Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!

[MexicanYarisTK]

I’d rock a minivan. mom visited with her siblings and had a Chrysler Pacifica rental and it was genuinely

Unless you want a specific performance/function/form aspect from a car, a minivan is truly the best bang for buck in terms of utilitarian space and purpose.

When I sold my old spacers, the guy I sold it to daily's a Pacifica (with the vacuum) and we had a nice chat. Also told me how happy he was and his R was his weekend toy.

As for vans, even though the sienna and oddysey is I'd totally rock this in my fleet, especially for roadtrips.

[max225]

New bronco is being made at 150 cars per shift… expected to ramp up as of yesterday


Window stickers are out ! 17/17 mpg rating el oh El

[ChrisoftheNorth]

New bronco is being made at 150 cars per shift… expected to ramp up as of yesterday


Window stickers are out ! 17/17 mpg rating el oh El

Woa! That must be one on 35's? That's...not great.

The question is, how true to real life is it? None of the FCA products I've had come close to label MPG. My GM products tended to meet or beat the label.

[max225]

New bronco is being made at 150 cars per shift… expected to ramp up as of yesterday


Window stickers are out ! 17/17 mpg rating el oh El

Woa! That must be one on 35's? That's...not great.

The question is, how true to real life is it? None of the FCA products I've had come close to label MPG. My GM products tended to meet or beat the label.

That was launch edition on 35s I believe. Big cars+tires=shitty mpg. Nothing surprising here.

I find it funny that some expect something better in 2021/22 than prior. There really hasn't been any improvement in MPG since the 90s. Tahoe got 15mpg then and gets 15mpg now. Granted it may be bigger a more "luxurious" but the general rule of thumb still applies for most things.
15 trucks/big suvs
20 mid size trucks/suvs with some power
25 for baby dick suvs/cuvs
30-40 for various "hybrid" monsters.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Woa! That must be one on 35's? That's...not great.

The question is, how true to real life is it? None of the FCA products I've had come close to label MPG. My GM products tended to meet or beat the label.

That was launch edition on 35s I believe. Big cars+tires=shitty mpg. Nothing surprising here.

I find it funny that some expect something better in 2021/22 than prior. There really hasn't been any improvement in MPG since the 90s. Tahoe got 15mpg then and gets 15mpg now. Granted it may be bigger a more "luxurious" but the general rule of thumb still applies for most things.
15 trucks/big suvs
20 mid size trucks/suvs with some power
25 for baby dick suvs/cuvs
30-40 for various "hybrid" monsters.

My 2016 Silverado consistently impressed with fuel economy. That thing had no problem reaching low-to-mid 20's on the highway, which for a truck that size was just remarkable. That truck must have been an anomaly because everything else I've had seems to support exactly what you've noticed. The CT is the worst, it can't crack 18mpg nomatter what I do, and it has the "fuel economy" gears that according to the monroney should get 24 hwy and 19 city. nowhere even close IRL.

Mass and aero have more to do with FE than anything else. Which is why things kind of get stuck in the same ranges.

[max225]

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/d/ ... 94921.html

There are some s out there … seems like a decent way to spend some cash.

[Huckleberry]

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/d/ ... 94921.html

There are some s out there … seems like a decent way to spend some cash.

I prefer the looks of the Z3, personally.

[Huckleberry]

That was launch edition on 35s I believe. Big cars+tires=shitty mpg. Nothing surprising here.

I find it funny that some expect something better in 2021/22 than prior. There really hasn't been any improvement in MPG since the 90s. Tahoe got 15mpg then and gets 15mpg now. Granted it may be bigger a more "luxurious" but the general rule of thumb still applies for most things.
15 trucks/big suvs
20 mid size trucks/suvs with some power
25 for baby dick suvs/cuvs
30-40 for various "hybrid" monsters.

My 2016 Silverado consistently impressed with fuel economy. That thing had no problem reaching low-to-mid 20's on the highway, which for a truck that size was just remarkable. That truck must have been an anomaly because everything else I've had seems to support exactly what you've noticed. The CT is the worst, it can't crack 18mpg nomatter what I do, and it has the "fuel economy" gears that according to the monroney should get 24 hwy and 19 city. nowhere even close IRL.

Mass and aero have more to do with FE than anything else. Which is why things kind of get stuck in the same ranges.

Yeah, they make the powertrain more efficient, but then offset it by making the vehicle bigger and heavier. It would be interesting to see GM put a current 5.3/10 speed in a GMT-400 and see what kind of EPA rating it would get.

It will never happen, but you know, it would be interesting for .

[max225]

I am still mildly interested in the Bronco. It is like a defender but without the defender issues like reliability etc... Not that ford is that great but it has got to be better than LR.

The various models are a bit confusing... but Ideally I'd like one without the "Sasquash" 35" mall flex tires... I don't think it would fit vertically in my garage (door).

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I am still mildly interested in the Bronco. It is like a defender but without the defender issues like reliability etc... Not that ford is that great but it has got to be better than LR.

The various models are a bit confusing... but Ideally I'd like one without the "Sasquash" 35" mall flex tires... I don't think it would fit vertically in my garage (door).

I bet it'll be just as loud as a Wrangler and get the same gas mileage or worse. The only better element would be the drive with IFS. I'm more interested in the Defender, personally...but yea reliability is

[max225]

I am still mildly interested in the Bronco. It is like a defender but without the defender issues like reliability etc... Not that ford is that great but it has got to be better than LR.

The various models are a bit confusing... but Ideally I'd like one without the "Sasquash" 35" mall flex tires... I don't think it would fit vertically in my garage (door).

I bet it'll be just as loud as a Wrangler and get the same gas mileage or worse. The only better element would be the drive with IFS. I'm more interested in the Defender, personally...but yea reliability is

Yea except this thing has a really nice motors in it... even the base 2.3 is better than any of the FCA motors short of the 6.4.
I am curious about ride quality and noise levels for sure. The defender is VERY refined, but obviously doesn't have removable lego blocks. And with the defender I am completely stuck with the engine choices.... the base 2.slow seems too small (defender weighs 500lbs more than a wrangler) and the 3.slow seems far too complicated.

Yesterday I took the mini for a spin and was reminded that motors matter. The taco can't pass anyone without dropping a gear or 2, and is lethargic on the freeway. The mini goes 70-90 in 6th gear in seconds.

[max225]

Shitty upper dash... seems like only issue I have seen with it... and the ugly number pad. Pricing seems decent also.

Wrangler incentive going to hit 10k next year for sure. Upper end pressures from Defender... all around pressure from bronco across everything else. I am what the Wrangler does better other than perhaps long term reliability and aftermarket (for now).

[Desertbreh]

I am still mildly interested in the Bronco. It is like a defender but without the defender issues like reliability etc... Not that ford is that great but it has got to be better than LR.

The various models are a bit confusing... but Ideally I'd like one without the "Sasquash" 35" mall flex tires... I don't think it would fit vertically in my garage (door).

The whole post Covid economy is a mad mad mad world of inflation. Gas is $4-$5 (in CA) but we are offering new vehicles that in all likelihood get less than 15 mpg. I went to a local restaurant....not high end but pretty nice. New menu has no prices. You have to touch the item electronically to reveal the price. $21.50 for a club sandwich.....it was suggested that you pair that with a $25 glass of wine? I walked out.
Had my first McDoe in 2.5 years and it will likely be my last. It was like $25 for two people. Are you guys all getting 40% raises?

[max225]

I am still mildly interested in the Bronco. It is like a defender but without the defender issues like reliability etc... Not that ford is that great but it has got to be better than LR.

The various models are a bit confusing... but Ideally I'd like one without the "Sasquash" 35" mall flex tires... I don't think it would fit vertically in my garage (door).

The whole post Covid economy is a mad mad mad world of inflation. Gas is $4-$5 (in CA) but we are offering new vehicles that in all likelihood get less than 15 mpg. I went to a local restaurant....not high end but pretty nice. New menu has no prices. You have to touch the item electronically to reveal the price. $21.50 for a club sandwich.....it was suggested that you pair that with a $25 glass of wine? I walked out.
Had my first McDoe in 2.5 years and it will likely be my last. It was like $25 for two people. Are you guys all getting 40% raises?

3.5% this year my man. But you gotta remember that some people live at like 10-25% of their income.

Did some today...

Commuting 3x a week to work + regular driving will cost me around $320 a month in the taco... and $250 a month in the Mini... $320 a month is pretty cheap still IMO even at $5. (15k miles a year @18mpg)


speaking of restaurants... I mean they are the epitome of inflation at the moment. Nearly fully closed for 1 year in cali... everyone flush with cash ... easiest "experience" one can partake in. Can't wait for Hawaii hotels to cross into 4 figures.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wolfgang ... 42777.html

“People get paid really well,” Puck said. “Still, it's difficult to find people to work. At Chinois in Santa Monica it's the same thing. I cannot open for lunchtime. Or even at Spago in Beverly Hills, you know, where people, waiters, make $120,000 a year. But I cannot find them.”

[Desertbreh]

The whole post Covid economy is a mad mad mad world of inflation. Gas is $4-$5 (in CA) but we are offering new vehicles that in all likelihood get less than 15 mpg. I went to a local restaurant....not high end but pretty nice. New menu has no prices. You have to touch the item electronically to reveal the price. $21.50 for a club sandwich.....it was suggested that you pair that with a $25 glass of wine? I walked out.
Had my first McDoe in 2.5 years and it will likely be my last. It was like $25 for two people. Are you guys all getting 40% raises?

3.5% this year my man. But you gotta remember that some people live at like 10-25% of their income.

Did some today...

Commuting 3x a week to work + regular driving will cost me around $320 a month in the taco... and $250 a month in the Mini... $320 a month is pretty cheap still IMO even at $5. (15k miles a year @18mpg)


speaking of restaurants... I mean they are the epitome of inflation at the moment. Nearly fully closed for 1 year in cali... everyone flush with cash ... easiest "experience" one can partake in. Can't wait for Hawaii hotels to cross into 4 figures.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wolfgang ... 42777.html

“People get paid really well,” Puck said. “Still, it's difficult to find people to work. At Chinois in Santa Monica it's the same thing. I cannot open for lunchtime. Or even at Spago in Beverly Hills, you know, where people, waiters, make $120,000 a year. But I cannot find them.”

I feel that some prices are just increased material costs (beef, lumber) and some people are just emerging from this trying to see how much gouging they can get away with.

[max225]

3.5% this year my man. But you gotta remember that some people live at like 10-25% of their income.

Did some today...

Commuting 3x a week to work + regular driving will cost me around $320 a month in the taco... and $250 a month in the Mini... $320 a month is pretty cheap still IMO even at $5. (15k miles a year @18mpg)


speaking of restaurants... I mean they are the epitome of inflation at the moment. Nearly fully closed for 1 year in cali... everyone flush with cash ... easiest "experience" one can partake in. Can't wait for Hawaii hotels to cross into 4 figures.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wolfgang ... 42777.html

I feel that some prices are just increased material costs (beef, lumber) and some people are just emerging from this trying to see how much gouging they can get away with.

If car are any indication. A LOT. I don't understand why everyone all the sudden wants/needs cars more so than ever. Nothing has changed.

[max225]

I am mildly considering offing the Mini for a 19+ BMW i3 to commute in. Solar is going in Wednesday and It should make me "immune" to gas prices at that point. I don't think I can comfortably make a 100 mile round trip commute in the mini.

[Huckleberry]

I am still mildly interested in the Bronco. It is like a defender but without the defender issues like reliability etc... Not that ford is that great but it has got to be better than LR.

The various models are a bit confusing... but Ideally I'd like one without the "Sasquash" 35" mall flex tires... I don't think it would fit vertically in my garage (door).

I bet it'll be just as loud as a Wrangler and get the same gas mileage or worse. The only better element would be the drive with IFS. I'm more interested in the Defender, personally...but yea reliability is

Looks like the 2.3 Bronco is rated at 20 city/22 highway/21 combined, auto or manual. Not great, but not terrible. The biggest thing with the Ecoboost trucks is that the real world results always seem to be much lower than the EPA figures, and there isn't much of an indication that the Bronco can ~err~ buck that trend.

[Huckleberry]

I feel that some prices are just increased material costs (beef, lumber) and some people are just emerging from this trying to see how much gouging they can get away with.

If car are any indication. A LOT. I don't understand why everyone all the sudden wants/needs cars more so than ever. Nothing has changed.

I can't say whether it is true or not, but it seems people are pointing fingers at the urban flight as the main driver behind vehicle demand.

[max225]

If car are any indication. A LOT. I don't understand why everyone all the sudden wants/needs cars more so than ever. Nothing has changed.

I can't say whether it is true or not, but it seems people are pointing fingers at the urban flight as the main driver behind vehicle demand.

That seems like the only plausible explanation.

[Desertbreh]

I can't say whether it is true or not, but it seems people are pointing fingers at the urban flight as the main driver behind vehicle demand.

That seems like the only plausible explanation.

That and this being America so an entire year without pissing $6000 in transactional costs down your leg and rolling some more negative equity into your "portfolio" because the ashtrays were full in your Chevy Traverse is a fate worse than death.

[max225]

That seems like the only plausible explanation.

That and this being America so an entire year without pissing $6000 in transactional costs down your leg and rolling some more negative equity into your "portfolio" because the ashtrays were full in your Chevy Traverse is a fate worse than death.

California is paying off rent … after allowing people to stay home for a year and giving them 2x the minimum wage for unemployment.

This fucking card house is starting to look like
2008 all over again. It makes sense … everyone has money or access to nearly free money.

[max225]

Newer bronco vids are landing finally … man that thing is just so epic …
Even in base 35k trim, you get keyless, power everything, digidash, led headlights, nice 8” screen inside for CarPlay. 2 lockers, 35”s etc.
The 2 door is actually usable for 2 people and 4 in a pinch + it has a trunk 2x the size of the non existent wrangler.

What an absolute win. Honestly I can’t find many faults in it and considering Ford hasn’t made anything like this in ages it is shocking and all at once. They took a wrangler and improved on every area … which imo isn’t easy to do at all.

Can’t wait to see some in person. If jeep sells 250k wranglers Ford should be able to sell 350k of these things.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Newer bronco vids are landing finally … man that thing is just so epic …
Even in base 35k trim, you get keyless, power everything, digidash, led headlights, nice 8” screen inside for CarPlay. 2 lockers, 35”s etc.
The 2 door is actually usable for 2 people and 4 in a pinch + it has a trunk 2x the size of the non existent wrangler.

What an absolute win. Honestly I can’t find many faults in it and considering Ford hasn’t made anything like this in ages it is shocking and all at once. They took a wrangler and improved on every area … which imo isn’t easy to do at all.

Can’t wait to see some in person. If jeep sells 250k wranglers Ford should be able to sell 350k of these things.

The question is...why would anyone buy a Wrangler other than the brand and immediate aftermarket support. It is indeed what Ford has done here.

[troyguitar]

Newer bronco vids are landing finally … man that thing is just so epic …
Even in base 35k trim, you get keyless, power everything, digidash, led headlights, nice 8” screen inside for CarPlay. 2 lockers, 35”s etc.
The 2 door is actually usable for 2 people and 4 in a pinch + it has a trunk 2x the size of the non existent wrangler.

What an absolute win. Honestly I can’t find many faults in it and considering Ford hasn’t made anything like this in ages it is shocking and all at once. They took a wrangler and improved on every area … which imo isn’t easy to do at all.

Can’t wait to see some in person. If jeep sells 250k wranglers Ford should be able to sell 350k of these things.

The question is...why would anyone buy a Wrangler other than the brand and immediate aftermarket support. It is indeed what Ford has done here.

It's a jeep thing.