Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!

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fledonfoot
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max225 wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:48 pm
fledonfoot wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:27 pm

I remember when you could tag people in threads here.

I am now Service Mangler at the #9 (of 113) ranked Toyota dealer in the NY region, and #1 in the district. It’s an $80-90k job depending on shop production... a service director job is $100+. I have 14 writers that work for me, and make 55-95k in the main shop, and 30-40k on the basic maintenance side.

It’s all sales. It’s all commission. Sell service. Make money. I’m advising you that your car needs things to make me money.

A good service writer knows The delicate balance between what it needs now vs what can wait a bit.

Instead of clubbing every person over the head, I’d rather take a little bit at a time... soft sell everything and prioritize safety over everything.
Curious what does a Camry need at 30k miles and at 90k miles? Do you go off the :manuel: ?
Rotate every 5k. Oil every 10. “Major” service interval is every 30.

Major is: Oil/filter change, tire rotation, engine air and cabin air filters. Toyota wants this offered in the $195-240 range depending on market.

Spark plugs on a 4 cyl are $170 (about $20 per plug plus labor) and due at 120k. Near $500 for a V6 thanks to the transverse layout and the rear bank against the firewall. Trans fluid and coolant are “lifetime” with no set interval. No set brake fluid interval but recommended upon inspection.

Cost of ownership is cheap. Toyota covers the first 25k at no charge. You can drive one of these things to 100k and spend less than $2k including all the scheduled maintenance, two front brake jobs, one rear brake job, a set of tires and alignment. On a hybrid, you’re around $1k because the brakes last forever.
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max225 wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:14 pm
D Griff wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:26 pm

:wat:

Subway is like $10 anymore as well.
Unless you go for the :jalepenis: daily special for 4.99 that comes with 2 slices of paper thin “turkey” paper and freeze dried vegetables on a piece of bread that looks stepped on
Yeah, Subway is not good :disgust:

I actually like Chipotle :iono: I will only eat Subway under desperate measures.
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Nothing wrong with a meatball sub. :iono:
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fledonfoot wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:08 am
max225 wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:48 pm

Curious what does a Camry need at 30k miles and at 90k miles? Do you go off the :manuel: ?
Rotate every 5k. Oil every 10. “Major” service interval is every 30.

Major is: Oil/filter change, tire rotation, engine air and cabin air filters. Toyota wants this offered in the $195-240 range depending on market.

Spark plugs on a 4 cyl are $170 (about $20 per plug plus labor) and due at 120k. Near $500 for a V6 thanks to the transverse layout and the rear bank against the firewall. Trans fluid and coolant are “lifetime” with no set interval. No set brake fluid interval but recommended upon inspection.

Cost of ownership is cheap. Toyota covers the first 25k at no charge. You can drive one of these things to 100k and spend less than $2k including all the scheduled maintenance, two front brake jobs, one rear brake job, a set of tires and alignment. On a hybrid, you’re around $1k because the brakes last forever.
These are quite reasonable, how do the service advisers/dealerships make money off a 195/240 major service... seems rather cheap, the cost of parts and overhead would be that... -_-
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So, I got backed into a few days ago by a young woman.

Image

Anyone have a good educated guess on what the body work/ will cost?

I am thinking of trying to work it out with the body shop that they apply the bulk of insurance payment to other work that I need more than the repair.

It looks like that dent can be pulled out and the panel snapped back into place fairly easily.

Have any of you ever done something like that? Does the insurance company care how the money is applied?
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Irish wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:01 pm So, I got backed into a few days ago by a young woman.

Image

Anyone have a good educated guess on what the body work/ will cost?

I am thinking of trying to work it out with the body shop that they apply the bulk of insurance payment to other work that I need more than the repair.

It looks like that dent can be pulled out and the panel snapped back into place fairly easily.

Have any of you ever done something like that? Does the insurance company care how the money is applied?
$750 for a new bumper cover/paint. Or you can get your own... Usually you can get the others party insurance to cut you a check, and you do with it as you please.
If the lower tabs are broken or cracked add another $300.
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max225 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:22 am
fledonfoot wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:08 am

Rotate every 5k. Oil every 10. “Major” service interval is every 30.

Major is: Oil/filter change, tire rotation, engine air and cabin air filters. Toyota wants this offered in the $195-240 range depending on market.

Spark plugs on a 4 cyl are $170 (about $20 per plug plus labor) and due at 120k. Near $500 for a V6 thanks to the transverse layout and the rear bank against the firewall. Trans fluid and coolant are “lifetime” with no set interval. No set brake fluid interval but recommended upon inspection.

Cost of ownership is cheap. Toyota covers the first 25k at no charge. You can drive one of these things to 100k and spend less than $2k including all the scheduled maintenance, two front brake jobs, one rear brake job, a set of tires and alignment. On a hybrid, you’re around $1k because the brakes last forever.
These are quite reasonable, how do the service advisers/dealerships make money off a 195/240 major service... seems rather cheap, the cost of parts and overhead would be that... -_-
I pay my advisors $400/week to show up, and 7% of the gross on customer pay and warranty sales (total sale minus part cost, labor cost, and discount offered) and GP is around 70-74% at most mass market stores like mine. I service 130-150 cars a day.

It’s all made in volume, and quality up sells from legitimate needed repairs.

To take it a step further... most stores are doing ok if it costs them 95¢ to make $1, by the time every single bit of overhead is paid. The best service depts get that close to 90¢.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:30 am
max225 wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:14 pm

Unless you go for the :jalepenis: daily special for 4.99 that comes with 2 slices of paper thin “turkey” paper and freeze dried vegetables on a piece of bread that looks stepped on
Yeah, Subway is not good :disgust:

I actually like Chipotle :iono: I will only eat Subway under desperate measures.
All of my last 5 subway meals are at this one place in the :manuel: part of Arlington for the past 2 years, because it's the only place that's open around 3-5 AM after shows and the like on the way home cause I was starving. Good times :lolol:

I also started to like chipotle now that they're serving carne asada
Nephew of a :plac: a few first gen immigrant on DFD, resident turk, and ex nazi egg lover now driving a middle class mom mobile.
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I am kind of off put by this claw back technique of Tesla in the used car realm...

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/y3mb ... hey-expect

Second owners can expect to repay for anything from auto pilot to the performance options like P90D features. So if a buyer purchases these features with their car they can only resell it as a base model. Fuck that, Tesla screws the original buyer and the new buyer. The article shows us that the features can be hacked but seriously??!?

Honestly no thanks.
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Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:22 am I am kind of off put by this claw back technique of Tesla in the used car realm...

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/y3mb ... hey-expect

Second owners can expect to repay for anything from auto pilot to the performance options like P90D features. So if a buyer purchases these features with their car they can only resell it as a base model. Fuck that, Tesla screws the original buyer and the new buyer. The article shows us that the features can be hacked but seriously??!?

Honestly no thanks.
Well... a tech company will operate like a tech company. Hopefully the actual CAR companies don't follow suit. I'm with you 100%, that is :disgust: Thousands in options that literally depreciate to zero instantaneously.

I imagine tech in cars will most to some sort of :bs: subscription base deal someday :gag:
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D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:53 am
Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:22 am I am kind of off put by this claw back technique of Tesla in the used car realm...

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/y3mb ... hey-expect

Second owners can expect to repay for anything from auto pilot to the performance options like P90D features. So if a buyer purchases these features with their car they can only resell it as a base model. Fuck that, Tesla screws the original buyer and the new buyer. The article shows us that the features can be hacked but seriously??!?

Honestly no thanks.
Well... a tech company will operate like a tech company. Hopefully the actual CAR companies don't follow suit. I'm with you 100%, that is :disgust: Thousands in options that literally depreciate to zero instantaneously.

I imagine tech in cars will most to some sort of :bs: subscription base deal someday :gag:
That business model doesn't work for me, you turn a fully loaded car or phone or computer into a base model once it is resold and it will only ever be worth the base model. That's :bs:
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Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:22 am I am kind of off put by this claw back technique of Tesla in the used car realm...

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/y3mb ... hey-expect

Second owners can expect to repay for anything from auto pilot to the performance options like P90D features. So if a buyer purchases these features with their car they can only resell it as a base model. Fuck that, Tesla screws the original buyer and the new buyer. The article shows us that the features can be hacked but seriously??!?

Honestly no thanks.
I don't know why this making such big news. I think there is a lot of "model variation" within the tesla lineup that has been continuously changed. I am thinking is more of an issue of tesla removing features to maintain some sort of safety regulation as opposed to a money grab. They obviously know that the customers will bitch and moan about missing features.

Those people hacking teslas is probably one of the main reasons they doing that sort of thing as well. You get an inferior hardware setup and some genius hacker "enables" some extra functionality that Tesla didn't deem safe... proceeds to get wasted at a local bar and have auto pilot run him into a lake, and then sues Tesla for negligence. Countless examples of that sort shit going on out here.
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max225 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:39 am
Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:22 am I am kind of off put by this claw back technique of Tesla in the used car realm...

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/y3mb ... hey-expect

Second owners can expect to repay for anything from auto pilot to the performance options like P90D features. So if a buyer purchases these features with their car they can only resell it as a base model. Fuck that, Tesla screws the original buyer and the new buyer. The article shows us that the features can be hacked but seriously??!?

Honestly no thanks.
I don't know why this making such big news. I think there is a lot of "model variation" within the tesla lineup that has been continuously changed. I am thinking is more of an issue of tesla removing features to maintain some sort of safety regulation as opposed to a money grab. They obviously know that the customers will bitch and moan about missing features.

Those people hacking teslas is probably one of the main reasons they doing that sort of thing as well. You get an inferior hardware setup and some genius hacker "enables" some extra functionality that Tesla didn't deem safe... proceeds to get wasted at a local bar and have auto pilot run him into a lake, and then sues Tesla for negligence. Countless examples of that sort shit going on out here.
Good point, but then they resell the feature to the tune of $8k. Like if you already bought and enabled the option on your personal car you should be able to advertise it on crangslist and sell it to the next person to recoup some of your costs. It is not fair for you as a consumer or the next buyer to lose the feature.
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Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:43 am
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:39 am

I don't know why this making such big news. I think there is a lot of "model variation" within the tesla lineup that has been continuously changed. I am thinking is more of an issue of tesla removing features to maintain some sort of safety regulation as opposed to a money grab. They obviously know that the customers will bitch and moan about missing features.

Those people hacking teslas is probably one of the main reasons they doing that sort of thing as well. You get an inferior hardware setup and some genius hacker "enables" some extra functionality that Tesla didn't deem safe... proceeds to get wasted at a local bar and have auto pilot run him into a lake, and then sues Tesla for negligence. Countless examples of that sort shit going on out here.
Good point, but then they resell the feature to the tune of $8k. Like if you already bought and enabled the option on your personal car you should be able to advertise it on crangslist and sell it to the next person to recoup some of your costs. It is not fair for you as a consumer or the next buyer to lose the feature.
I completely agree, but I think that is some sort of one off thing as opposed to a corp money grab, I just don't think we're getting the full story here. Overall Tesla doesn't strike me as a company that would sign up for that sort of common business practice as their customers would burn them to the ground immediately.

Just to add to my prior point the model 3 went through at least 3 + hardware upgrades, so you will have some models that are not autopilot capable and some that are, and to the customer they are all "model 3"s with hackers running amok... Scary shit if you ask me.

There are some "dealers" popping up that are selling salvaged Teslas also... to the poors that can't afford new... it is sort of scary because some are essentially epic hackjobs.

I think it is best to just suck it up and buy tesla new, they are too expensive and shitty used anyways. I wouldn't trust a pre 2019 tesla anyways as their QA was garbage compared to all the learnings they had now. Can't afford it? Plenty of other options, I just wouldn't want a 5+ year old tesla period. But that's a separate story all together.
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max225 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:49 am
Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:43 am

Good point, but then they resell the feature to the tune of $8k. Like if you already bought and enabled the option on your personal car you should be able to advertise it on crangslist and sell it to the next person to recoup some of your costs. It is not fair for you as a consumer or the next buyer to lose the feature.
I completely agree, but I think that is some sort of one off thing as opposed to a corp money grab, I just don't think we're getting the full story here. Overall Tesla doesn't strike me as a company that would sign up for that sort of common business practice as their customers would burn them to the ground immediately.

Just to add to my prior point the model 3 went through at least 3 + hardware upgrades, so you will have some models that are not autopilot capable and some that are, and to the customer they are all "model 3"s with hackers running amok... Scary shit if you ask me.

There are some "dealers" popping up that are selling salvaged Teslas also... to the poors that can't afford new... it is sort of scary because some are essentially epic hackjobs.

I think it is best to just suck it up and buy tesla new, they are too expensive and shitty used anyways. I wouldn't trust a pre 2019 tesla anyways as their QA was garbage compared to all the learnings they had now. Can't afford it? Plenty of other options, I just wouldn't want a 5+ year old tesla period. But that's a separate story all together.
I get disabling a feature that was never purchased, but that's not what this article (or the one before it) are illustrating, the owners of their cars are saying that Tesla is wiping out features that come with the car. That's theft, go get your car serviced and they take away the bluetooth module, sorry man but you didn't buy that feature, only the first owner can use bluetooth, however if you really want it you can pay us and we will put it back in. That's what I'm reading.

Enabling features that hardware doesn't support like autopilot with inadequate hardware is :fullretard: , in that case Tesla could choose to warn the customer that warranty is off and no updates will be available or update and reflash original settings with the next update, that is a different thing altogether.
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Tesla is pigeonholing themselves as a one owner product. Used is too expensive and not worth owning... they need to figure this out.
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Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:04 am Tesla is pigeonholing themselves as a one owner product. Used is too expensive and not worth owning... they need to figure this out.
Well, that is really the demographic they target - people who want their cars to be an extension of their cell phone. People are more than happy to pay $1K for an iPhone and then stick it in a closet to collect dust 18 months later after buying another one for $1K. I think there are plenty of people who are willing to pay $50K for a model 3 and run for five years before scrapping it for $10K and moving onto the next. The depreciation cost is honestly similar in any other luxury sedan. A $70K high end BMW/Merc/Audi sedan is worth $10K 5-7 years later.
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Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:04 am Tesla is pigeonholing themselves as a one owner product. Used is too expensive and not worth owning... they need to figure this out.
Just like Apple... And they are doing just fine. No one cares about owner 2/3+ unless you CPO. At which point Tesla will be within the Tesla ecosystem. It seems that there were 3rd parties involved here.
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D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:42 am
Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:04 am Tesla is pigeonholing themselves as a one owner product. Used is too expensive and not worth owning... they need to figure this out.
Well, that is really the demographic they target - people who want their cars to be an extension of their cell phone. People are more than happy to pay $1K for an iPhone and then stick it in a closet to collect dust 18 months later after buying another one for $1K. I think there are plenty of people who are willing to pay $50K for a model 3 and run for five years before scrapping it for $10K and moving onto the next. The depreciation cost is honestly similar in any other luxury sedan. A $70K high end BMW/Merc/Audi sedan is worth $10K 5-7 years later.
It's actually far better. There are no sub 40k model 3's available for sale... Plenty of 2017/18 3 series for 25-30k.

Tesla is actually the lowest depreciating luxury brand (aside from poorshe 2 door cars).
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max225 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:56 am
D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:42 am

Well, that is really the demographic they target - people who want their cars to be an extension of their cell phone. People are more than happy to pay $1K for an iPhone and then stick it in a closet to collect dust 18 months later after buying another one for $1K. I think there are plenty of people who are willing to pay $50K for a model 3 and run for five years before scrapping it for $10K and moving onto the next. The depreciation cost is honestly similar in any other luxury sedan. A $70K high end BMW/Merc/Audi sedan is worth $10K 5-7 years later.
It's actually far better. There are no sub 40k model 3's available for sale... Plenty of 2017/18 3 series for 25-30k.

Tesla is actually the lowest depreciating luxury brand (aside from poorshe 2 door cars).
:notwrong: but I wonder if that will change over time as people start to realize some of the stuff Mario is pointing out. Right now hype keep the prices elevated + anything "interesting" used is :waxer:
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D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:06 am
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:56 am

It's actually far better. There are no sub 40k model 3's available for sale... Plenty of 2017/18 3 series for 25-30k.

Tesla is actually the lowest depreciating luxury brand (aside from poorshe 2 door cars).
:notwrong: but I wonder if that will change over time as people start to realize some of the stuff Mario is pointing out. Right now hype keep the prices elevated + anything "interesting" used is :waxer:
Tesla has been out for 10 years now... no end in sight...

The used market is just :fullretard: in general.
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max225 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:55 am
Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:04 am Tesla is pigeonholing themselves as a one owner product. Used is too expensive and not worth owning... they need to figure this out.
Just like Apple... And they are doing just fine. No one cares about owner 2/3+ unless you CPO. At which point Tesla will be within the Tesla ecosystem. It seems that there were 3rd parties involved here.
:amazing: the things I value and how far off of mainstream ideals I am. Categorize me with the :poors: I guess.
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D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:06 am
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:56 am

It's actually far better. There are no sub 40k model 3's available for sale... Plenty of 2017/18 3 series for 25-30k.

Tesla is actually the lowest depreciating luxury brand (aside from poorshe 2 door cars).
:notwrong: but I wonder if that will change over time as people start to realize some of the stuff Mario is pointing out. Right now hype keep the prices elevated + anything "interesting" used is :waxer:
It's making headlines so I'm sure there are potentially interested used car shoppers. If the batteries were cheap to replace, a used 20k model 3 seems somewhat :notwrong: , a P90D would be cool too but all the secondary buyer gets is badge and no extra go.
Last edited by Tar on Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:22 am
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:55 am

Just like Apple... And they are doing just fine. No one cares about owner 2/3+ unless you CPO. At which point Tesla will be within the Tesla ecosystem. It seems that there were 3rd parties involved here.
:amazing: the things I value and how far off of mainstream ideals I am. Categorize me with the :poors: I guess.
Well I mean... I totally get where you're coming from but I don't think you're the target demographic for a tesla. It's a rich man's game... as honestly any vehicle above 50k is. Out here which is the worlds #1 tesla market, the people that have em usually have around 300-500k household incomes... I don't think they care about going used.

And this is foot in mouth for me... I sold their stock at $350 because i stopped believing so I was obviously :wrong: myself.
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Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:24 am
D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:06 am

:notwrong: but I wonder if that will change over time as people start to realize some of the stuff Mario is pointing out. Right now hype keep the prices elevated + anything "interesting" used is :waxer:
It's making headlines so I'm sure there are potentially interested used car shoppers. If the batteries were cheap to replace, a used 20k model 3 seems someone :notwrong: , a P90D would be cool too but all the secondary buyer gets is badge and no extra go.
Batteries seem to last quite some time in a tesla. But the first gen screens and CPUs are laggy and crapping out, door handles keep failing, engine units keep failing etc... Sort of :disgust: the early tesla models have a near 100% replacement rate for those items in (2012>2014) model years.

No one really knows what the new ones will deliver to their owners. But overall the cost of ownership seems in line/lower than comparable gasoline cars. Even when you factor in all these "out of warranty" repairs post warranty you're still coming out far ahead of a BMW 7 series or S class buyer... i.e Whoever cross shopped the model S with them at the time.
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