anything remotely factual, or would you rather continue insulting me?

I've tried hard not to insult you in all of this, but I'm near the end of my rope.

You either didn't read my posts at all, or didn't comprehend what I was saying, if you think posting the table behind the graph is going to help convince me. I know how graphs work.

WHAT IS YOUR FUCKING POINT? Let's do this in 2 parts since you can't seem to handle multiple topics at once.

Are TRUMP voters more or less likely to be vaccinated than non-TRUMP voters?

[MrH42]

You either didn't read my posts at all, or didn't comprehend what I was saying, if you think posting the table behind the graph is going to help convince me. I know how graphs work.

WHAT IS YOUR FUCKING POINT? Let's do this in 2 parts since you can't seem to handle multiple topics at once.

Are TRUMP voters more or less likely to be vaccinated than non-TRUMP voters?

On average, slightly. However, there is demographic data that is much more strongly correlated on whether they chose to take the vaccine or not than political affiliation. It's a pretty weak correlation. Race, income, education, and religion are all much, much greater predictors of vaccine hesitancy than simply who you voted for. Also important to note, you're taking the average leaning of the county, and attributing it to the individual outcome. It's assumptions on top of assumptions. Voter turnout can greatly affect this.

I think it would swing either direction too, btw, depending on who is in the white house. If Trump had won, and was pushing the vaccine, I think we would see the opposite, with fewer democrats on average getting vaccinated than Republicunts. That's the problem. It's being politicized. But again, it's a weak correlation.

[troyguitar]

I know that you want to pull apart some of these stats, and that's fine. I assume you're looking at something like this NBC poll?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... s-n1277514

Where these are the self-reported party affiliations of adults who claim to be vaccinated:

Democrats: 88 percent
Independents: 60 percent
Republicunts: 55 percent

That's why you say Democrat or Not Democrat is the real question, right?

Setting aside the issues with all of this being self-reported, the same poll showed a much more stark contrast in (again, self-reported) voting:

Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91 percent
Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50 percent

What data are you using to conclude that Trump voters are vaccinated at the same rates as non-Trump voters?

[troyguitar]

I think it would swing either direction too, btw, depending on who is in the white house. If Trump had won, and was pushing the vaccine, I think we would see the opposite, with fewer democrats on average getting vaccinated than Republicunts. That's the problem. It's being politicized. But again, it's a weak correlation.

There's obviously no way to test that, but this is where I think you're entirely

I don't know a single person who would not get vaccinated under Trump, assuming similar levels of documented efficacy/safety. Only one side thinks that facts are up for debate.

I know many people who were hesitant or simply refuse under Biden, because they don't trust scientists more than politicians.

[MrH42]

I know that you want to pull apart some of these stats, and that's fine. I assume you're looking at something like this NBC poll?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... s-n1277514

Where these are the self-reported party affiliations of adults who claim to be vaccinated:

Democrats: 88 percent
Independents: 60 percent
Republicunts: 55 percent

That's why you say Democrat or Not Democrat is the real question, right?

Setting aside the issues with all of this being self-reported, the same poll showed a much more stark contrast in (again, self-reported) voting:

Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91 percent
Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50 percent

What data are you using to conclude that Trump voters are vaccinated at the same rates as non-Trump voters?

Self reported party affiliation and vaccination claim introduces a big polling bias, but yes, that tells us that whether or not you're a democrat is a bigger indicator than whether or not you're a republican.

Either way, political affiliation is not a very strong correlation. So that's the first problem. There are more we can go through: timeline of the data, vaccine rate and death rate correlation, etc