Weird. That is puzzling as it's noticeably smaller than a Corvette and yet hundreds of pounds heavier, despite two less cylinders. I compare them to Corvettes a lot as I feel they are the closest thing, especially when used they kind of fall in the same range. A 370Z is basically just a C5 less the annoying scrape and with a way better interior and brakes (depending on trim).max225 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:49 amNissan spent so much money trying to lighten the last gen Z also... I am honestly puzzled why it was that heavy.Detroit wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:35 am The weight might surprise some people. There's been a lot of progress made in material engineering and lightweighting since the 370 was engineered/produced. And to keep a sports car viable, FE is critically important and weight is a big part of that.
It might also be a heffer, so who knows.
The 370Z features a front aluminum subframe, aluminum-alloy engine cradle, aluminum door panels, an all-aluminum hood, and an aluminum hatchThe 370Z uses a front double wishbone suspension, with forged aluminum control arms and steering knuckle. The rear multi-link suspension uses a forged aluminum upper control arm, lower arm and radius rod, the toe control rod is steel and wheel carrier assembly is aluminum
Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!
- ChrisoftheNorth
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So muchD Griff wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:53 amIt will be cool to learn more. I think bringing it in sub Supra would be and make it a pretty unique offering. $40K, 400 hp and 3200 pounds with would be unlike anything else.Detroit wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:35 am The weight might surprise some people. There's been a lot of progress made in material engineering and lightweighting since the 370 was engineered/produced. And to keep a sports car viable, FE is critically important and weight is a big part of that.
It might also be a heffer, so who knows.
If you really want the ultimate in performance for the money, Johnny is right, the Camaro kinda rules (Mustangs too). For some people though, a hatchback plus a smaller/lighter car makes a big difference.
This is why I prefer the Corvette to the Mustang/Camaro - it is effectively a more usable car for daily other than scrape, while also offering better fuel economy, lower consumables use on track, and is more fun on small back roads because, while still large, it isn't THAT large.
If the Z can basically be a modern C6/C7 Corvette for $40K,I think it will do fine. I personally like the look of it more and would rather "be seen" in a Z than a 'vette, not that I care that much.
I would have bought a Camaro if it was a hatchback. But being less livable than a vette was a Nissan and Subaru/Toyota have a solid opportunity to capture an abandoned section of the market with livable/usable RWD sports cars that are still somewhat attainable (start sub-$40k)
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- CaleDeRoo
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I've seen lots of different results for the Z. My friend's base + sport pack 370 was just over 3300lbs with full tank on corner balancing scales, but he didn't have the subwoofer or anything like that.
- max225
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To quote myself. The BRZ for ex has less aluminum in both the suspension and body, and is lighter still. Wonder why.
- ChrisoftheNorth
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Vette has a much more svelte body structure, especially with the structural torque tube and plastic body panels.D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:55 amWeird. That is puzzling as it's noticeably smaller than a Corvette and yet hundreds of pounds heavier, despite two less cylinders. I compare them to Corvettes a lot as I feel they are the closest thing, especially when used they kind of fall in the same range. A 370Z is basically just a C5 less the annoying scrape and with a way better interior and brakes (depending on trim).
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
It is built out of the shittiest, thinnest materials and it is physically smaller. I ride in one fairly regularly and you can dent the car easily with your index finger. Everything inside is super flimsy feeling, like take-out container compared to another car's dishwasher safe plate. It certainly worked to make it lighter, but it is evident in the feel of every piece of those cars.
- max225
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It really isn't that much smaller than a corvette. Also corvette is made of plastic. Let's not forget that. And how is it "hundreds of pounds heavier" they are at a weight parity. Unless you're talking Z06.D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:55 amWeird. That is puzzling as it's noticeably smaller than a Corvette and yet hundreds of pounds heavier, despite two less cylinders. I compare them to Corvettes a lot as I feel they are the closest thing, especially when used they kind of fall in the same range. A 370Z is basically just a C5 less the annoying scrape and with a way better interior and brakes (depending on trim).
- ChrisoftheNorth
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I really think it has a lot to do with the underlying body structure. There's been a lot of advancement in high strength steel tech and widespread use that's reduced the cost and allowed for wider adaptation to drive down weight.
BRZ is also relatively low powered by comparison, which allows for smaller/lighter driveline and chassis components.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
it is more of a ground up super car/racecar. There are things in the 370 that are better though, interior, brakes, shifter quality, approach angles. They drive really similar though, the dynamics of my C5 versus a 370Z are almost the same, power also feels about the same.Detroit wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:58 amVette has a much more svelte body structure, especially with the structural torque tube and plastic body panels.D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:55 am
Weird. That is puzzling as it's noticeably smaller than a Corvette and yet hundreds of pounds heavier, despite two less cylinders. I compare them to Corvettes a lot as I feel they are the closest thing, especially when used they kind of fall in the same range. A 370Z is basically just a C5 less the annoying scrape and with a way better interior and brakes (depending on trim).
C5s are like 3100-3250. The C5 is also significantly more roomy inside.max225 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:59 amIt really isn't that much smaller than a corvette. Also corvette is made of plastic. Let's not forget that. And how is it "hundreds of pounds heavier" they are at a weight parity. Unless you're talking Z06.D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:55 am
Weird. That is puzzling as it's noticeably smaller than a Corvette and yet hundreds of pounds heavier, despite two less cylinders. I compare them to Corvettes a lot as I feel they are the closest thing, especially when used they kind of fall in the same range. A 370Z is basically just a C5 less the annoying scrape and with a way better interior and brakes (depending on trim).
- max225
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Yea the Z rode on 19"s and had ginormous brakes. That by itself is probably 100 lbs over a BRZ, I would guess the engine + trans+driveline is another 150... so i guess here we go.Detroit wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:00 pmI really think it has a lot to do with the underlying body structure. There's been a lot of advancement in high strength steel tech and widespread use that's reduced the cost and allowed for wider adaptation to drive down weight.
BRZ is also relatively low powered by comparison, which allows for smaller/lighter driveline and chassis components.
Z has a 19 gallon gas tank which is quite in todays world of baby dick gas tanks.
- ChrisoftheNorth
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One could argue that those weight trade-offs are worth it for better performance and livability?max225 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:03 pmYea the Z rode on 19"s and had ginormous brakes. That by itself is probably 100 lbs over a BRZ, I would guess the engine + trans+driveline is another 150... so i guess here we go.Detroit wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:00 pm
I really think it has a lot to do with the underlying body structure. There's been a lot of advancement in high strength steel tech and widespread use that's reduced the cost and allowed for wider adaptation to drive down weight.
BRZ is also relatively low powered by comparison, which allows for smaller/lighter driveline and chassis components.
Z has a 19 gallon gas tank which is quite in todays world of baby dick gas tanks.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- ChrisoftheNorth
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I love the roominess of the C5. C7's feel so cramped by comparison.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- max225
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Z is around 3280-3420 IIRC. They are nearly the same, but a Z06 to a loaded auto nismo would be 250lbs. You can have certain trims that are pretty much equal.
I don't know about roomy inside... They felt quite similar to me. The C5 does have a significantly bigger hatch though. But it features no behind seats storage unlike the Z.
- troyguitar
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The 86 engine is actually very heavy for what it is, but the rest of the drivetrain is probably lighter than the Z. The suspension and subframes are all shitty heavy pieces too, all to keep the price under $30k. It's that the car is as good as it is, since it's largely just a bunch of cheap parts bin shit.max225 wrote:Yea the Z rode on 19"s and had ginormous brakes. That by itself is probably 100 lbs over a BRZ, I would guess the engine + trans+driveline is another 150... so i guess here we go.Detroit wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:00 pm I really think it has a lot to do with the underlying body structure. There's been a lot of advancement in high strength steel tech and widespread use that's reduced the cost and allowed for wider adaptation to drive down weight.
BRZ is also relatively low powered by comparison, which allows for smaller/lighter driveline and chassis components.
Z has a 19 gallon gas tank which is quite in todays world of baby dick gas tanks.
- max225
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Its interesting because the 370z was technically sub 30k as well but it features considerable engineering/material expenses pushed into it.troyguitar wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:15 pmThe 86 engine is actually very heavy for what it is, but the rest of the drivetrain is probably lighter than the Z. The suspension and subframes are all shitty heavy pieces too, all to keep the price under $30k. It's that the car is as good as it is, since it's largely just a bunch of cheap parts bin shit.max225 wrote:
Yea the Z rode on 19"s and had ginormous brakes. That by itself is probably 100 lbs over a BRZ, I would guess the engine + trans+driveline is another 150... so i guess here we go.
Z has a 19 gallon gas tank which is quite in todays world of baby dick gas tanks.
But then it falls short with dumb shit... like the road noise level were just like the lack of fender liners + sticky tires made you feel like you're literally in a fking tin can. Tiny rocks would bounce metallic noises through the entire interior. Like... it may be what... 300 grams? to add wheel liners.
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There's always trade-offs in vehicle development. Gotta draw the line somewhere in variable cost and CAPEX. I could see the development team saying performance is more important than NVH, so do that. There's also a really good chance that they had the NVH stuff in the plan, but stripped it out for cost savings or something. The stuff I'm debating with finance and program engineering to remove to hit cost targets right now are absolutely Just trying to keep the vehicle program afloat can sometimes result in really difficult and often stupid decisions.max225 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:20 pmIts interesting because the 370z was technically sub 30k as well but it features considerable engineering/material expenses pushed into it.troyguitar wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:15 pm
The 86 engine is actually very heavy for what it is, but the rest of the drivetrain is probably lighter than the Z. The suspension and subframes are all shitty heavy pieces too, all to keep the price under $30k. It's that the car is as good as it is, since it's largely just a bunch of cheap parts bin shit.
But then it falls short with dumb shit... like the road noise level were just like the lack of fender liners + sticky tires made you feel like you're literally in a fking tin can. Tiny rocks would bounce metallic noises through the entire interior. Like... it may be what... 300 grams? to add wheel liners.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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finds a way
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- max225
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It was a bad commuter. Small, low, giant wheels and unbearable road noises I bought the car thinking I was going to move to sf and it’ll be a weekender.
I since got a job in the burbs etc. things change breh.
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I have a set of howling Toyos on the Tahoe that are not even close to being replaced yet. First set was A-1 these guys started the wubba wubba after like 12K miles. I play a lot of loud music. I am Z curious I dug that car.
- max225
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I think it is a wonderful machine. Just a much more quality/put together C5. Imo. It lacks only the V8 noises but that v6 sounds darn good imo.Desertbreh wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:18 pmI have a set of howling Toyos on the Tahoe that are not even close to being replaced yet. First set was A-1 these guys started the wubba wubba after like 12K miles. I play a lot of loud music. I am Z curious I dug that car.
- ChrisoftheNorth
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I wish I was more interested in Japanese sports cars...I just always feel like a giant driving them. There aren't many 6'5" Japanese people. BRZ is the most comfortable I've found, 370 is second, but still feels cramped.
That's where the Germans shine for me personally. The room in a MINI is BMWs always seem to fit me right too.
That's where the Germans shine for me personally. The room in a MINI is BMWs always seem to fit me right too.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.