Jeeponomics 201: Toledo Griff

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D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:27 am
Detroit wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:43 am
These things are crazy susceptible to wind. I never really noticed it either until driving through the middle of farmland for hours in central MI where wind and gusts can be intense. Last time we took my JT downstate, it was so windy that it got 14mpg unloaded with cruise set at 75 and wind noise was so bad we could barely hear each other talk. It's actually made worse with cold air for some reason, and freezing temps seems to be the point between decent and horrible.

But like an abusive relationship, I still love that stupid orange truck. I'm looking forward to the highway civility of the Ram for sure, but I'm still going to miss the JT.
There was one day when the Beep Beep was brutal. We drove from Mobile, AL to Austin and stopped some along the way, it was a long ass drive and by dusk, the winds were insane. MPG dropped from 25ish to 15ish and it was constantly loud as hell, flying all over the lane, constant steering wheel moves... I hated the thing in that moment, but at the end of the trip, I was really more in love with it then I think I have been since we bought it.

We constantly got compliments on the color and random thumbs up, other people at National Parks with Beep Beeps looking at it.

The thing allegedly averaged 26.1 MPG over 6800 miles on the trip. I think this is :fakenews: and it is really more like 23, but still very :notbad: for what it is.

The interior is really nice and I found it comfortable outside of the brutal winds.

The steering "issue" really seems to be better. My theory is that maybe it's better in the cold. Based on what you shared with the aluminum of the steering box being susceptible to expanding, cold may solve that.

Power is great and finally you just can't deny the fun of the vehicle with the convertible, go anywhere attitude, neat looks. We did some soft roading in various places and got caught in a bunch of snow and it just makes it all seem like it's nothing.

The only real complaint from the trip I have is that the tech is occasionally :wtf: About once per day, we would have to reset CarPlay over and over and everything just sort of blacked out or froze and shit the bed. I also really detest all of the screens during night driving, it makes it so much harder to see. DFD has the ongoing headlight bonerz, just give me shitty old school interior gauges and lights and I can :dealwithit: with shit headlights.
Pretty :neat: update. How is your windshield ? No cracks yet ?
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max225 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:41 am
D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:27 am

There was one day when the Beep Beep was brutal. We drove from Mobile, AL to Austin and stopped some along the way, it was a long ass drive and by dusk, the winds were insane. MPG dropped from 25ish to 15ish and it was constantly loud as hell, flying all over the lane, constant steering wheel moves... I hated the thing in that moment, but at the end of the trip, I was really more in love with it then I think I have been since we bought it.

We constantly got compliments on the color and random thumbs up, other people at National Parks with Beep Beeps looking at it.

The thing allegedly averaged 26.1 MPG over 6800 miles on the trip. I think this is :fakenews: and it is really more like 23, but still very :notbad: for what it is.

The interior is really nice and I found it comfortable outside of the brutal winds.

The steering "issue" really seems to be better. My theory is that maybe it's better in the cold. Based on what you shared with the aluminum of the steering box being susceptible to expanding, cold may solve that.

Power is great and finally you just can't deny the fun of the vehicle with the convertible, go anywhere attitude, neat looks. We did some soft roading in various places and got caught in a bunch of snow and it just makes it all seem like it's nothing.

The only real complaint from the trip I have is that the tech is occasionally :wtf: About once per day, we would have to reset CarPlay over and over and everything just sort of blacked out or froze and shit the bed. I also really detest all of the screens during night driving, it makes it so much harder to see. DFD has the ongoing headlight bonerz, just give me shitty old school interior gauges and lights and I can :dealwithit: with shit headlights.
Pretty :neat: update. How is your windshield ? No cracks yet ?
Not so far! The paint seems to be pretty robust as well, we have mostly done automated washes (I've washed it myself maybe 2-3 times) and it looks great still.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:36 am
D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:27 am

There was one day when the Beep Beep was brutal. We drove from Mobile, AL to Austin and stopped some along the way, it was a long ass drive and by dusk, the winds were insane. MPG dropped from 25ish to 15ish and it was constantly loud as hell, flying all over the lane, constant steering wheel moves... I hated the thing in that moment, but at the end of the trip, I was really more in love with it then I think I have been since we bought it.

We constantly got compliments on the color and random thumbs up, other people at National Parks with Beep Beeps looking at it.

The thing allegedly averaged 26.1 MPG over 6800 miles on the trip. I think this is :fakenews: and it is really more like 23, but still very :notbad: for what it is.

The interior is really nice and I found it comfortable outside of the brutal winds.

The steering "issue" really seems to be better. My theory is that maybe it's better in the cold. Based on what you shared with the aluminum of the steering box being susceptible to expanding, cold may solve that.

Power is great and finally you just can't deny the fun of the vehicle with the convertible, go anywhere attitude, neat looks. We did some soft roading in various places and got caught in a bunch of snow and it just makes it all seem like it's nothing.

The only real complaint from the trip I have is that the tech is occasionally :wtf: About once per day, we would have to reset CarPlay over and over and everything just sort of blacked out or froze and shit the bed. I also really detest all of the screens during night driving, it makes it so much harder to see. DFD has the ongoing headlight bonerz, just give me shitty old school interior gauges and lights and I can :dealwithit: with shit headlights.
:nice:

Steering will absolutely be better in the cold. Do the same trip in the summer and you could have a very different experience.

Really glad you enjoy the beebeep, you like it for the same reasons I do.

I dim the screen/dash lighting drastically at night for the exact reason you mention. I honestly think the halogen lights in the JL/T are fantastic for halogens. LEDz are better, but sometimes a bit too white IMO.
Dimming them a ton definitely helps but I still find it rather distracting. Maybe I am just getting :wap: and it's harder to see at night. I did drive tens of thousands of miles in the dark in the Bang Bus though and never recall it bothering me, it just had a bare bones interior with like a clock and gauges.

:ohwell: I am glad they can be dimmed a lot, it's not so much a criticism of the car as much as the entire direction of the industry.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:01 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:36 am
:nice:

Steering will absolutely be better in the cold. Do the same trip in the summer and you could have a very different experience.

Really glad you enjoy the beebeep, you like it for the same reasons I do.

I dim the screen/dash lighting drastically at night for the exact reason you mention. I honestly think the halogen lights in the JL/T are fantastic for halogens. LEDz are better, but sometimes a bit too white IMO.
Dimming them a ton definitely helps but I still find it rather distracting. Maybe I am just getting :wap: and it's harder to see at night. I did drive tens of thousands of miles in the dark in the Bang Bus though and never recall it bothering me, it just had a bare bones interior with like a clock and gauges.

:ohwell: I am glad they can be dimmed a lot, it's not so much a criticism of the car as much as the entire direction of the industry.
Yea, I've been dimming my dash gauges at night for years now on all vehicles to improve night vision on the road. Screens absolutely make it worse, but it's apparently what people want.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:59 am
max225 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:41 am

Pretty :neat: update. How is your windshield ? No cracks yet ?
Not so far! The paint seems to be pretty robust as well, we have mostly done automated washes (I've washed it myself maybe 2-3 times) and it looks great still.
Yea the paint seems to hold up well
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Paint is really good. I haven't been easy on my JT and it still looks fantastic.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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I keep my gauges at like 1 click above the darkest setting at all times. Bright gauges and shit are annoying af.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:01 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:36 am
:nice:

Steering will absolutely be better in the cold. Do the same trip in the summer and you could have a very different experience.

Really glad you enjoy the beebeep, you like it for the same reasons I do.

I dim the screen/dash lighting drastically at night for the exact reason you mention. I honestly think the halogen lights in the JL/T are fantastic for halogens. LEDz are better, but sometimes a bit too white IMO.
Dimming them a ton definitely helps but I still find it rather distracting. Maybe I am just getting :wap: and it's harder to see at night. I did drive tens of thousands of miles in the dark in the Bang Bus though and never recall it bothering me, it just had a bare bones interior with like a clock and gauges.

:ohwell: I am glad they can be dimmed a lot, it's not so much a criticism of the car as much as the entire direction of the industry.
Driving to Florida I did turn the yuge screen off in the Audi. There is a button for that which is nice, because even though it can be turned down VERY dim, it's still a 10" screen in your view.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:01 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:36 am
:nice:

Steering will absolutely be better in the cold. Do the same trip in the summer and you could have a very different experience.

Really glad you enjoy the beebeep, you like it for the same reasons I do.

I dim the screen/dash lighting drastically at night for the exact reason you mention. I honestly think the halogen lights in the JL/T are fantastic for halogens. LEDz are better, but sometimes a bit too white IMO.
Dimming them a ton definitely helps but I still find it rather distracting. Maybe I am just getting :wap: and it's harder to see at night. I did drive tens of thousands of miles in the dark in the Bang Bus though and never recall it bothering me, it just had a bare bones interior with like a clock and gauges.
Did it have a compass :doe:
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max225 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:46 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:01 pm

Dimming them a ton definitely helps but I still find it rather distracting. Maybe I am just getting :wap: and it's harder to see at night. I did drive tens of thousands of miles in the dark in the Bang Bus though and never recall it bothering me, it just had a bare bones interior with like a clock and gauges.
Did it have a compass :doe:
It did not...

I actually referenced the compass many times in the Beep Beep on our trip... 5/7 feature IMO. I will stand by :wap: until death of the compass do us part.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:23 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:46 pm

Did it have a compass :doe:
It did not...

I actually referenced the compass many times in the Beep Beep on our trip... 5/7 feature IMO. I will stand by :wap: until death of the compass do us part.
Map > compass. Fight me.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:23 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:46 pm

Did it have a compass :doe:
It did not...

:rage: :ludacris: :angrypanda: :pout:
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Apex wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:29 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:23 pm

It did not...

I actually referenced the compass many times in the Beep Beep on our trip... 5/7 feature IMO. I will stand by :wap: until death of the compass do us part.
Map > compass. Fight me.
Well... it isn't really either/or. The best is having both a map and compass. We were in a lot of National Parks and places with no service - they give you a map and the car has a compass. 'Twas 5/7.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:51 pm
Apex wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:29 pm

Map > compass. Fight me.
Well... it isn't really either/or. The best is having both a map and compass. We were in a lot of National Parks and places with no service - they give you a map and the car has a compass. 'Twas 5/7.
:dat: :dat:

I reference my compass constantly when out of cell range and maps don't work. Sure, I could figure out a way to download maps or something, but when off the beaten path they tend to be ok at best.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:23 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:46 pm

Did it have a compass :doe:
It did not...

I actually referenced the compass many times in the Beep Beep on our trip... 5/7 feature IMO. I will stand by :wap: until death of the compass do us part.
:fuckyeah: :dock: compass :sissyfight: :triggered: :(
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:58 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:51 pm

Well... it isn't really either/or. The best is having both a map and compass. We were in a lot of National Parks and places with no service - they give you a map and the car has a compass. 'Twas 5/7.
:dat: :dat:

I reference my compass constantly when out of cell range and maps don't work. Sure, I could figure out a way to download maps or something, but when off the beaten path they tend to be ok at best.
:dat:
Combo of both is :muah:
Lack of either is :disgust:
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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https://www.serratraversecity.com/inven ... 84p727957/

This thing is crazy clean, the temptation is real.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:06 pm https://www.serratraversecity.com/inven ... 84p727957/

This thing is crazy clean, the temptation is real.
Yea that was my debate as well overpay for a low mile 2 gen old taco ... or 2 gen old jeep.

Can’t really go too wrong with it other than the fact that it is automatic and the Jeep circle jerkers hate that. However it actually got the 4 speed finally in 04, unlike the prior 3 speeds which is a serious travesty.

I would say if it doesn’t have rust you can’t really go wrong. It’ll probably need a suspension refresh but that’s cheap and Easy thanks to the epic aftermarket
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I want to see Dplac in a X-90
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max225 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:22 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:06 pm https://www.serratraversecity.com/inven ... 84p727957/

This thing is crazy clean, the temptation is real.
Yea that was my debate as well overpay for a low mile 2 gen old taco ... or 2 gen old jeep.

Can’t really go too wrong with it other than the fact that it is automatic and the Jeep circle jerkers hate that. However it actually got the 4 speed finally in 04, unlike the prior 3 speeds which is a serious travesty.

I would say if it doesn’t have rust you can’t really go wrong. It’ll probably need a suspension refresh but that’s cheap and Easy thanks to the epic aftermarket
TThat's what I'm thinking too. I just want a simple toy to drive around topless in the summer and maybe do some mild trail riding. Something older/simple that would need minor tinkering would be fun, but my goal would be to keep it stock (or nearly outside of suspension maintenance like you said) and super clean. Maybe 5k miles per year tops, lives in the garage all it's life, sees minimal winter weather, I don't think this thing would ever depreciate much below $16k...especially being a Rubicon.

I do wish it was a :manuel: but whatever. I actually prefer auto for wheeling, so it's fine...especially since like you said it's a 4-speed. I absolutely love that this one has the Warn bumpers (a mod I'd look to do for appearance/functionality), just needs that ugly exhaust tip chopped off :butwhy: (might be a sign that the exhaust system rusted out, which would be a bad sign).

It's 10 minutes from my house, maybe I'll check it out the next time we go into town.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:56 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:22 pm

Yea that was my debate as well overpay for a low mile 2 gen old taco ... or 2 gen old jeep.

Can’t really go too wrong with it other than the fact that it is automatic and the Jeep circle jerkers hate that. However it actually got the 4 speed finally in 04, unlike the prior 3 speeds which is a serious travesty.

I would say if it doesn’t have rust you can’t really go wrong. It’ll probably need a suspension refresh but that’s cheap and Easy thanks to the epic aftermarket
TThat's what I'm thinking too. I just want a simple toy to drive around topless in the summer and maybe do some mild trail riding. Something older/simple that would need minor tinkering would be fun, but my goal would be to keep it stock (or nearly outside of suspension maintenance like you said) and super clean. Maybe 5k miles per year tops, lives in the garage all it's life, sees minimal winter weather, I don't think this thing would ever depreciate much below $16k...especially being a Rubicon.

I do wish it was a :manuel: but whatever. I actually prefer auto for wheeling, so it's fine...especially since like you said it's a 4-speed. I absolutely love that this one has the Warn bumpers (a mod I'd look to do for appearance/functionality), just needs that ugly exhaust tip chopped off :butwhy: (might be a sign that the exhaust system rusted out, which would be a bad sign).

It's 10 minutes from my house, maybe I'll check it out the next time we go into town.
Yea I noted the tip also, the most common rust spot is @ the rear bumper where it meets the frame IIRC.

I would check it out to see if it is in good shape. You can’t really lose
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max225 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:12 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:56 pm
TThat's what I'm thinking too. I just want a simple toy to drive around topless in the summer and maybe do some mild trail riding. Something older/simple that would need minor tinkering would be fun, but my goal would be to keep it stock (or nearly outside of suspension maintenance like you said) and super clean. Maybe 5k miles per year tops, lives in the garage all it's life, sees minimal winter weather, I don't think this thing would ever depreciate much below $16k...especially being a Rubicon.

I do wish it was a :manuel: but whatever. I actually prefer auto for wheeling, so it's fine...especially since like you said it's a 4-speed. I absolutely love that this one has the Warn bumpers (a mod I'd look to do for appearance/functionality), just needs that ugly exhaust tip chopped off :butwhy: (might be a sign that the exhaust system rusted out, which would be a bad sign).

It's 10 minutes from my house, maybe I'll check it out the next time we go into town.
Yea I noted the tip also, the most common rust spot is @ the rear bumper where it meets the frame IIRC.

I would check it out to see if it is in good shape. You can’t really lose
The tip and bumpers are the only red flags. While I particularly love the bumpers, they could indicate work being done behind (as you said at common rust areas on the frame).

Carfox says it spent its entire life in northern MI, which is good because we don't use as much salt up here as other areas, and the low miles indicate that it probably wasn't exposed to much bad stuff like a normal high mileage DD would. Based on how clean it is, it was probably owned by a richer up here as a toy for their cabin.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Checking that TJ out tomorrow afternoon...should be interesting.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:31 pm Checking that TJ out tomorrow afternoon...should be interesting.
Is it at a :dillerman:

:excited: FIRST :plac: of 2021! Which reminds me... I gotta close out that thread
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max225 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:36 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:31 pm Checking that TJ out tomorrow afternoon...should be interesting.
Is it at a :dillerman:

:excited: FIRST :plac: of 2021! Which reminds me... I gotta close out that thread
Yea, at a :dillerman: :rolleyes:

So far so good though.

I sent a request for "test drive" via email...dude emailed me within 10 minutes asking when I'd like to come in. I told him tomorrow at 3 and he said "see you then".

Dang. :notbad:

Don't get your hopes up for a :plac: I'm expecting it to be not as great in person. I'm particularly concerned about seeing the underbody and frame. From what I've read, 04 TJ's are a pretty solid year overall so that's good, and while $16,2 is actually a really fair price with72k miles, it better be exceptionally clean for that. I don't NEED to buy anything, so it's got to be the right vehicle at the right price.

I considered buying one out west, but it seems like low mile TJ's are major money these days. Wouldn't be worth my hassle.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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