I’ve armchair quarterbacked my way through 2 days of Supra training at Toyota’s NY HQ, 2 days of hands on service instruction, and then spent over $40k of my company’s money on specialty equipment to build a service bay for one at my dealership, as service manager of the highest volume Toyota service department in NJ.max225 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:39 amPlease also provide backup for this...fledonfoot wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:18 pm
Sheet metal, steering (for the worse... the BMW steering feels more direct), suspension (the Supra is a super neutrally balanced car), diff and trans tuning, and several hundred million dollars to fund the development. BMW can thank Toyota for the Z4.
I’ve driven both. They may be the same chassis but they have two different personalities and are two distinctly different cars... The difference between Z4 and Supra is far greater than the difference between BRZ and 86.
Is the 86 pathetic because it’s a Toyota tuned Subaru? The differences between those cars are much harder to spot than the Z4/Supra.
This is what I hate about armchair car enthusiasts. Toyota were damned either way with this thing... at Least they’ve brought a niche car to the market for the people that could afford it. It may not be fantastic but it’s a really, very good car for $50k. I hate to break it to you... the Mk4 Supra isn’t anything to write home about either.
Here is an article
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos ... are-bmw-z4
Everything is BMW. There is perhaps only one unique part and that's it .
Even the wheels have the same offsets and the Z4 and supra have the same track. I am what point you're trying to make other than Arm chair quarterbacking yourself.Overall, the front suspension on the Supra appears to be a mix of Z4 3.0i and M40i components with the lower control arm being the only unique part that impacts the chassis configuration.
I have made one statement ... Supra=Z4. And that's why it sucks, this has nothing to do with the fact that it is fun to drive or whatever. I hate badge engineering, if this isn't it I don't know what it is. I am firmly standing by that statement.
It appears that I’m taking your comment that the Supra is the same as a Z4 a bit too literally then. I’m saying there are actual mechanical and software differences between the two that affect their character and the way they drive, which your article clearly states. Unfortunately I’m not allowed to share any of the training materials I’ve received outside of a Supra qualified employee at my store.
After all of this, at a dealership that sells 160-180 cars a month, we’ve sold 5 cars since July, while Toyota sold ~2900 nationwide. This is where my AQ comment came in and wasn’t directly aimed at you. Specialty cars have a specialty market, cost a fortune to develop and certify for multiple markets. They bring this car to market, and get slammed for it. They don’t bring it to market... and get slammed for it.