OT 19: Masks On, Clothes Off, Right Hand Left Titty

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Desertbreh
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Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:03 am
D Griff wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:57 am I have never actually heard of an example of someone who carried protecting themselves or others in any kind of situation. I have nothing against sport gun ownership (hunting, skeet shooting, etc.) but toting a gun around to a mall or other public area of any sort is absolutely asinine.
This is my thinking as well. I just find the train of thought interesting..."Welp, heading out to the mall to grab some new socks. Let's see...got my wallet, my keys, phone, what else...oh my gun! Can't go to the mall without that!"

:wat: :butwhy:
Here's the first step to avoid, we don't even have to reach the gun issue.
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Desertbreh wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:54 am
Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:03 am
This is my thinking as well. I just find the train of thought interesting..."Welp, heading out to the mall to grab some new socks. Let's see...got my wallet, my keys, phone, what else...oh my gun! Can't go to the mall without that!"

:wat: :butwhy:
Here's the first step to avoid, we don't even have to reach the gun issue.
:notwrong:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:27 am I'll say this (again as someone that largely has to), anyone that LIKES carrying a gun shouldn't be carrying one. It is a responsibility and should be treated like ones. If it makes you feel cool or tough time to put it down. If it is required to make you feel safe, time to never pick it up.
This should be the norm IMO.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:27 am I'll say this (again as someone that largely has to), anyone that LIKES carrying a gun shouldn't be carrying one. It is a responsibility and should be treated like ones. If it makes you feel cool or tough time to put it down. If it is required to make you feel safe, time to never pick it up.
Care to elaborate on the last sentence? I think I’m missing what you’re trying to convey..
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:27 am I'll say this (again as someone that largely has to), anyone that LIKES carrying a gun shouldn't be carrying one. It is a responsibility and should be treated like ones. If it makes you feel cool or tough time to put it down. If it is required to make you feel safe, time to never pick it up.
I haven't really thought about it like this, but I do agree I think. Most people I meet (here in the southeast at least) who carry are very proud of it and it's pretty :notsure:

That said, there are probably lots of people who carry and don't brag about, so obviously I just don't realize they do. These are probably the more levelheaded owners.

If I am out anywhere in public though, I would feel much better just knowing no one had a gun versus a select collection of responsible citizens.
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:18 pm
SAWCE wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:05 pm

Care to elaborate on the last sentence? I think I’m missing what you’re trying to convey..
They skew risk assessment for many people. Rather than looking at other ways to reduce risk many people just point to their gun as something that keeps them safe. This has two negative impacts. First, it doesn't keep you safe, it is simply a way to respond. Second, that response is an ultimate escalation rather than a stepped escalation.

If you feel like the only way to stay safe is through carrying a gun, you probably shouldn't be making the decision that gets you to that point.
:word:

I initially read it as “if you’re going into an area/situation where that’s the only way you’ll feel safe then you shouldn’t be picking it up.”

Buddy of mine back home who was delivering pizzas got jumped and robbed a few times when he had to deliver to certain areas. They couldn’t just not deliver to those areas, so he got his CCW and started carrying on those deliveries for some protection and peace of mind.
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:18 pm
SAWCE wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:05 pm

Care to elaborate on the last sentence? I think I’m missing what you’re trying to convey..
They skew risk assessment for many people. Rather than looking at other ways to reduce risk many people just point to their gun as something that keeps them safe. This has two negative impacts. First, it doesn't keep you safe, it is simply a way to respond. Second, that response is an ultimate escalation rather than a stepped escalation.

If you feel like the only way to stay safe is through carrying a gun, you probably shouldn't be making the decision that gets you to that point.
When we first moved into the city of Detroit, everyone assumed we had guns. NOBODY would be stupid enough to move into the city without guns people told us. Welllllllll because people assumed that, I was never bothered despite never having owned a gun.

Police told us that the best home security tool was a dog. They make noise and are fiercely protective, things bad people don't want to deal with. They told us to walk the dog very visibly around the block on the regular so everyone knew. I'm all about being proactive with security, if I "need" a gun, I've already lost IMO.

Which is another thing...If I were to get a gun for "home defense", "responsible gun owners" lock their guns in a safe right? So when a dude is breaking in, he's just going to chill and wait for me to get the gun out of the safe while the adrenaline is rushing at a high, it's dark, and the dog is losing her mind? I don't think so.

Wife keeps a baseball bat under her side of the bed.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:20 pm
D Griff wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:14 pm

I haven't really thought about it like this, but I do agree I think. Most people I meet (here in the southeast at least) who carry are very proud of it and it's pretty :notsure:

That said, there are probably lots of people who carry and don't brag about, so obviously I just don't realize they do. These are probably the more levelheaded owners.

If I am out anywhere in public though, I would feel much better just knowing no one had a gun versus a select collection of responsible citizens.
This is probably the larger group, but they are super quiet about it. The second group is extremely loud.
And like with everything in today’s social media ZOMG SHARE EVERYTHING!! world, the second group being louder brings way more negative attention to the issue than the quiet first group would ever even care to bring.
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SAWCE wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:29 pm
[user not found] wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:18 pm

They skew risk assessment for many people. Rather than looking at other ways to reduce risk many people just point to their gun as something that keeps them safe. This has two negative impacts. First, it doesn't keep you safe, it is simply a way to respond. Second, that response is an ultimate escalation rather than a stepped escalation.

If you feel like the only way to stay safe is through carrying a gun, you probably shouldn't be making the decision that gets you to that point.
:word:

I initially read it as “if you’re going into an area/situation where that’s the only way you’ll feel safe then you shouldn’t be picking it up.”

Buddy of mine back home who was delivering pizzas got jumped and robbed a few times when he had to deliver to certain areas. They couldn’t just not deliver to those areas, so he got his CCW and started carrying on those deliveries for some protection and peace of mind.
I still don't see what the gun solves here. Best case, he shows it and the bad dude runs off, but the more likely case is the bad dude also has a gun that he pulls out, and now the situation is about as bad as it can get. You go from losing some personal possessions to possibly your life.

So many car jackings in Detroit end up in someone being shot or dying because of this altercation. The damned car is insured and you can buy another, your life can't be bought back.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:35 pm
SAWCE wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:29 pm

:word:

I initially read it as “if you’re going into an area/situation where that’s the only way you’ll feel safe then you shouldn’t be picking it up.”

Buddy of mine back home who was delivering pizzas got jumped and robbed a few times when he had to deliver to certain areas. They couldn’t just not deliver to those areas, so he got his CCW and started carrying on those deliveries for some protection and peace of mind.
I still don't see what the gun solves here. Best case, he shows it and the bad dude runs off, but the more likely case is the bad dude also has a gun that he pulls out, and now the situation is about as bad as it can get. You go from losing some personal possessions to possibly your life.

So many car jackings in Detroit end up in someone being shot or dying because of this altercation. The damned car is insured and you can buy another, your life can't be bought back.
Real small town, so word that their driver(s) were now carrying spread quick and nobody had an issue with being robbed after that.

But I definitely see where you’re coming from.
Last edited by SAWCE on Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:35 pm
SAWCE wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:29 pm

:word:

I initially read it as “if you’re going into an area/situation where that’s the only way you’ll feel safe then you shouldn’t be picking it up.”

Buddy of mine back home who was delivering pizzas got jumped and robbed a few times when he had to deliver to certain areas. They couldn’t just not deliver to those areas, so he got his CCW and started carrying on those deliveries for some protection and peace of mind.
I still don't see what the gun solves here. Best case, he shows it and the bad dude runs off, but the more likely case is the bad dude also has a gun that he pulls out, and now the situation is about as bad as it can get. You go from losing some personal possessions to possibly your life.

So many car jackings in Detroit end up in someone being shot or dying because of this altercation. The damned car is insured and you can buy another, your life can't be bought back.
Yeah, I am lucky to have never been in such an altercation... but if I was my approach would always be do my best to stay calm and just give them whatever they want, I can work on handling that later. I never have more than $60 cash, so that and a deductible would be the only real loss.
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SAWCE wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:40 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:35 pm
I still don't see what the gun solves here. Best case, he shows it and the bad dude runs off, but the more likely case is the bad dude also has a gun that he pulls out, and now the situation is about as bad as it can get. You go from losing some personal possessions to possibly your life.

So many car jackings in Detroit end up in someone being shot or dying because of this altercation. The damned car is insured and you can buy another, your life can't be bought back.
Real small town, so word that their driver(s) were now carrying spread quick and nobody had an issue with being robbed after that.

But I definitely see where you’re coming from.
This makes sense then.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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D Griff wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:43 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:35 pm
I still don't see what the gun solves here. Best case, he shows it and the bad dude runs off, but the more likely case is the bad dude also has a gun that he pulls out, and now the situation is about as bad as it can get. You go from losing some personal possessions to possibly your life.

So many car jackings in Detroit end up in someone being shot or dying because of this altercation. The damned car is insured and you can buy another, your life can't be bought back.
Yeah, I am lucky to have never been in such an altercation... but if I was my approach would always be do my best to stay calm and just give them whatever they want, I can work on handling that later. I never have more than $60 cash, so that and a deductible would be the only real loss.
Not long after we moved to the city, there was a string of really bad/violent car jackings that were happening not far from our neighborhood. Wife and I spoke with the police about the most appropriate response and they said to get a really good look at the perpetrators gender/height/weight/complexion/etc, give them whatever, and call the police ASAP. They were the ones that told me the "cars can be replaced your life can't" line, it really stuck with me.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:32 pm
[user not found] wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:18 pm

They skew risk assessment for many people. Rather than looking at other ways to reduce risk many people just point to their gun as something that keeps them safe. This has two negative impacts. First, it doesn't keep you safe, it is simply a way to respond. Second, that response is an ultimate escalation rather than a stepped escalation.

If you feel like the only way to stay safe is through carrying a gun, you probably shouldn't be making the decision that gets you to that point.
When we first moved into the city of Detroit, everyone assumed we had guns. NOBODY would be stupid enough to move into the city without guns people told us. Welllllllll because people assumed that, I was never bothered despite never having owned a gun.

Police told us that the best home security tool was a dog. They make noise and are fiercely protective, things bad people don't want to deal with. They told us to walk the dog very visibly around the block on the regular so everyone knew. I'm all about being proactive with security, if I "need" a gun, I've already lost IMO.

Which is another thing...If I were to get a gun for "home defense", "responsible gun owners" lock their guns in a safe right? So when a dude is breaking in, he's just going to chill and wait for me to get the gun out of the safe while the adrenaline is rushing at a high, it's dark, and the dog is losing her mind? I don't think so.

Wife keeps a baseball bat under her side of the bed.
Bring dog treats, and hop in on your side of the bed.
Good to know.
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Man it sucks to read about this... you are supposed to get an animal for protection and then display it to those living around you to stay safe.

What year is it? 1250?
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Melon wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:29 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:32 pm
When we first moved into the city of Detroit, everyone assumed we had guns. NOBODY would be stupid enough to move into the city without guns people told us. Welllllllll because people assumed that, I was never bothered despite never having owned a gun.

Police told us that the best home security tool was a dog. They make noise and are fiercely protective, things bad people don't want to deal with. They told us to walk the dog very visibly around the block on the regular so everyone knew. I'm all about being proactive with security, if I "need" a gun, I've already lost IMO.

Which is another thing...If I were to get a gun for "home defense", "responsible gun owners" lock their guns in a safe right? So when a dude is breaking in, he's just going to chill and wait for me to get the gun out of the safe while the adrenaline is rushing at a high, it's dark, and the dog is losing her mind? I don't think so.

Wife keeps a baseball bat under her side of the bed.
Bring dog treats, and hop in on your side of the bed.
Good to know.
I'm a bit offended you didn't assume to hop in on my side of the bed in the first place. :hubba:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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max225 wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:31 pm Man it sucks to read about this... you are supposed to get an animal for protection and then display it to those living around you to stay safe.

What year is it? 1250?
The city of Detroit is a different world. This was also 6 years ago now, and I'm not really sure what it's like today.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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D Griff wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:57 am I have never actually heard of an example of someone who carried protecting themselves or others in any kind of situation. I have nothing against sport gun ownership (hunting, skeet shooting, etc.) but toting a gun around to a mall or other public area of any sort is absolutely asinine.
:dat: :dat: :dat:
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:27 am I'll say this (again as someone that largely has to), anyone that LIKES carrying a gun shouldn't be carrying one. It is a responsibility and should be treated like ones. If it makes you feel cool or tough time to put it down. If it is required to make you feel safe, time to never pick it up.
:bravo:
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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Aren't you statistically more likely to be shot if you have a gun in the :haus: than if you don't?
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:34 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:31 pm Man it sucks to read about this... you are supposed to get an animal for protection and then display it to those living around you to stay safe.

What year is it? 1250?
Well, it's good security advice. Statistically we are living in the safest period in human history. Doesn't matter how you slice it, it's safer than it ever had been, it's even substantially down since the 80s.
It really depends on your demographic and where you reside. The US for example was substantially safer from 1950-196X. Also crime trends since May have certainly ticked up substantially.
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wap wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:44 pm Aren't you statistically more likely to be shot if you have a gun in the :haus: than if you don't?
That's a weird way of looking at it. Statistically you're more likely to have a gun if you're in a shittier neighborhood that is more crime prone. The crimes are committed by shitty people, guns don't go out at night and shoot people.
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I am having a very difficult time finding my give a shit today. Just kind of coming off that track weekend high and wanting to look at car shit.
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:53 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:48 pm

That's a weird way of looking at it. Statistically you're more likely to have a gun if you're in a shittier neighborhood that is more crime prone. The crimes are committed by shitty people, guns don't go out at night and shoot people.
Incorrect. White wealthy people are the most likely to have guns.

Gun crime is a fairly small part of total crime.
White wealthy people are statically far less likely to commit a violent crime.
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D Griff wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:56 pm I am having a very difficult time finding my give a shit today. Just kind of coming off that track weekend high and wanting to look at car shit.
Man, I hear this.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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