OT 20: rotisserie roller coaster

Off-topic? You mean on-topic!
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D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:10 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:24 am
I've been working very hard over the last few years to stay as open as I can politically. While I have my own views (I think most everyone does), I want to try to understand other view points so I can better relate and maybe even change my own views. The problem is, not many others feel this way, so you need to read through/around attacks and :bs: which I've learned to do pretty well and not get :triggered: when I strongly disagree with someone. I'm not going to change their opinion, so the best I can do is try to understand it and agree to disagree.

There's certainly elements of Max's political leanings that I :notwrong: sometimes.
I do think many of us would be better served as a whole if we were more open minded. I also think we are where we are as a nation because there are so many different view points. It is rare that there is a black and white right and :wrong: , the reality is the compromises serve many people the best.

:ohwell:

Also, sometimes buying into one side wholeheartedly isn't the way. I am pretty liberal leaning for example, but there are elements of it that are just :bs: , the continued money printing of stimulus and funemployment for example, during a massive worker shortage and insane economic/inflation boom.
Agreed, for the most part I lean left and there are a few exceptions that I may not seem like. Like masks, just to prove myself that I am on which wing seems silly imo and having to wear it outside all the time when theres literally not one person within a 100 meters around me.

For the funemployment, I mean Im all ok for someone who actually needs it for rent and only use it until they actually find a job, or takes care of the kid. Because face it, 1,800 bucks per month is not enough to pay for rent alone in my neck of the woods. But there are a couple that I know that actually takes fully advantage of it and can get a job if they want, kinda selfish tbh. Doesnt help with the fact of labor shortage and all that. For that reason in particular Im glad it ended and pretty soon the shortage may not be as much of a concern than it is now. I feel like there should be some sort of eligibility for getting approved for it.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:10 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:24 am
I've been working very hard over the last few years to stay as open as I can politically. While I have my own views (I think most everyone does), I want to try to understand other view points so I can better relate and maybe even change my own views. The problem is, not many others feel this way, so you need to read through/around attacks and :bs: which I've learned to do pretty well and not get :triggered: when I strongly disagree with someone. I'm not going to change their opinion, so the best I can do is try to understand it and agree to disagree.

There's certainly elements of Max's political leanings that I :notwrong: sometimes.
I do think many of us would be better served as a whole if we were more open minded. I also think we are where we are as a nation because there are so many different view points. It is rare that there is a black and white right and :wrong: , the reality is the compromises serve many people the best.

:ohwell:

Also, sometimes buying into one side wholeheartedly isn't the way. I am pretty liberal leaning for example, but there are elements of it that are just :bs: , the continued money printing of stimulus and funemployment for example, during a massive worker shortage and insane economic/inflation boom.
It's sad now because people are being bucketed into right or left and discouraged to deviate at all. It's not just political beliefs anymore, but an identity, and that's just WRONG.

Wife and I used to enjoy attending some redneck fair events like demo derbys. Was fun to watch cars smash into each other, cheer, and feel like a kid again. She wanted to go this year, and when we drove by the fairgrounds, I looked into the pits to see nothing but cars painted with Trump, FUCK Biden, FUCK YOUR FEELINGS, etc and I told her I just couldn't do it. She didn't care, but I just can't enjoy something when politics have become the over-arching identity. And it's not even because I don't care for Trump, I DON'T CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT POLITICS. If the cars were painted up in liberal propaganda I'd be just as :nope: :disgust:

The us vs them division in general is just sad. I'm over it. And the crazy thing is, it's not just a US thing. This sort of division is happening everywhere in the world. Humanity isn't going down a great path right now...
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:12 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:10 pm

I do think many of us would be better served as a whole if we were more open minded. I also think we are where we are as a nation because there are so many different view points. It is rare that there is a black and white right and :wrong: , the reality is the compromises serve many people the best.

:ohwell:

Also, sometimes buying into one side wholeheartedly isn't the way. I am pretty liberal leaning for example, but there are elements of it that are just :bs: , the continued money printing of stimulus and funemployment for example, during a massive worker shortage and insane economic/inflation boom.
It's sad now because people are being bucketed into right or left and discouraged to deviate at all. It's not just political beliefs anymore, but an identity, and that's just WRONG.

Wife and I used to enjoy attending some redneck fair events like demo derbys. Was fun to watch cars smash into each other, cheer, and feel like a kid again. She wanted to go this year, and when we drove by the fairgrounds, I looked into the pits to see nothing but cars painted with Trump, FUCK Biden, FUCK YOUR FEELINGS, etc and I told her I just couldn't do it. She didn't care, but I just can't enjoy something when politics have become the over-arching identity. And it's not even because I don't care for Trump, I DON'T CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT POLITICS. If the cars were painted up in liberal propaganda I'd be just as :nope: :disgust:

The us vs them division in general is just sad. I'm over it. And the crazy thing is, it's not just a US thing. This sort of division is happening everywhere in the world. Humanity isn't going down a great path right now...
This, soo much this on the last paragraph. Which political side is like joining a sports team. Same with vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Losing friendships for opposite beliefs is just silly. I could go on and on about this.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:12 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:10 pm

I do think many of us would be better served as a whole if we were more open minded. I also think we are where we are as a nation because there are so many different view points. It is rare that there is a black and white right and :wrong: , the reality is the compromises serve many people the best.

:ohwell:

Also, sometimes buying into one side wholeheartedly isn't the way. I am pretty liberal leaning for example, but there are elements of it that are just :bs: , the continued money printing of stimulus and funemployment for example, during a massive worker shortage and insane economic/inflation boom.
It's sad now because people are being bucketed into right or left and discouraged to deviate at all. It's not just political beliefs anymore, but an identity, and that's just WRONG.

Wife and I used to enjoy attending some redneck fair events like demo derbys. Was fun to watch cars smash into each other, cheer, and feel like a kid again. She wanted to go this year, and when we drove by the fairgrounds, I looked into the pits to see nothing but cars painted with Trump, FUCK Biden, FUCK YOUR FEELINGS, etc and I told her I just couldn't do it. She didn't care, but I just can't enjoy something when politics have become the over-arching identity. And it's not even because I don't care for Trump, I DON'T CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT POLITICS. If the cars were painted up in liberal propaganda I'd be just as :nope: :disgust:

The us vs them division in general is just sad. I'm over it. And the crazy thing is, it's not just a US thing. This sort of division is happening everywhere in the world. Humanity isn't going down a great path right now...
Well said, I don't understand the identity thing. It's sort of like how I've never understood massive sports fans, people who wrap their identity into a "team" which is literally a logo, a revolving door of expendable players, and some rich suits somewhere making insane profit on it. Nothing against sports, they can be a lot of fun to watch and to come together for a shared goal, celebrate your own town/community. I just find it odd when the first thing someone says about themselves is "I'm a huge XYZ fan". It's like... your identity has nothing to do with who YOU actually are. The Trump obsessors are kind of similar IMO.

I do believe voting and being informed is important, but getting too caught up in it is also rather self destructing and isolating.

I feel like that is one downside of the internet... pre keyboard warrior stuff, I think it was customary to keep political views to yourself in most circles. I don't recall there ever being flags, hats, banners, etc. prior to 2015 really.
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MexicanYarisTK wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:12 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:10 pm

I do think many of us would be better served as a whole if we were more open minded. I also think we are where we are as a nation because there are so many different view points. It is rare that there is a black and white right and :wrong: , the reality is the compromises serve many people the best.

:ohwell:

Also, sometimes buying into one side wholeheartedly isn't the way. I am pretty liberal leaning for example, but there are elements of it that are just :bs: , the continued money printing of stimulus and funemployment for example, during a massive worker shortage and insane economic/inflation boom.
Agreed, for the most part I lean left and there are a few exceptions that I may not seem like. Like masks, just to prove myself that I am on which wing seems silly imo and having to wear it outside all the time when theres literally not one person within a 100 meters around me.

For the funemployment, I mean Im all ok for someone who actually needs it for rent and only use it until they actually find a job, or takes care of the kid. Because face it, 1,800 bucks per month is not enough to pay for rent alone in my neck of the woods. But there are a couple that I know that actually takes fully advantage of it and can get a job if they want, kinda selfish tbh. Doesnt help with the fact of labor shortage and all that. For that reason in particular Im glad it ended and pretty soon the shortage may not be as much of a concern than it is now. I feel like there should be some sort of eligibility for getting approved for it.
There's an interesting thing about the employment issue that a contractor we hired made me aware of a few weeks ago. We hired a general contractor to rebuild a room on our house, and what should have taken a month has dragged on for 4 now. He's been great with communication and very apologetic, he said he just can't find people.

One of the dudes he sent out used to own his own general contracting business. The guy was really intelligent, did great work, and was super chatty. He said he was forced to shut down most of his own business because he can't find anyone to work with him. He's offering people $30/hr CASH at the end of the day to just help him carry tools, run errands, hold things, just be a helper. Unskilled, simple work that any human in decent physical shape could do. I told him that I thought that was great money and I was shocked he couldn't find anyone and I blamed unemployment. He said it has nothing to do with unemployment, instead pointed blame at the legalization of cannabis. He said he could count 10 people that he's lost in the last 12 months to growing and selling pot.

It turns out that in my local area in northern MI where space is abundant, unskilled people THINK that growing and selling cannabis is a much easier and faster way to economic prosperity than working a job for someone else. The reality is that it's actually quite labor intensive to do it at the scale required to replace normal income streams, but everyone up here knows someone personally with a crazy operation that clears a quarter mil annually selling pot. Those stories are motivating people, and legalization made law enforcement turn a blind eye to this activity, whether it's being done legally or not.

I'd be fascinated to see if there's any sort of correlation between the lack of low skilled labor and legalization of cannabis.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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MexicanYarisTK wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:21 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:12 pm
It's sad now because people are being bucketed into right or left and discouraged to deviate at all. It's not just political beliefs anymore, but an identity, and that's just WRONG.

Wife and I used to enjoy attending some redneck fair events like demo derbys. Was fun to watch cars smash into each other, cheer, and feel like a kid again. She wanted to go this year, and when we drove by the fairgrounds, I looked into the pits to see nothing but cars painted with Trump, FUCK Biden, FUCK YOUR FEELINGS, etc and I told her I just couldn't do it. She didn't care, but I just can't enjoy something when politics have become the over-arching identity. And it's not even because I don't care for Trump, I DON'T CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT POLITICS. If the cars were painted up in liberal propaganda I'd be just as :nope: :disgust:

The us vs them division in general is just sad. I'm over it. And the crazy thing is, it's not just a US thing. This sort of division is happening everywhere in the world. Humanity isn't going down a great path right now...
This, soo much this on the last paragraph. Which political side is like joining a sports team. Same with vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Losing friendships for opposite beliefs is just silly. I could go on and on about this.
I find it incredibly sad.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:22 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:12 pm
It's sad now because people are being bucketed into right or left and discouraged to deviate at all. It's not just political beliefs anymore, but an identity, and that's just WRONG.

Wife and I used to enjoy attending some redneck fair events like demo derbys. Was fun to watch cars smash into each other, cheer, and feel like a kid again. She wanted to go this year, and when we drove by the fairgrounds, I looked into the pits to see nothing but cars painted with Trump, FUCK Biden, FUCK YOUR FEELINGS, etc and I told her I just couldn't do it. She didn't care, but I just can't enjoy something when politics have become the over-arching identity. And it's not even because I don't care for Trump, I DON'T CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT POLITICS. If the cars were painted up in liberal propaganda I'd be just as :nope: :disgust:

The us vs them division in general is just sad. I'm over it. And the crazy thing is, it's not just a US thing. This sort of division is happening everywhere in the world. Humanity isn't going down a great path right now...
Well said, I don't understand the identity thing. It's sort of like how I've never understood massive sports fans, people who wrap their identity into a "team" which is literally a logo, a revolving door of expendable players, and some rich suits somewhere making insane profit on it. Nothing against sports, they can be a lot of fun to watch and to come together for a shared goal, celebrate your own town/community. I just find it odd when the first thing someone says about themselves is "I'm a huge XYZ fan". It's like... your identity has nothing to do with who YOU actually are. The Trump obsessors are kind of similar IMO.

I do believe voting and being informed is important, but getting too caught up in it is also rather self destructing and isolating.

I feel like that is one downside of the internet... pre keyboard warrior stuff, I think it was customary to keep political views to yourself in most circles. I don't recall there ever being flags, hats, banners, etc. prior to 2015 really.
I think most people, by nature, want to belong to something. Whether it's school alumni, frat/sorority, sports team fanbase, whatever...people just gravitate toward grouping. Maybe that's instinctual and modern society mostly took away our "need" to band together in tribes like our ancestors had to, so people are trying to find a replacement. I too have never understood superfans of anything. In Michigan, there's a huge rivalry between the two big Universities here: University of Michigan and Michigan state. When I was in college at State, I'd "hate" UoM students, but then go down to ann arbor on the weekend and hang out with high school buddies going there, bang some chicks, and head back to friends who would label me a traitor. :wat: :yeahok: :whocares:

Politics used to be a taboo subject to discuss in public, but now it's no different than a sports or school rivalry. That's pretty messed up. And I agree, I think it's the internet and social media allowing people to rant with impunity and other like minded people naturally gravitate to each other and the grouping spreads. Before the internet, people would have to stand and rant on street corners, which obviously didn't end the same way.

I can't stand all the flags, hats, banners, etc. I'm only somewhat OK with that stuff during an election cycle, but now I have to stare at it constantly. My favorite house in our area is a gorgeous california craftsman style wood house directly on the water with an old barn the dude turned into a mancave thing. On that barn is a 10' permanent Trump sign. The house is worth a few Mil easy, but that sign just makes it ugly AF. And again, it's not that it's for Trump, it's that it's a damned 10' political sign ruining a gorgeous house and view of the water :disgust:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:25 pm
MexicanYarisTK wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:12 pm

Agreed, for the most part I lean left and there are a few exceptions that I may not seem like. Like masks, just to prove myself that I am on which wing seems silly imo and having to wear it outside all the time when theres literally not one person within a 100 meters around me.

For the funemployment, I mean Im all ok for someone who actually needs it for rent and only use it until they actually find a job, or takes care of the kid. Because face it, 1,800 bucks per month is not enough to pay for rent alone in my neck of the woods. But there are a couple that I know that actually takes fully advantage of it and can get a job if they want, kinda selfish tbh. Doesnt help with the fact of labor shortage and all that. For that reason in particular Im glad it ended and pretty soon the shortage may not be as much of a concern than it is now. I feel like there should be some sort of eligibility for getting approved for it.
There's an interesting thing about the employment issue that a contractor we hired made me aware of a few weeks ago. We hired a general contractor to rebuild a room on our house, and what should have taken a month has dragged on for 4 now. He's been great with communication and very apologetic, he said he just can't find people.

One of the dudes he sent out used to own his own general contracting business. The guy was really intelligent, did great work, and was super chatty. He said he was forced to shut down most of his own business because he can't find anyone to work with him. He's offering people $30/hr CASH at the end of the day to just help him carry tools, run errands, hold things, just be a helper. Unskilled, simple work that any human in decent physical shape could do. I told him that I thought that was great money and I was shocked he couldn't find anyone and I blamed unemployment. He said it has nothing to do with unemployment, instead pointed blame at the legalization of cannabis. He said he could count 10 people that he's lost in the last 12 months to growing and selling pot.

It turns out that in my local area in northern MI where space is abundant, unskilled people THINK that growing and selling cannabis is a much easier and faster way to economic prosperity than working a job for someone else. The reality is that it's actually quite labor intensive to do it at the scale required to replace normal income streams, but everyone up here knows someone personally with a crazy operation that clears a quarter mil annually selling pot. Those stories are motivating people, and legalization made law enforcement turn a blind eye to this activity, whether it's being done legally or not.

I'd be fascinated to see if there's any sort of correlation between the lack of low skilled labor and legalization of cannabis.
Interesting! It is nowhere near legal here, I don't think it's even in discussion.

I don't doubt the contractor is telling the truth, but it feels a bit far fetched to me that that would cause a national shortage at this level. People need money today to pay bills, buy food, drive to wherever, etc. I can't imagine starting your own cannabis growth operation could possibly generate any revenue for at least a year, if ever.

I could imagine someone getting unemployment/free money thinking 'now is my chance to start my own biz growing weed' and giving it a whirl while the free cheddar is rolling in. I bet many of those people would be back to happily accepting $30/hour cash from contractor bro if they had zero money coming in to pay rent. That is equivalent to making like $100K at a corporate job, although you don't get the benefits.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:36 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:22 pm

Well said, I don't understand the identity thing. It's sort of like how I've never understood massive sports fans, people who wrap their identity into a "team" which is literally a logo, a revolving door of expendable players, and some rich suits somewhere making insane profit on it. Nothing against sports, they can be a lot of fun to watch and to come together for a shared goal, celebrate your own town/community. I just find it odd when the first thing someone says about themselves is "I'm a huge XYZ fan". It's like... your identity has nothing to do with who YOU actually are. The Trump obsessors are kind of similar IMO.

I do believe voting and being informed is important, but getting too caught up in it is also rather self destructing and isolating.

I feel like that is one downside of the internet... pre keyboard warrior stuff, I think it was customary to keep political views to yourself in most circles. I don't recall there ever being flags, hats, banners, etc. prior to 2015 really.
I think most people, by nature, want to belong to something. Whether it's school alumni, frat/sorority, sports team fanbase, whatever...people just gravitate toward grouping. Maybe that's instinctual and modern society mostly took away our "need" to band together in tribes like our ancestors had to, so people are trying to find a replacement. I too have never understood superfans of anything. In Michigan, there's a huge rivalry between the two big Universities here: University of Michigan and Michigan state. When I was in college at State, I'd "hate" UoM students, but then go down to ann arbor on the weekend and hang out with high school buddies going there, bang some chicks, and head back to friends who would label me a traitor. :wat: :yeahok: :whocares:

Politics used to be a taboo subject to discuss in public, but now it's no different than a sports or school rivalry. That's pretty messed up. And I agree, I think it's the internet and social media allowing people to rant with impunity and other like minded people naturally gravitate to each other and the grouping spreads. Before the internet, people would have to stand and rant on street corners, which obviously didn't end the same way.

I can't stand all the flags, hats, banners, etc. I'm only somewhat OK with that stuff during an election cycle, but now I have to stare at it constantly. My favorite house in our area is a gorgeous california craftsman style wood house directly on the water with an old barn the dude turned into a mancave thing. On that barn is a 10' permanent Trump sign. The house is worth a few Mil easy, but that sign just makes it ugly AF. And again, it's not that it's for Trump, it's that it's a damned 10' political sign ruining a gorgeous house and view of the water :disgust:
And at this point it's not even political... Trump is just a dude now :lolol: What an idiot.

I agree re: belonging to something... but it is just such a superficial way to belong. I'm not religious, but at least in a religion you are part of a community - you meet weekly (or often times more), you share meals together, volunteer together, do what you think is good for the world together. None of that is present in this political :bs:

I am certainly someone who loves being with people and so I do get that part of it, but why not find people you like to actually do something with? That could be track days or bike rides or hikes (things I like), or watching movies, tasting food/drink, traveling, whatever. It is just odd idolizing these people.

:ohwell:
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D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:39 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:25 pm
There's an interesting thing about the employment issue that a contractor we hired made me aware of a few weeks ago. We hired a general contractor to rebuild a room on our house, and what should have taken a month has dragged on for 4 now. He's been great with communication and very apologetic, he said he just can't find people.

One of the dudes he sent out used to own his own general contracting business. The guy was really intelligent, did great work, and was super chatty. He said he was forced to shut down most of his own business because he can't find anyone to work with him. He's offering people $30/hr CASH at the end of the day to just help him carry tools, run errands, hold things, just be a helper. Unskilled, simple work that any human in decent physical shape could do. I told him that I thought that was great money and I was shocked he couldn't find anyone and I blamed unemployment. He said it has nothing to do with unemployment, instead pointed blame at the legalization of cannabis. He said he could count 10 people that he's lost in the last 12 months to growing and selling pot.

It turns out that in my local area in northern MI where space is abundant, unskilled people THINK that growing and selling cannabis is a much easier and faster way to economic prosperity than working a job for someone else. The reality is that it's actually quite labor intensive to do it at the scale required to replace normal income streams, but everyone up here knows someone personally with a crazy operation that clears a quarter mil annually selling pot. Those stories are motivating people, and legalization made law enforcement turn a blind eye to this activity, whether it's being done legally or not.

I'd be fascinated to see if there's any sort of correlation between the lack of low skilled labor and legalization of cannabis.
Interesting! It is nowhere near legal here, I don't think it's even in discussion.

I don't doubt the contractor is telling the truth, but it feels a bit far fetched to me that that would cause a national shortage at this level. People need money today to pay bills, buy food, drive to wherever, etc. I can't imagine starting your own cannabis growth operation could possibly generate any revenue for at least a year, if ever.

I could imagine someone getting unemployment/free money thinking 'now is my chance to start my own biz growing weed' and giving it a whirl while the free cheddar is rolling in. I bet many of those people would be back to happily accepting $30/hour cash from contractor bro if they had zero money coming in to pay rent. That is equivalent to making like $100K at a corporate job, although you don't get the benefits.
Oh no, this certainly isn't driving the national labor shortage, it's just regional at most. But it got me thinking about what other sort of alternative income streams are people trying to avoid taking the $17.50/hr the Burger King on the corner is offering.

In NYC, there was no visible labor shortage. There were no help wanted signs in restaurant windows. No service issues due to low staffing. No reduced hours. Construction work was constant and everywhere. I even asked my coworkers if they noticed any issues with labor in the city and they all said it's about what it's always been like. Honestly, it was nice to be in an area that felt like the world was mostly normal again. Hell, I didn't even see any political shit anywhere.

Meanwhile, in Northern MI, every single restaurant is desperate for workers. Hours are slashed to pretty much just Thurs, Fri, Sat dinner service, and even breweries and wineries are closing down, all blaming staff issues. Construction is pretty much not happening, even municiple projects are dragging on for months longer than necessary, while the city is flying $20/hr HIRING NOW banners on construction projects. Oh, and the contractor bro said that the people he lost couldn't collect unemployment because they were never officially employed and paid into the system to begin with.

I know there's simply more people in NYC than northern MI, but the area didn't used to be like this. Something...unemployment, alternative income streams, relocation, whatever is driving a major difference.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:43 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:36 pm
I think most people, by nature, want to belong to something. Whether it's school alumni, frat/sorority, sports team fanbase, whatever...people just gravitate toward grouping. Maybe that's instinctual and modern society mostly took away our "need" to band together in tribes like our ancestors had to, so people are trying to find a replacement. I too have never understood superfans of anything. In Michigan, there's a huge rivalry between the two big Universities here: University of Michigan and Michigan state. When I was in college at State, I'd "hate" UoM students, but then go down to ann arbor on the weekend and hang out with high school buddies going there, bang some chicks, and head back to friends who would label me a traitor. :wat: :yeahok: :whocares:

Politics used to be a taboo subject to discuss in public, but now it's no different than a sports or school rivalry. That's pretty messed up. And I agree, I think it's the internet and social media allowing people to rant with impunity and other like minded people naturally gravitate to each other and the grouping spreads. Before the internet, people would have to stand and rant on street corners, which obviously didn't end the same way.

I can't stand all the flags, hats, banners, etc. I'm only somewhat OK with that stuff during an election cycle, but now I have to stare at it constantly. My favorite house in our area is a gorgeous california craftsman style wood house directly on the water with an old barn the dude turned into a mancave thing. On that barn is a 10' permanent Trump sign. The house is worth a few Mil easy, but that sign just makes it ugly AF. And again, it's not that it's for Trump, it's that it's a damned 10' political sign ruining a gorgeous house and view of the water :disgust:
And at this point it's not even political... Trump is just a dude now :lolol: What an idiot.

I agree re: belonging to something... but it is just such a superficial way to belong. I'm not religious, but at least in a religion you are part of a community - you meet weekly (or often times more), you share meals together, volunteer together, do what you think is good for the world together. None of that is present in this political :bs:

I am certainly someone who loves being with people and so I do get that part of it, but why not find people you like to actually do something with? That could be track days or bike rides or hikes (things I like), or watching movies, tasting food/drink, traveling, whatever. It is just odd idolizing these people.

:ohwell:
:dat: :dat: :dat:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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In not so fun news, Norm Macdonald died today.
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Acid666 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:53 pm In not so fun news, Norm Macdonald died today.
DUDE WHAT?!?! NO!
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Fucking cancer. We watched Dirty Work a few weeks ago, such an underrated classic. RIP Norm. :|
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:54 pm
Acid666 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:53 pm In not so fun news, Norm Macdonald died today.
DUDE WHAT?!?! NO!
Yeah I just read it on reddit. 9 year battle with cancer that he kept private.
https://deadline.com/2021/09/norm-macdo ... 234833212/
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Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:55 pm Fucking cancer. We watched Dirty Work a few weeks ago, such an underrated classic. RIP Norm. :|
Yeah I watched a lot of his shit on SNL in the mid 90s when I was in high school. Dude's the funniest/wittiest guy in the room without anyone ever realizing it.
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Acid666 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:57 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:55 pm Fucking cancer. We watched Dirty Work a few weeks ago, such an underrated classic. RIP Norm. :|
Yeah I watched a lot of his shit on SNL in the mid 90s when I was in high school. Dude's the funniest/wittiest guy in the room without anyone ever realizing it.
This is exactly what made him so great.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Acid666 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:56 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:54 pm
DUDE WHAT?!?! NO!
Yeah I just read it on reddit. 9 year battle with cancer that he kept private.
https://deadline.com/2021/09/norm-macdo ... 234833212/
Pretty amazing that he could keep it private for that long. I respect that, and sometimes wish others would do the same.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:49 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:39 pm

Interesting! It is nowhere near legal here, I don't think it's even in discussion.

I don't doubt the contractor is telling the truth, but it feels a bit far fetched to me that that would cause a national shortage at this level. People need money today to pay bills, buy food, drive to wherever, etc. I can't imagine starting your own cannabis growth operation could possibly generate any revenue for at least a year, if ever.

I could imagine someone getting unemployment/free money thinking 'now is my chance to start my own biz growing weed' and giving it a whirl while the free cheddar is rolling in. I bet many of those people would be back to happily accepting $30/hour cash from contractor bro if they had zero money coming in to pay rent. That is equivalent to making like $100K at a corporate job, although you don't get the benefits.
Oh no, this certainly isn't driving the national labor shortage, it's just regional at most. But it got me thinking about what other sort of alternative income streams are people trying to avoid taking the $17.50/hr the Burger King on the corner is offering.

In NYC, there was no visible labor shortage. There were no help wanted signs in restaurant windows. No service issues due to low staffing. No reduced hours. Construction work was constant and everywhere. I even asked my coworkers if they noticed any issues with labor in the city and they all said it's about what it's always been like. Honestly, it was nice to be in an area that felt like the world was mostly normal again. Hell, I didn't even see any political shit anywhere.

Meanwhile, in Northern MI, every single restaurant is desperate for workers. Hours are slashed to pretty much just Thurs, Fri, Sat dinner service, and even breweries and wineries are closing down, all blaming staff issues. Construction is pretty much not happening, even municiple projects are dragging on for months longer than necessary, while the city is flying $20/hr HIRING NOW banners on construction projects. Oh, and the contractor bro said that the people he lost couldn't collect unemployment because they were never officially employed and paid into the system to begin with.

I know there's simply more people in NYC than northern MI, but the area didn't used to be like this. Something...unemployment, alternative income streams, relocation, whatever is driving a major difference.
I think a lot of this has to do with people moving in the pandemic as well. Charlotte is a lot more like N. MI right now from the sounds of things. I think people with means moved out of places like NYC in droves and where did they go? Places like Charlotte and Traverse City, where they can have more space, do more stuff outside, etc. which was all key during lockdowns. Your typical restaurant worker likely doesn't have the means to up and relocate so easily. So in cities like we live in, you have more wealthy people wanting to go out to eat and build onto their houses, an other rich white person shit, meanwhile, NYC's demand has likely gone down but most of the workforce is probably there.

Also, I imagine a decent waiter at a decent place in NYC makes six figures, not so easy to make 2X subsidized unemployment in NC or MI.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:09 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:49 pm
Oh no, this certainly isn't driving the national labor shortage, it's just regional at most. But it got me thinking about what other sort of alternative income streams are people trying to avoid taking the $17.50/hr the Burger King on the corner is offering.

In NYC, there was no visible labor shortage. There were no help wanted signs in restaurant windows. No service issues due to low staffing. No reduced hours. Construction work was constant and everywhere. I even asked my coworkers if they noticed any issues with labor in the city and they all said it's about what it's always been like. Honestly, it was nice to be in an area that felt like the world was mostly normal again. Hell, I didn't even see any political shit anywhere.

Meanwhile, in Northern MI, every single restaurant is desperate for workers. Hours are slashed to pretty much just Thurs, Fri, Sat dinner service, and even breweries and wineries are closing down, all blaming staff issues. Construction is pretty much not happening, even municiple projects are dragging on for months longer than necessary, while the city is flying $20/hr HIRING NOW banners on construction projects. Oh, and the contractor bro said that the people he lost couldn't collect unemployment because they were never officially employed and paid into the system to begin with.

I know there's simply more people in NYC than northern MI, but the area didn't used to be like this. Something...unemployment, alternative income streams, relocation, whatever is driving a major difference.
I think a lot of this has to do with people moving in the pandemic as well. Charlotte is a lot more like N. MI right now from the sounds of things. I think people with means moved out of places like NYC in droves and where did they go? Places like Charlotte and Traverse City, where they can have more space, do more stuff outside, etc. which was all key during lockdowns. Your typical restaurant worker likely doesn't have the means to up and relocate so easily. So in cities like we live in, you have more wealthy people wanting to go out to eat and build onto their houses, an other rich white person shit, meanwhile, NYC's demand has likely gone down but most of the workforce is probably there.

Also, I imagine a decent waiter at a decent place in NYC makes six figures, not so easy to make 2X subsidized unemployment in NC or MI.
Oh, interesting point that it's more demand driven in our areas. I've heard anecdotally that we had a lot of richers from NYC and California move to our area, which indeed would increase demand for rich people things. Then combine that with an already limited workforce that was taken down further with funemployment, and yep...

In fact, one of the things that I really liked about NYC was no waiting anywhere. I know we were only there for 8 days, but we didn't wait to get in anywhere. Restaurants always had availability without reservations, and while I'm sure :waxer: ones we didn't want to go to might have been different, overall it was :mindblown: how easy it was to go out. It sure seemed like there were just less people in general around, but there's also SO MANY options to spread people out. But again we were there for a week with a weekend being a holiday, so I'll be curious to see how that evolves as I go back more.

Here, we don't even bother going out without a reservation or being on a list or whatever. It's impossible to get in anywhere if the place is even open. Northern MI is ridiculous right now. I imagine many other former vacation "destination" areas are in the same boat right now.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:33 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:09 pm

I think a lot of this has to do with people moving in the pandemic as well. Charlotte is a lot more like N. MI right now from the sounds of things. I think people with means moved out of places like NYC in droves and where did they go? Places like Charlotte and Traverse City, where they can have more space, do more stuff outside, etc. which was all key during lockdowns. Your typical restaurant worker likely doesn't have the means to up and relocate so easily. So in cities like we live in, you have more wealthy people wanting to go out to eat and build onto their houses, an other rich white person shit, meanwhile, NYC's demand has likely gone down but most of the workforce is probably there.

Also, I imagine a decent waiter at a decent place in NYC makes six figures, not so easy to make 2X subsidized unemployment in NC or MI.
Oh, interesting point that it's more demand driven in our areas. I've heard anecdotally that we had a lot of richers from NYC and California move to our area, which indeed would increase demand for rich people things. Then combine that with an already limited workforce that was taken down further with funemployment, and yep...

In fact, one of the things that I really liked about NYC was no waiting anywhere. I know we were only there for 8 days, but we didn't wait to get in anywhere. Restaurants always had availability without reservations, and while I'm sure :waxer: ones we didn't want to go to might have been different, overall it was :mindblown: how easy it was to go out. It sure seemed like there were just less people in general around, but there's also SO MANY options to spread people out. But again we were there for a week with a weekend being a holiday, so I'll be curious to see how that evolves as I go back more.

Here, we don't even bother going out without a reservation or being on a list or whatever. It's impossible to get in anywhere if the place is even open. Northern MI is ridiculous right now. I imagine many other former vacation "destination" areas are in the same boat right now.
All of :dat:

I personally know four couples who moved from NYC to various areas of NC since March 2020.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:19 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:33 pm
Oh, interesting point that it's more demand driven in our areas. I've heard anecdotally that we had a lot of richers from NYC and California move to our area, which indeed would increase demand for rich people things. Then combine that with an already limited workforce that was taken down further with funemployment, and yep...

In fact, one of the things that I really liked about NYC was no waiting anywhere. I know we were only there for 8 days, but we didn't wait to get in anywhere. Restaurants always had availability without reservations, and while I'm sure :waxer: ones we didn't want to go to might have been different, overall it was :mindblown: how easy it was to go out. It sure seemed like there were just less people in general around, but there's also SO MANY options to spread people out. But again we were there for a week with a weekend being a holiday, so I'll be curious to see how that evolves as I go back more.

Here, we don't even bother going out without a reservation or being on a list or whatever. It's impossible to get in anywhere if the place is even open. Northern MI is ridiculous right now. I imagine many other former vacation "destination" areas are in the same boat right now.
All of :dat:

I personally know four couples who moved from NYC to various areas of NC since March 2020.
:impressive:

NYC is pretty dope now. I'm legit looking forward to going back.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:22 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:19 pm

All of :dat:

I personally know four couples who moved from NYC to various areas of NC since March 2020.
:impressive:

NYC is pretty dope now. I'm legit looking forward to going back.
:nice:

I haven't been in years, I don't think since I quit my old job. I used to go regularly for some time in the office there; I also had friends living there to stay with free for a weekend but they all moved back here as mentioned. You're making me want to set up a trip... kind of maxed out on PTO and travel :waxer: for now :doe:
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