It's Not Easy Being (a darker shade of) Green

[max225]

Not really, the 86 has a shit ton of features...
LED head/tail/fog lights
Color/heated mirrors
Auto dimming mirror
Dual zone automatic AC
Smart key
MID display
Leather wheel
Heated seats
7" touchscreen
All that would be cut...

less weight

Those are all "basic" features to customers these days. I don't think we'll be seeing that kind of stuff stripped out soon.

Once the price moves from 32k to 22k... you will. Unless you just lay on the stretch pay over 184 months

[max225]

Everything on my car is a cheap version of that stuff. The HVAC controls look like they're from a 90s boombox, etc.

It's totally possible to make something good from a thoughtful combination of cheap shit.

I guess I just don't agree with the statement that your car is "cheap" it is on the cheaper end for sports cars for sure, but there are lots of costs layered into the car, that while on their own may not be much, but in summation would add up to quite a bit.

[troyguitar]

Everything on my car is a cheap version of that stuff. The HVAC controls look like they're from a 90s boombox, etc.

It's totally possible to make something good from a thoughtful combination of cheap shit.

I guess I just don't agree with the statement that your car is "cheap" it is on the cheaper end for sports cars for sure, but there are lots of costs layered into the car, that while on their own may not be much, but in summation would add up to quite a bit.

The base car is $25k MSRP and includes almost everything. Sure it's not a $15k Mitsubishi but it's pretty cheap for a brand new very capable sports coupe.

[max225]

I guess I just don't agree with the statement that your car is "cheap" it is on the cheaper end for sports cars for sure, but there are lots of costs layered into the car, that while on their own may not be much, but in summation would add up to quite a bit.

The base car is $25k MSRP and includes almost everything. Sure it's not a $15k Mitsubishi but it's pretty cheap for a brand new very capable sports coupe.

No disagreement here

[wap]

And it's only going to get worse post-apocalypse

That’s exactly why I posted a pinto...
gravy days are done for now ...
A lot of us bitched about “lack of sports cars” etc, this is about to get good Bois.

Current cars have a lot of non essential shit that adds cost. Plenty of ways to cut that out.
No more leather
No more power shit
No more moonroofs
Smaller non turbo engines that are old and proven
Cheaper older transmissions
Cheaper thinner plastics inside
Shittier paint
Shittier lights
Smaller and shittier brakes
Smaller and thinner tires
Smaller footprints
Shittier infotainment no more royalties to google or Apple
Simpler dashboards
33k average price ... can be taken down to 20-25 and if the economy goes south that’s where we’re going

I'd be ok with a lot of things on this list.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Those are all "basic" features to customers these days. I don't think we'll be seeing that kind of stuff stripped out soon.

Once the price moves from 32k to 22k... you will. Unless you just lay on the stretch pay over 184 months

It's a delicate balance. There's margin associated with each of those features...removing them has a drop in price but also marketability. Finding the balance of removing content and profitability is tough. Remove too much "critical" content, and no pricing action will be effective.

[max225]

Once the price moves from 32k to 22k... you will. Unless you just lay on the stretch pay over 184 months

It's a delicate balance. There's margin associated with each of those features...removing them has a drop in price but also marketability. Finding the balance of removing content and profitability is tough. Remove too much "critical" content, and no pricing action will be effective.

I think the disconnect in our discussion is purchasing power. Transportation is Vital, none of those features are... so de-contenting makes perfect sense when everyone is going to play the price game within weeks of re-opening.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

It's a delicate balance. There's margin associated with each of those features...removing them has a drop in price but also marketability. Finding the balance of removing content and profitability is tough. Remove too much "critical" content, and no pricing action will be effective.

I think the disconnect in our discussion is purchasing power. Transportation is Vital, none of those features are... so de-contenting makes perfect sense when everyone is going to play the price game within weeks of re-opening.

It'll depend on how deep OEMs go. Making cost cutting product decisions will not happen quickly...they can't. It'll be at least 8-12 mos before cost cutting hits the product. We'll just see some incentives on grounded inventory with limited production as demand is determined. Then if that doesn't sell, more drastic product actions will be implemented.

Nobody really knows what's going to happen, though. This is all so unprecedented.

I do know that what we're talking about is literally my job, and I've been given no direction to look at decontenting my products...yet.

[D Griff]

That’s exactly why I posted a pinto...
gravy days are done for now ...
A lot of us bitched about “lack of sports cars” etc, this is about to get good Bois.

Current cars have a lot of non essential shit that adds cost. Plenty of ways to cut that out.
No more leather
No more power shit
No more moonroofs
Smaller non turbo engines that are old and proven
Cheaper older transmissions
Cheaper thinner plastics inside
Shittier paint
Shittier lights
Smaller and shittier brakes
Smaller and thinner tires
Smaller footprints
Shittier infotainment no more royalties to google or Apple
Simpler dashboards
33k average price ... can be taken down to 20-25 and if the economy goes south that’s where we’re going

I'd be ok with a lot of things on this list.

Me too mah

But we are weirdos.

I mean, I chose my Beemah specifically because it lacked modern features like touch screens, sun roof, automatic trans, etc. I prefer driving my '03 shit box.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I'd be ok with a lot of things on this list.

Me too mah

But we are weirdos.

I mean, I chose my Beemah specifically because it lacked modern features like touch screens, sun roof, automatic trans, etc. I prefer driving my '03 shit box.

I love mah Jeep truck in part due to its lack of features. No safety BS, a small touchscreen that's good enough to get the job done, I'd actually like the manual if it was geared better.

[max225]

Me too mah

But we are weirdos.

I mean, I chose my Beemah specifically because it lacked modern features like touch screens, sun roof, automatic trans, etc. I prefer driving my '03 shit box.

I love mah Jeep truck in part due to its lack of features. No safety BS, a small touchscreen that's good enough to get the job done, I'd actually like the manual if it was geared better.

What’s a touch screen?

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I love mah Jeep truck in part due to its lack of features. No safety BS, a small touchscreen that's good enough to get the job done, I'd actually like the manual if it was geared better.

What’s a touch screen?

I'm a and like Android auto.

[Desertbreh]

And it's only going to get worse post-apocalypse

That’s exactly why I posted a pinto...
gravy days are done for now ...
A lot of us bitched about “lack of sports cars” etc, this is about to get good Bois.

Current cars have a lot of non essential shit that adds cost. Plenty of ways to cut that out.
No more leather
No more power shit
No more moonroofs
Smaller non turbo engines that are old and proven
Cheaper older transmissions
Cheaper thinner plastics inside
Shittier paint
Shittier lights
Smaller and shittier brakes
Smaller and thinner tires
Smaller footprints
Shittier infotainment no more royalties to google or Apple
Simpler dashboards
33k average price ... can be taken down to 20-25 and if the economy goes south that’s where we’re going

Cool. Does this mean Porsche will start remanufacturing the 944 Turbo as an economy car? I will take mine in Guards Red with Phone Dial RAMZ. KThanksbra.

[max225]

That’s exactly why I posted a pinto...
gravy days are done for now ...
A lot of us bitched about “lack of sports cars” etc, this is about to get good Bois.

Current cars have a lot of non essential shit that adds cost. Plenty of ways to cut that out.
No more leather
No more power shit
No more moonroofs
Smaller non turbo engines that are old and proven
Cheaper older transmissions
Cheaper thinner plastics inside
Shittier paint
Shittier lights
Smaller and shittier brakes
Smaller and thinner tires
Smaller footprints
Shittier infotainment no more royalties to google or Apple
Simpler dashboards
33k average price ... can be taken down to 20-25 and if the economy goes south that’s where we’re going

Cool. Does this mean Porsche will start remanufacturing the 944 Turbo as an economy car? I will take mine in Guards Red with Phone Dial RAMZ. KThanksbra.

Have you seen the 914?

[Desertbreh]

Cool. Does this mean Porsche will start remanufacturing the 944 Turbo as an economy car? I will take mine in Guards Red with Phone Dial RAMZ. KThanksbra.

Have you seen the 914?

[troyguitar]

Fun Facts, FRZ86 Edition. Which car am I comparing the 86 to? Both cars have:

~200 hp at ~7000 RPM
27xx lb RWD + LSD
Near identical gear ratios, 2nd gear especially is 2.19 vs 2.20
53/47% weight distribution
101" wheelbase
7" wide wheels
Cheapo McStrut front suspension

[max225]

Fun Facts, FRZ86 Edition. Which car am I comparing the 86 to? Both cars have:

~200 hp at ~7000 RPM
27xx lb RWD + LSD
Near identical gear ratios, 2nd gear especially is 2.19 vs 2.20
53/47% weight distribution
101" wheelbase
7" wide wheels
Cheapo McStrut front suspension

944s with the M44 ? but wheel base doesn't match

[max225]

240sx ? also had near identical specs...

[troyguitar]

One is considered a slow POS, and the other is considered to be one of the best cars ever made.

[troyguitar]

240sx ? also had near identical specs...

Only 150 hp on those.

[max225]

OH DUH.. E30 M3

[max225]

The hype around the E30 is nearly second to nothing... outside of perhaps Air-cooled 993 turbos and TT supras .

[troyguitar]

The hype around the E30 is nearly second to nothing... outside of perhaps Air-cooled 993 turbos and TT supras .

Yep. All I can figure is that most people, including those who own them, have never driven one. Drive an 86 and you're getting as close to that experience as you can get - and you probably won't want to buy one at $30k let alone $200k or whatever the hell the roundels go for... They do look awesome

[max225]

The hype around the E30 is nearly second to nothing... outside of perhaps Air-cooled 993 turbos and TT supras .

Yep. All I can figure is that most people, including those who own them, have never driven one. Drive an 86 and you're getting as close to that experience as you can get - and you probably won't want to buy one at $30k let alone $200k or whatever the hell the roundels go for...

There is a lot to be said about newer vehicles that can't be easily captured in forum bro jerk off fests online.

I am willing to bet that the 86 is better in every single way.... every one
No rattles
Far more reliable
same speed/handling
Better mpg
better interior
more features



where is it worse ?
racing pedigree and history... but for a street car. 86s are also far better selling than any E30 m3 ever were. 18k total made... that's like annual 86 production isn't it?

[max225]

Do you remember my rant about the 370z and how it was better than my E46 M3... rev's just as high far more reliable, handles just as good etc etc. But INLINE 6 BRO... but 10w60 oil bro!!

Same exact comparison if you ask me... minus the whole back seat thing which frankly doesn't matter for most looking for a sports car, and then there is the G37