OT 17: WELCOME TO THE CORONADOME!

[Johnny_P]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/d ... ticleShare

Nothing to see here, just another flu.

DrIvEr ShOuLdN't HaVe LiCkEd ThE DoOr HaNdLe!

tho. Poor dude.

[Johnny_P]

Your point?

Oh we are engaging now?

[4zilch]

1) Nice website, I'll agree to use that as a basis. I hope it's accurate. I've been following it too.

2) Neither of those articles mention, or list a mortality rate. Only increased health issues, and lower life expectancy.
There is an increased ratio mentioned, but it's not the point of either paper to present such definite information.

In Summation:
There is no correlation between a recession and deaths.
There is between a pandemic and deaths.

Yes, it's common sense that someone might not get money for food, or there could be a suicide, but that's a statistical outlier.
The health problems are not insignificant, but are also present for a recession, loss of job, divorce, flood or any other stressful life event. On a national recession it's just widespread ans easier to track due to the large sample size.

Not only is shutting down businesses, limiting travel and issuing stay-at-home orders effective, but it's the moral thing to do.
Is it 100% efficient no? A Half-measure? Also no. I think it's as far as people in this country would allow. Most are ok with self-isolation as a means to protect themselves alone.

It's much less harmful than letting the virus run rampant.

The origin of your argument was there there is a crossing point between stabilizing the economy and preventing deaths, and I think we're there.
"X" doesn't necessarily mark the spot, but we did the best with what we had, and knew at the time.

Conclusion:
We agree on 80,000 projected deaths. That's after only (4) months in the U.S. and after rampant and widespread control measures.
That alone proves it's not just the flu, and should be treat much more seriously.

There is no correlation between deaths and recession.
Thus we can conclude the measures taken are the best ones. (I will say that we knew to do at the time, the events of March 2020 shall be debated for years to come.)

Obligatory

There is absolutely correlation between a bad economy and increased all cause death rate: I just could not find in 2 minutes of googling. Reference: Great Depression.

This 'shutdown' is a half measure in my opinion. If the goal was to better contain the virus, we should have done more. However, maybe we are doing the right thing with these measures vs damaging the economy more with more drastic shutdown. We will only know this in hindsight, unfortunately.

We agree on more than we dont here, but everyone was so quick to jump on the train for me even suggesting that what we are doing is not the exact right thing that the full wrath of the DFD groupthink came down on the olde



I still stand behind my flu statement in the sense it's an upper respiratory viral infection. Its a bad one, yes. In any given year the flu COULD mutate into something just like this and we would be doing the same thing. If you want to be scared, watch Contagion. I saw it years ago, and it scared me then.

FFS Brad, nobody knows if we’re doing the exact right. There’s no playbook for this.

But what we’re doing is probably the right thing for most of us.

You’re basically saying without having another idea. Which is nothing more than fucking bitching for the sake of bitching.

And with that groupthink bullshit.

If every person you talk to is an asshole; you’re the asshole.

[MexicanYarisTK]

This is great. Its like an already sinking ship, actively taking on water, still moving in a collision course. We just criticize how much water is acceptable before hitting the next year+ of no jobs and massive poverty.

The tough choices arent even being made yet.

Call me optimistic, but this isn't a normal recession. .gov is going to contribute hugely to helping companies recover IMO. Call is socialism or whatevs.

It could be the push to get us to universal healthcare and it could change the way companies conduct business moving forward. It ain't all doom and gloom.

DC has already reduced rent prices to begin with. Spain started a universal income when you don't have work, I think this is a good thing, to eliminate the homeless. That income thing may not work for Murica doe imo. Socialism, we seem to began heading to that direction to an extend and that approach may take place once things are nearly resolved once this is over. This isn't gonna go like this for 6 more months if not more, only time can tell.

[Wocka Wocka]

Call me optimistic, but this isn't a normal recession. .gov is going to contribute hugely to helping companies recover IMO. Call is socialism or whatevs.

It could be the push to get us to universal healthcare and it could change the way companies conduct business moving forward. It ain't all doom and gloom.

DC has already reduced prices to begin with. Spain started a universal income when you don't have work, I think this is a good thing, to eliminate the homeless. That income thing may not work for Murica doe imo. Socialism, we seem to began heading to that direction to an extend and that approach may take place once things are nearly resolved once this is over. This isn't gonna be like this for 6 more months if not more, only time can tell.

My only concern about universal income is that people here would take advantage of it not to work. I see it frequently here. I think our system needs retooled to encourage those using social welfare to work. Supplemental income perhaps. We all know minimum wage isn't enough to live on, so if that's all you can find, we can supplement that, maybe even government-run/subsidized childcare? Give people the tools they need to work and help them when wages come up short.

[Johnny_P]

[MexicanYarisTK]

DC has already reduced prices to begin with. Spain started a universal income when you don't have work, I think this is a good thing, to eliminate the homeless. That income thing may not work for Murica doe imo. Socialism, we seem to began heading to that direction to an extend and that approach may take place once things are nearly resolved once this is over. This isn't gonna be like this for 6 more months if not more, only time can tell.

My only concern about universal income is that people here would take advantage of it not to work. I see it frequently here. I think our system needs retooled to encourage those using social welfare to work. Supplemental income perhaps. We all know minimum wage isn't enough to live on, so if that's all you can find, we can supplement that, maybe even government-run/subsidized childcare? Give people the tools they need to work and help them when wages come up short.

That's also my concern, so I wouldn't be surprised. Very good points. Perhaps maybe eligibility say you want to finish your undergrad when your 30 and the like, they can give you income based on your housing, courses, if you can show proof of those and give like additional 200-300 for other things like groceries perhaps. Somewhere along those lines, pretty hard to live like a $30,000 millionaire if you ask me. But certainly not for fucking around and getting money for free.

[Wocka Wocka]

My only concern about universal income is that people here would take advantage of it not to work. I see it frequently here. I think our system needs retooled to encourage those using social welfare to work. Supplemental income perhaps. We all know minimum wage isn't enough to live on, so if that's all you can find, we can supplement that, maybe even government-run/subsidized childcare? Give people the tools they need to work and help them when wages come up short.

That's also my concern, so I wouldn't be surprised. Very good points. Perhaps maybe eligibility say you want to finish your undergrad when your 30 and the like, they can give you income based on your housing, courses, if you can show proof of those and give like additional 200-300 for other things like groceries perhaps. Somewhere along those lines, pretty hard to live like a $30,000 millionaire if you ask me. But certainly not for fucking around and getting money for free.

Yeah. My wife knows a girl who had a decent job, was making $14 or $15 an hour ten years ago. Decided she didn't want to work anymore, quit her job, got section 8 housing and has now proceeded to pop out two babies to stay on gub'ment benefits. That is what I want us to avoid encouraging.

[dubshow]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/vodka ... =home-page

in4Belarus results

The president of Belarus, a landlocked country bordering Russia, has encouraged people to drink vodka and regularly visit saunas to beat Covid-19. Alexander Lukashenko, a former collective farm boss has even prescribed the driving of tractors to fend off the virus, calling fears of coronavirus a “psychosis.”

in4swede results

Sweden remains one of the only EU countries not in lockdown, adopting a far more relaxed strategy to tackle the spread of coronavirus. As others have closed social venues, Sweden’s bars, cafes and restaurants have remained open.

Prime Minister Stefan Lofven has instead called on every citizen to take responsibility, with only the elderly and most vulnerable being told to self-isolate and stay at home. The country’s limited measures in recent weeks have included banning gatherings of more than 50 people - from an initial ban on gatherings of over 500 - and table service only at restaurants.

However, coronavirus deaths in Sweden surged from 239 on Apr.1 to 591 on Tuesday (Apr.7) - with 114 in the past 24 hours alone. Lofven’s tone shifted on Saturday as he warned the country was facing “thousands” of deaths and should prepare for that outcome. The Swedish government took steps to introduce new powers on Monday, allowing authorities to close airports, railway stations, shops and businesses without needing parliamentary approval first.

[goIftdibrad]

There is absolutely correlation between a bad economy and increased all cause death rate: I just could not find in 2 minutes of googling. Reference: Great Depression.

This 'shutdown' is a half measure in my opinion. If the goal was to better contain the virus, we should have done more. However, maybe we are doing the right thing with these measures vs damaging the economy more with more drastic shutdown. We will only know this in hindsight, unfortunately.

We agree on more than we dont here, but everyone was so quick to jump on the train for me even suggesting that what we are doing is not the exact right thing that the full wrath of the DFD groupthink came down on the olde



I still stand behind my flu statement in the sense it's an upper respiratory viral infection. Its a bad one, yes. In any given year the flu COULD mutate into something just like this and we would be doing the same thing. If you want to be scared, watch Contagion. I saw it years ago, and it scared me then.

FFS Brad, nobody knows if we’re doing the exact right. There’s no playbook for this.

But what we’re doing is probably the right thing for most of us.

You’re basically saying without having another idea. Which is nothing more than fucking bitching for the sake of bitching.

And with that groupthink bullshit.

If every person you talk to is an asshole; you’re the asshole.

How is it I keep getting words put into my proverbial mouth when are right there to read in plain sight? What is DFD for if not to do some light bitching among friends and be ? What is the harm about having a discussion about that and how it affects us?

And that's where the groupthink comes in. Apparently it's been decided that the government is doing a fine job and everything will be ok, and to think critically of the consequences / advantages of those actions in any way is

Summary you are
I am
we are



we are
:borg:

Oh we are engaging now?

Fuck off.

*checkspostcount*

Nah. I'm actually, like, kinda active on here.

[dubshow]

Oh we are engaging now?

[dubshow]

Fuck off.

*checkspostcount*

Nah. I'm actually, like, kinda active on here.

[Wocka Wocka]

FFS Brad, nobody knows if we’re doing the exact right. There’s no playbook for this.

But what we’re doing is probably the right thing for most of us.

You’re basically saying without having another idea. Which is nothing more than fucking bitching for the sake of bitching.

And with that groupthink bullshit.

If every person you talk to is an asshole; you’re the asshole.

How is it I keep getting words put into my proverbial mouth when are right there to read in plain sight? What is DFD for if not to do some light bitching among friends and be ? What is the harm about having a discussion about that and how it affects us?

And that's where the groupthink comes in. Apparently it's been decided that the government is doing a fine job and everything will be ok, and to think critically of the consequences / advantages of those actions in any way is

Summary you are
I am
we are



we are
:borg:

Fuck off.

*checkspostcount*

Nah. I'm actually, like, kinda active on here.

You're the worst kind of person. I'll ask again since you didn't answer earlier. Who hurt you?

[Johnny_P]

I'm on a conference call where my COO is saying how he's upset that nothing is flying in/out of Africa. He went on a hunting trip end of last year and apparently killed 9 animals and is upset they will take a while to come over. He'll have to wait to get them to the taxidermist.

[goIftdibrad]

You're the worst kind of person. I'll ask again since you didn't answer earlier. Who hurt you?

and thats based on what? meeting me one time? or something else? I've only been hurt by like, society as a whole man.

also
this wurst


or this worst:


inquiring minds must know.

[Wocka Wocka]

You're the worst kind of person. I'll ask again since you didn't answer earlier. Who hurt you?

and thats based on what? meeting me one time? or something else? I've only been hurt by like, society as a whole man.

also
this wurst


or this worst:


inquiring minds must know.

Yes, to be fair, based on my extremely limited knowledge of you, but I'm confident that what I've seen today is indicative of who you are as person.

Additionally, we've never said anything about not thinking critically about consequences/advantages. However, you haven't offered any solutions better than what we're doing now, sunshine. You just want to bitch about things. Your implication, regardless of your protests, is that we're shutting the economy down too much with social distancing and that we should be saying YOLO and letting the disease ravage the country.

[goIftdibrad]

Yes, to be fair, based on my extremely limited knowledge of you, but I'm confident that what I've seen today is indicative of who you are as person.

Additionally, we've never said anything about not thinking critically about consequences/advantages. However, you haven't offered any solutions better than what we're doing now, sunshine. You just want to bitch about things. Your implication, regardless of your protests, is that we're shutting the economy down too much with social distancing and that we should be saying YOLO and letting the disease ravage the country.

You are just not reading my posts. I suggest to try to with removing some of that bias this time.

anywho, off to finish my work for the day

[Melon]

FFS Brad, nobody knows if we’re doing the exact right. There’s no playbook for this.

But what we’re doing is probably the right thing for most of us.

You’re basically saying without having another idea. Which is nothing more than fucking bitching for the sake of bitching.

And with that groupthink bullshit.

If every person you talk to is an asshole; you’re the asshole.

How is it I keep getting words put into my proverbial mouth when are right there to read in plain sight? What is DFD for if not to do some light bitching among friends and be ? What is the harm about having a discussion about that and how it affects us?

And that's where the groupthink comes in. Apparently it's been decided that the government is doing a fine job and everything will be ok, and to think critically of the consequences / advantages of those actions in any way is

Summary you are
I am
we are



we are
:borg:

Fuck off.

*checkspostcount*

Nah. I'm actually, like, kinda active on here.

You can't look at any idea opposing yours with grace and dignity.

I tried to have a legitimate debate with you, and your ultimate answer is "There's information about deaths and the depression Google it"
That's total bullshit, you can't admit when you're wrong, you just double down and start attacking everyone.
It's truly pathetic.

[Melon]

I don't care what this means for our friendship.
Anytime I try to have a legitimate conversation with you, all you do is shoot my ideas down, and say I'm wrong. No facts, no discussion, and you do it like a total asshole. I have never talked down to you the way you do to me, or do to other people.

Automobiles
Houses
Finances
Jobs

All items I can't talk to you about because you just turn into a giant jackass.

I don't think it's a friendship worth saving if I'm honest.

[dubshow]

welp, there it is.

[dubshow]

I'm on a conference call where my COO is saying how he's upset that nothing is flying in/out of Africa. He went on a hunting trip end of last year and apparently killed 9 animals and is upset they will take a while to come over. He'll have to wait to get them to the taxidermist.

they got bigger issues at hand....

[dubshow]

lotta heat in here. The larger issue of uncertainty can surely boil tensions quickly.

Maybe we should all self isolate?

[goIftdibrad]

You can't look at any idea opposing yours with grace and dignity.

I tried to have a legitimate debate with you, and your ultimate answer is "There's information about deaths and the depression Google it"
That's total bullshit, you can't admit when you're wrong, you just double down and start attacking everyone.
It's truly pathetic.

I'm disappointed you think that, because I'm very open minded.

My answer was a little more nuanced than that, but yes it was not straightforward to find hard hard data on. I'm not trying to be in an oxford debate here. Being poor or in financial dire straits is bad your your health, ergo more people under economic strain (ie being poor) will lead to more health problems, suffering, and death. Quantification of this is not why people seem upset at me, because deep down you know it to be true. This is why none of us live in the seedy parts of town, for example. One is more likely to have negative outcomes just from being around poor people.

And I'm not attacking anyone here. Quite the opposite. I've refrained from cussing and telling others to 'fuck off', for example.



Lets just collectively agree to drop it and talk about something else. Everyone is stressed, things are hard, might be going stir crazy, etc. I never intended to have to write a 20 page research paper defending a brainstorm to a bunch of my friends.

[goIftdibrad]

I don't care what this means for our friendship.
Anytime I try to have a legitimate conversation with you, all you do is shoot my ideas down, and say I'm wrong. No facts, no discussion, and you do it like a total asshole. I have never talked down to you the way you do to me, or do to other people.

Automobiles
Houses
Finances
Jobs

All items I can't talk to you about because you just turn into a giant jackass.

I don't think it's a friendship worth saving if I'm honest.

thats very disappointing.

We talk about all that stuff and I try to challenge your assumptions, think of thing you might not have, etc AS I EXPECT a good friend to do for me. And we would always land on a similar page and I support your decisions.

[Melon]

You can't look at any idea opposing yours with grace and dignity.

I tried to have a legitimate debate with you, and your ultimate answer is "There's information about deaths and the depression Google it"
That's total bullshit, you can't admit when you're wrong, you just double down and start attacking everyone.
It's truly pathetic.

I'm disappointed you think that, because I'm very open minded.

My answer was a little more nuanced than that, but yes it was not straightforward to find hard hard data on. I'm not trying to be in an oxford debate here. Being poor or in financial dire straits is bad your your health, ergo more people under economic strain (ie being poor) will lead to more health problems, suffering, and death. Quantification of this is not why people seem upset at me, because deep down you know it to be true. This is why none of us live in the seedy parts of town, for example. One is more likely to have negative outcomes just from being around poor people.

And I'm not attacking anyone here. Quite the opposite. I've refrained from cussing and telling others to 'fuck off', for example.



Lets just collectively agree to drop it and talk about something else. Everyone is stressed, things are hard, might be going stir crazy, etc. I never intended to have to write a 20 page research paper defending a brainstorm to a bunch of my friends.

Dropped.