Detroit Moves to the Woods?

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Interesting. I knew little about them, but the few things that made me to begin with are confirmed...



Not here, gas is cheap AF...may or may not stay that way, but it would be cheaper to run a gas stove.

and



Power outages are rare, but I like knowing that a gas or wood stove can work without electricity. Sure, not all gas stoves can, but most have AA battery backup igniters in case of a power outage.

Mine works just like a hot water heater. It has a pilot light so no electricity required for simple on / off of the unit.

Our house 2 houses ago had an old ass boiler with a pilot light. I remember one HVAC dude coming to look at it saying "don't ever replace this thing, they don't make steam boilers like this anymore". Makes sense that yours is more like a water heater because that's basically what it is.

[wap]

We have a gas stove in our room over the garage/party room, with a remote with thermostat. It's 5/7. Looks cool, and it's pretty efficient too. Pro tip. The remote has a receiver that you wire into the electronics of the stove, which is a pretty simple installation. The first remote we got had a battery powered receiver, which is normally fine, BUT, when the batteries got weak, they'd still receive a signal to turn on the stove, but for whatever reason would not receive a signal to turn it off once the set temp was reached. Several times we'd go up in that room to find it over 90F with the stove blazing away. No bueno. I finally got smart a few years ago and found a remote that had a plug in receiver unit. It wired into the stove the same way, but just plugged into the wall. Fortunately, my builder left a closed off electrical box with wiring in it right behind the stove so it was simple for me to wire up an outlet and plug the thing in. It's been fine ever since.

Interesting. Probably battery powered so it works in the event of a power outage, but I too would prefer it plugging into the wall. There's an outlet behind where the stove goes for a blower fan, so it would be as simple as plugging in the wire ZFG.

We've got a dude coming out Monday to quote the job of installing a gas stove. I don't really feel like dealing with running the gas line, so we'll see what he comes back with. The job is simple other than running the gas line...the wall behind it is FIVE FEET THICK CONCRETE (yes FIVE FEET), and the ceiling is concrete, so there's going to need to be some creative thinking. There's a fresh air vent through the wall for a wood burner that's no longer needed that I'm hoping to repurpose as a run for the gas line, but we'll see what he says.

5 ft thick is . Don't forget, you do need to vent the gas stove to the outside. Most commonly, the vent has a "pipe within a pipe", one for incoming air to feed the fire, and one to vent the exhaust. So that fresh air vent may not be available to run a gas line through.

Can you go down, under the floor, to run the gas line?

[wap]

Mine works just like a hot water heater. It has a pilot light so no electricity required for simple on / off of the unit.

Our house 2 houses ago had an old ass boiler with a pilot light. I remember one HVAC dude coming to look at it saying "don't ever replace this thing, they don't make steam boilers like this anymore". Makes sense that yours is more like a water heater because that's basically what it is.

Right. Works the same as a HWH, except without the whole water bit.

Re pilot lights, I once had an HVAC guy tell me that he preferred units with pilot lights, too. I asked him if I should shut it off on the furnace (previous house with forced air heating) in the summer to save a bit of $ on gas. He said to leave it on as the constant low heat helped to prevent any dampness from the basement from rusting out the interior bits of the furnace, especially the burners.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Interesting. Probably battery powered so it works in the event of a power outage, but I too would prefer it plugging into the wall. There's an outlet behind where the stove goes for a blower fan, so it would be as simple as plugging in the wire ZFG.

We've got a dude coming out Monday to quote the job of installing a gas stove. I don't really feel like dealing with running the gas line, so we'll see what he comes back with. The job is simple other than running the gas line...the wall behind it is FIVE FEET THICK CONCRETE (yes FIVE FEET), and the ceiling is concrete, so there's going to need to be some creative thinking. There's a fresh air vent through the wall for a wood burner that's no longer needed that I'm hoping to repurpose as a run for the gas line, but we'll see what he says.

5 ft thick is . Don't forget, you do need to vent the gas stove to the outside. Most commonly, the vent has a "pipe within a pipe", one for incoming air to feed the fire, and one to vent the exhaust. So that fresh air vent may not be available to run a gas line through.

Can you go down, under the floor, to run the gas line?

Fortunately, there's an existing chimney for the wood burner with a pipe within a pipe already in it. Not sure why it has the pipe within a pipe, but glad it does. Stove dude should be able to confirm that it works, when I described it to him yesterday he said it was common, so that's good, and it should make the fresh air duct worthless.

The wall is 5' thick because it's buried in the ground (earth berm house), so digging down to get to the floor then under would be a major excavation task. I'm really hoping the fresh air duct is my savior here.

[wap]

5 ft thick is . Don't forget, you do need to vent the gas stove to the outside. Most commonly, the vent has a "pipe within a pipe", one for incoming air to feed the fire, and one to vent the exhaust. So that fresh air vent may not be available to run a gas line through.

Can you go down, under the floor, to run the gas line?

Fortunately, there's an existing chimney for the wood burner with a pipe within a pipe already in it. Not sure why it has the pipe within a pipe, but glad it does. Stove dude should be able to confirm that it works, when I described it to him yesterday he said it was common, so that's good, and it should make the fresh air duct worthless.

The wall is 5' thick because it's buried in the ground (earth berm house), so digging down to get to the floor then under would be a major excavation task. I'm really hoping the fresh air duct is my savior here.

Got it. Well, you just may be in luck then.

[CaleDeRoo]

I uh... still have that key lime pie sour in a box for you

I'm dumb and never got it out to you at the old house.

[Tar]

Re: the country folk drug addiction/pot legalization argument confuses me a little bit. I was under the impression that the drugs which are ruining lives are in largest part pain killers often prescribed by doctors, followed closely by meth. , if anything pot legalization gives people a cessation tool for harder stuff.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I uh... still have that key lime pie sour in a box for you

I'm dumb and never got it out to you at the old house.

Woops. It's probably not that great anymore...

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Re: the country folk drug addiction/pot legalization argument confuses me a little bit. I was under the impression that the drugs which are ruining lives are in largest part pain killers often prescribed by doctors, followed closely by meth. , if anything pot legalization gives people a cessation tool for harder stuff.

Admittedly, I'm not that familiar with the drug thing, I've just heard a number of people talk about how bad cannabis is as a "gateway" and how the liberals want to destroy our way of life with it. There's even a few billboards around town touting the same message.

[Tar]

Re: the country folk drug addiction/pot legalization argument confuses me a little bit. I was under the impression that the drugs which are ruining lives are in largest part pain killers often prescribed by doctors, followed closely by meth. , if anything pot legalization gives people a cessation tool for harder stuff.

Admittedly, I'm not that familiar with the drug thing, I've just heard a number of people talk about how bad cannabis is as a "gateway" and how the liberals want to destroy our way of life with it. There's even a few billboards around town touting the same message.

Hmm, I thought that gateway argument is a myth/scare tactic at best. Admittedly, I consume the devil's lettuce but have no desire to partake in any of the hard stuff.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Admittedly, I'm not that familiar with the drug thing, I've just heard a number of people talk about how bad cannabis is as a "gateway" and how the liberals want to destroy our way of life with it. There's even a few billboards around town touting the same message.

Hmm, I thought that gateway argument is a myth/scare tactic at best. Admittedly, I consume the devil's lettuce but have no desire to partake in any of the hard stuff.

It absolutely is, but people up here still believe it. I grow and consume with zero desire to try anything else.

[Tar]

Hmm, I thought that gateway argument is a myth/scare tactic at best. Admittedly, I consume the devil's lettuce but have no desire to partake in any of the hard stuff.

It absolutely is, but people up here still believe it. I grow and consume with zero desire to try anything else.

Right! So I'm chalking that up to a lack of knowledge, and stereotypes posted by the .gov in the 1950s.

Basically this:

[Tar]

I do agree that the government is way to intimate with it's citizens in an alarming way, and for personal gains. It is no wonder that people are sick of it and want change, be it in small towns or big cities. Sad that it always comes to complete systemic failures before real change takes place.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

It absolutely is, but people up here still believe it. I grow and consume with zero desire to try anything else.

Right! So I'm chalking that up to a lack of knowledge, and stereotypes posted by the .gov in the 1950s.

Basically this:

But for a lot of these people, all drugs are lumped together as bad and need to be eradicated.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I do agree that the government is way to intimate with it's citizens in an alarming way, and for personal gains. It is no wonder that people are sick of it and want change, be it in small towns or big cities. Sad that it always comes to complete systemic failures before real change takes place.

I think it's more complex than that. What I've personally witnessed is almost a tale of two countries. City folks want more .gov involvement and in many cases, I agree with it. But then rural areas want less and I agree with that as well. There are very different ways of life and while that's been the case forever, it seems the two are really starting to clash...which accounted for the rise of Trump. All the city people were excited about Biden's win, but it was way more mixed up here. This division isn't going away, and I hope we start to see some politicians who recognize that and act accordingly.

[Tar]

I do agree that the government is way to intimate with it's citizens in an alarming way, and for personal gains. It is no wonder that people are sick of it and want change, be it in small towns or big cities. Sad that it always comes to complete systemic failures before real change takes place.

I think it's more complex than that. What I've personally witnessed is almost a tale of two countries. City folks want more .gov involvement and in many cases, I agree with it. But then rural areas want less and I agree with that as well. There are very different ways of life and while that's been the case forever, it seems the two are really starting to clash...which accounted for the rise of Trump. All the city people were excited about Biden's win, but it was way more mixed up here. This division isn't going away, and I hope we start to see some politicians who recognize that and act accordingly.

I'm sorry, after re-reading that I realize that is too general of a statement and didn't come out right. I hold a grudge against some government spending which doesn't make sense. Either way, it doesn't address your concern regarding the division of population. To alleviate some animosity, it is more important now than ever for the government to be extremely transparent in an ethical. Basically I'm saying they need to strip out the bullshit, and do it ASAP.

[razr390]

I think it's more complex than that. What I've personally witnessed is almost a tale of two countries. City folks want more .gov involvement and in many cases, I agree with it. But then rural areas want less and I agree with that as well. There are very different ways of life and while that's been the case forever, it seems the two are really starting to clash...which accounted for the rise of Trump. All the city people were excited about Biden's win, but it was way more mixed up here. This division isn't going away, and I hope we start to see some politicians who recognize that and act accordingly.

I'm sorry, after re-reading that I realize that is too general of a statement and didn't come out right. I hold a grudge against some government spending which doesn't make sense. Either way, it doesn't address your concern regarding the division of population. To alleviate some animosity, it is more important now than ever for the government to be extremely transparent in an ethical. Basically I'm saying they need to strip out the bullshit, and do it ASAP.

The interesting thing is that it isn’t just happening in the United States. Plenty of division going around in most if not all “western” countries across the world. The riots in France most recently, etc.

I think there is a very fine line. People are just tired of political bullshit and everyone goes in saying different things but in reality are the same.

In the United States, we could fix the bullshit stagnation of politics by having an effective and representative third party, one that can effectively act as a “checks and balance” on the two primary parties one that has enough representatives to break stalemates.

I can very much sympathize with people who think government should do things that effectively benefit the population/citizens, but I also see the side that believes giving the government power to handle and fix ALL problems, no matter how small, is a very bad thing to do.

At the end of the day, I feel the sympathy among many is that the government no longer represents and/or works for its people, but rather just sustaining a system that we all are complicit with.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I'm sorry, after re-reading that I realize that is too general of a statement and didn't come out right. I hold a grudge against some government spending which doesn't make sense. Either way, it doesn't address your concern regarding the division of population. To alleviate some animosity, it is more important now than ever for the government to be extremely transparent in an ethical. Basically I'm saying they need to strip out the bullshit, and do it ASAP.

The interesting thing is that it isn’t just happening in the United States. Plenty of division going around in most if not all “western” countries across the world. The riots in France most recently, etc.

I think there is a very fine line. People are just tired of political bullshit and everyone goes in saying different things but in reality are the same.

In the United States, we could fix the bullshit stagnation of politics by having an effective and representative third party, one that can effectively act as a “checks and balance” on the two primary parties one that has enough representatives to break stalemates.

I can very much sympathize with people who think government should do things that effectively benefit the population/citizens, but I also see the side that believes giving the government power to handle and fix ALL problems, no matter how small, is a very bad thing to do.

At the end of the day, I feel the sympathy among many is that the government no longer represents and/or works for its people, but rather just sustaining a system that we all are complicit with.

It's a global problem because division is just getting worse. The French are upset over the same stuff I'm noticing in rural MI. Brexit is happening because of the same concerns with rural people. There's cities that need more .gov control, and there's rural areas that simply don't. Up to this point, they've been treated the same and it worked, but as social issues spring up more, and it's clear that more action needs to be taken to correct things like climate change, it's not really fair to treat everyone equally because there's different requirements in different areas. It's somewhat a state vs. fed debate...but states can't afford to maintain cities alone so the fed needs to get involved.

My wood burning stove example. NOBODY in cities use wood burning stoves. Houses aren't set up for them, wood isn't readily available, and homes are already setup with some sort of primary heating. While in rural areas, they're rather common because of their cheap heating opportunity. The EPA wants to take steps to reduce emissions, and individual home heating is one. But instead of directly studying the impacts to different regions, they just look at low hanging fruit and pass sweeping restrictions. The fact that fireplaces are allowed to continue with no restriction at all while being WAY worse than stoves for pollution, ridiculously less efficient, AND very common in populated areas, just results in a huge The REAL impact of these regulations likely won't move the needle much at all with emissions, but put a strain on people who don't need that strain. And it's the entire supply chain from people that sell them (that no longer can) to people that install them (that no longer can) to the people who depend on them for heating purposes that now have to spend more on other solutions. It also encourages people to keep older equipment going regardless of safety.

The stove issue actually drives at my beef with the EPA in general and controlling the supply side of the equation rather than the demand side. Let the old stoves continue sales, but subsidize the purchase of new efficient stoves through tax incentives. That would make people want them more. Same with cars.

[Tar]

I do agree that the government is way to intimate with it's citizens in an alarming way, and for personal gains. It is no wonder that people are sick of it and want change, be it in small towns or big cities. Sad that it always comes to complete systemic failures before real change takes place.

I think it's more complex than that. What I've personally witnessed is almost a tale of two countries. City folks want more .gov involvement and in many cases, I agree with it. But then rural areas want less and I agree with that as well. There are very different ways of life and while that's been the case forever, it seems the two are really starting to clash...which accounted for the rise of Trump. All the city people were excited about Biden's win, but it was way more mixed up here. This division isn't going away, and I hope we start to see some politicians who recognize that and act accordingly.

DP

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I think it's more complex than that. What I've personally witnessed is almost a tale of two countries. City folks want more .gov involvement and in many cases, I agree with it. But then rural areas want less and I agree with that as well. There are very different ways of life and while that's been the case forever, it seems the two are really starting to clash...which accounted for the rise of Trump. All the city people were excited about Biden's win, but it was way more mixed up here. This division isn't going away, and I hope we start to see some politicians who recognize that and act accordingly.

I'm sorry, after re-reading that I realize that is too general of a statement and didn't come out right. I hold a grudge against some government spending which doesn't make sense. Either way, it doesn't address your concern regarding the division of population. To alleviate some animosity, it is more important now than ever for the government to be extremely transparent in an ethical. Basically I'm saying they need to strip out the bullshit, and do it ASAP.

Transparency is key, and I think to an extent the most saw with Trump's unfiltered tweeting was met with by rural people who demand that sort of transparency.

I honestly think that a more moderate candidate that worked toward solving the divide by acknowledging and recognizing the differences and pushing policy for both side with maximum transparency would be quite successful.

[Tar]

I'm sorry, after re-reading that I realize that is too general of a statement and didn't come out right. I hold a grudge against some government spending which doesn't make sense. Either way, it doesn't address your concern regarding the division of population. To alleviate some animosity, it is more important now than ever for the government to be extremely transparent in an ethical. Basically I'm saying they need to strip out the bullshit, and do it ASAP.

Transparency is key, and I think to an extent the most saw with Trump's unfiltered tweeting was met with by rural people who demand that sort of transparency.

I honestly think that a more moderate candidate that worked toward solving the divide by acknowledging and recognizing the differences and pushing policy for both side with maximum transparency would be quite successful.

Switching over to desktop, me and Android mobile platform are complete buffoonery especially when I'm shit-posting and almost out of wifi range.

I don't like the way that he competes to win, it's often accompanied with some ethics fall out, like declaring voter fraud and then not backing it up. That is the moment that I call into question his role in other he said, she said pissing matches (i.e. Russian meddling in the previous election and Trump blaming the opposition party).

[razr390]

Transparency is key, and I think to an extent the most saw with Trump's unfiltered tweeting was met with by rural people who demand that sort of transparency.

I honestly think that a more moderate candidate that worked toward solving the divide by acknowledging and recognizing the differences and pushing policy for both side with maximum transparency would be quite successful.

Switching over to desktop, me and Android mobile platform are complete buffoonery especially when I'm shit-posting and almost out of wifi range.

I don't like the way that he competes to win, it's often accompanied with some ethics fall out, like declaring voter fraud and then not backing it up. That is the moment that I call into question his role in other he said, she said pissing matches (i.e. Russian meddling in the previous election and Trump blaming the opposition party).

FWIW most people (sadly) don’t care about that. They just see a guy who’s in the White House and talks/thinks freely and simply, and it makes him more relatable.

[Tar]

I'm sorry, after re-reading that I realize that is too general of a statement and didn't come out right. I hold a grudge against some government spending which doesn't make sense. Either way, it doesn't address your concern regarding the division of population. To alleviate some animosity, it is more important now than ever for the government to be extremely transparent in an ethical. Basically I'm saying they need to strip out the bullshit, and do it ASAP.

The interesting thing is that it isn’t just happening in the United States. Plenty of division going around in most if not all “western” countries across the world. The riots in France most recently, etc.

I think there is a very fine line. People are just tired of political bullshit and everyone goes in saying different things but in reality are the same.

In the United States, we could fix the bullshit stagnation of politics by having an effective and representative third party, one that can effectively act as a “checks and balance” on the two primary parties one that has enough representatives to break stalemates.

I can very much sympathize with people who think government should do things that effectively benefit the population/citizens, but I also see the side that believes giving the government power to handle and fix ALL problems, no matter how small, is a very bad thing to do.

At the end of the day, I feel the sympathy among many is that the government no longer represents and/or works for its people, but rather just sustaining a system that we all are complicit with.

I agree that most Western countries battle with the same conflict at varying degrees. Even here we struggle to pay the bills in a big way thanks to 20% inflation on top of the shit that's been building for the last decade, and our Liberal gov is rolling a 5 fold tax increase on anything Carbon emitting within the next two years. Yay, we look great on the international stage, but at what cost? And why during a pandemic when fuel usage is at an all-time, multi-decade low? People and businesses are crumbling, so who does the gov really work for? Add snitch hotlines for neighbors to call on each other and you have Toronto... I mean communist Russia, 1977.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Switching over to desktop, me and Android mobile platform are complete buffoonery especially when I'm shit-posting and almost out of wifi range.

I don't like the way that he competes to win, it's often accompanied with some ethics fall out, like declaring voter fraud and then not backing it up. That is the moment that I call into question his role in other he said, she said pissing matches (i.e. Russian meddling in the previous election and Trump blaming the opposition party).

FWIW most people (sadly) don’t care about that. They just see a guy who’s in the White House and talks/thinks freely and simply, and it makes him more relatable.

Exactly. But this should be a lesson for other candidates...transparency and open communication goes a long way. Someone that's less sketchy and slightly more eloquent could appeal to a much wider audience

[wap]

I'm sorry, after re-reading that I realize that is too general of a statement and didn't come out right. I hold a grudge against some government spending which doesn't make sense. Either way, it doesn't address your concern regarding the division of population. To alleviate some animosity, it is more important now than ever for the government to be extremely transparent in an ethical. Basically I'm saying they need to strip out the bullshit, and do it ASAP.

Transparency is key, and I think to an extent the most saw with Trump's unfiltered tweeting was met with by rural people who demand that sort of transparency.

I honestly think that a more moderate candidate that worked toward solving the divide by acknowledging and recognizing the differences and pushing policy for both side with maximum transparency would be quite successful.

How much transparency is there, really, when virtually every tweet is a fucking lie?