Car Talk 4: The Richard Hertz Rent-A-Car 500

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max225
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:08 pm So, cars?

I emailed the Cygnus Performance guy. Here's what he came back with:
Thanks for contacting us. This is our main specialty. Your description of how shock valving needs to change is correct, but I would specify that high-speed compression needs to be softer. Low speed compression should be fairly stiff since you care about handling. I have a couple different options that will fix the ride quality issues. You would have to go to a height adjustable coilover. I have direct experience with every fixed perch option, and none of them are going to ride the way you want them to. A high-quality, digressive shock with rebound adjustment and fairly soft springs will solve the issue with ride quality and significantly improve handling at the same time.

Most affordable coilover options would make the problem worse and would also force you to lower the car. If you want something in the $1,300 through $2,000 price range Fortune Auto or our private label version is really the only thing that's going to do what you want. You'd need a couple of options that are not standard or available through other dealers. One of them is extended shock lengths which will allow you to stay at stock ride height or go even higher. The other is the ability to run rubber top hats rather than a pillowball camber plate which is going to be critical. Switching to a pillowball would add nvh on Philadelphia roads. Aside from that it would be important to get comfort specific valving and softer spring rates.

The other option that would work well is AST. We would also have to go with a couple of custom options on those. I would have to spec the spring length to work well at the ride height you are shooting for, and we would have to again go with softer rates and custom valving. AST is a nice option, but you are going to be just under $3,000 with something like that. It's a significant jump in price for product that only rides slightly better.

Those are really the only two options that I would recommend. We sell dozens of coilover and shock brands, but the fact that you are not looking to lower the car eliminates most of them right off the bat. The fact that improving ride quality is the main goal here eliminates the rest of them aside from these two options. I will get you the best deal on anything you like, but I would go with one of these two options in your shoes. I can get you the absolute best price, quickest lead time, a lifetime of included tech support and all of the custom options you are going to need to get the results you are looking for. Just let me know if you have any questions or if you would like an exact quote.
TL;DR version:
-Forum bros are full of shit, coilovers will make the car ride worse in most cases.
-For a better ride at stock height you'll need custom valving and sprangz.
-$1300-2k for his knock off Fortune Auto parts
-$3k for AST

And those are the only 2 that would accomplish what I want, because he would get custom stuff done to the order to get the ride I want.
You knew dis... :impressive: that someone took the time to write all that up without a sale... they must be bored.
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Johnny_P
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max225 wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:12 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:08 pm So, cars?

I emailed the Cygnus Performance guy. Here's what he came back with:



TL;DR version:
-Forum bros are full of shit, coilovers will make the car ride worse in most cases.
-For a better ride at stock height you'll need custom valving and sprangz.
-$1300-2k for his knock off Fortune Auto parts
-$3k for AST

And those are the only 2 that would accomplish what I want, because he would get custom stuff done to the order to get the ride I want.
You knew dis... :Impressive that someone took the time to write all that up without a sale... they must be bored.
Followed up asking how these :unicorn: special order $2k magic shocks handle northeast winters and salt / spray. :popcorn:
Meanwhile a stock impreza rides and handles pretty great so IDK what the issue here is other than forumbro thou must payeth the most tuner bs.
Last edited by Johnny_P on Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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max225
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:12 pm
troyguitar wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:07 pm At 72 mph in the flat my MKZ also gets 27-28 mpg. 3800 lb AWD thing with ancient 3.5 V6 and slushomatic. Not surprising the HEMI does about the same with the better transmission.
Mine gets 24 in those conditions :thisisfine:
I am honestly shocked it is that high. I am sure if I was to drive it here in cali on our midgrade I wouldn't leave the teens.
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max225 wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:16 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:12 pm

Mine gets 24 in those conditions :thisisfine:
I am honestly shocked it is that high. I am sure if I was to drive it here in cali on our midgrade I wouldn't leave the teens.
Buy it and find out. I know a guy selling one :hubba:
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max225
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Honestly the only way to "Fix" your ride is to probably throw some base impreza shocks/springs on there and run 17" wheels. If you're willing to take that compromise..
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:17 pm
max225 wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:16 pm

I am honestly shocked it is that high. I am sure if I was to drive it here in cali on our midgrade I wouldn't leave the teens.
Buy it and find out. I know a guy selling one :hubba:
I already :troywax: 'ed all my money on a clowncar that will be worth 3k in 2 years... :thisisfine:
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max225 wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:12 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:08 pm So, cars?

I emailed the Cygnus Performance guy. Here's what he came back with:



TL;DR version:
-Forum bros are full of shit, coilovers will make the car ride worse in most cases.
-For a better ride at stock height you'll need custom valving and sprangz.
-$1300-2k for his knock off Fortune Auto parts
-$3k for AST

And those are the only 2 that would accomplish what I want, because he would get custom stuff done to the order to get the ride I want.
You knew dis... :impressive: that someone took the time to write all that up without a sale... they must be bored.
Seriously. That's outstanding customer service. 5/7 would spend money with that guy.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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max225 wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:17 pm Honestly the only way to "Fix" your ride is to probably throw some base impreza shocks/springs on there and run 17" wheels. If you're willing to take that compromise..
Even that wouldn't work well because my car is heavier. I actually don't think the shocks would swap in because the new impreza is on a new chassis, wrx is the old chassis.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:18 pm
max225 wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:12 pm
You knew dis... :impressive: that someone took the time to write all that up without a sale... they must be bored.
Seriously. That's outstanding customer service. 5/7 would spend money with that guy.
I appreciate the honesty. I'd buy from him, seems he's not hiding anything.

Wonder if he can sell me a paddle shift automatic :hubba: I'm serious if the new rex has a decent auto to compete with the GTI/R I'd consider one.
Last edited by Johnny_P on Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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max225 wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:17 pm Honestly the only way to "Fix" your ride is to probably throw some base impreza shocks/springs on there and run 17" wheels. If you're willing to take that compromise..
This is what I was thinking. Probably wouldn't be that expensive to try. :iono:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:20 pm
max225 wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:17 pm Honestly the only way to "Fix" your ride is to probably throw some base impreza shocks/springs on there and run 17" wheels. If you're willing to take that compromise..
This is what I was thinking. Probably wouldn't be that expensive to try. :iono:
$700 in parts plus what $1k in labor and a $150 alignment :thisisfine: :troywax:
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max225 wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:12 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:08 pm So, cars?

I emailed the Cygnus Performance guy. Here's what he came back with:



TL;DR version:
-Forum bros are full of shit, coilovers will make the car ride worse in most cases.
-For a better ride at stock height you'll need custom valving and sprangz.
-$1300-2k for his knock off Fortune Auto parts
-$3k for AST

And those are the only 2 that would accomplish what I want, because he would get custom stuff done to the order to get the ride I want.
You knew dis... :impressive: that someone took the time to write all that up without a sale... they must be bored.
:dat:

you owe that bro a beer... But we all said this.
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:24 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:20 pm
This is what I was thinking. Probably wouldn't be that expensive to try. :iono:
$700 in parts plus what $1k in labor and a $150 alignment :thisisfine: :troywax:
BUT WAT SHOULD HE DO
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:18 pm
max225 wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:17 pm Honestly the only way to "Fix" your ride is to probably throw some base impreza shocks/springs on there and run 17" wheels. If you're willing to take that compromise..
Even that wouldn't work well because my car is heavier. I actually don't think the shocks would swap in because the new impreza is on a new chassis, wrx is the old chassis.
I am aware. What about the older gen then... can't be that hard to find a set of shocks and springs and get yelled at by bums swapping it under a bridge.

There are some "rally" mods for these cars as well I am pretty sure they raise/soften up the car also. A base WRX suspension should also be a bit softer... I think base WRX+-1" wheels would be quite :notbad: and keep the car OEM.
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:24 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:20 pm
This is what I was thinking. Probably wouldn't be that expensive to try. :iono:
$700 in parts plus what $1k in labor and a $150 alignment :thisisfine: :troywax:
Right. Better to just off it and get the right vehicle from the factory.

That's the moral of the story.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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You want super digressive shocks valved for stock-ish spring rates and sized for stock ride height. It's not magic, it's just rare that anyone asks for that.

There's a bit of tuner :bs: going on in that he's claiming it's impossible to get something that would work with stock springs - you can, but it will also have to be custom ordered and valved and will cost just as much as the coilovers. There are a number of folks who are great with Bilsteins and could set you up with some custom valving in a set of B6's - it'll probably also end up costing around $1500.

They start with off-the-shelf B6's and rebuild them with whatever pistons and shim stacks are needed to get the desired effect, and the good ones will dyno the shocks to prove it.
Last edited by troyguitar on Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:27 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:24 pm

$700 in parts plus what $1k in labor and a $150 alignment :thisisfine: :troywax:
Right. Better to just off it and get the right vehicle from the factory.

That's the moral of the story.
Yep. Why spend $2000 making a good thing great when you can spend $15000 getting another good thing that's not great?
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troyguitar wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:28 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:27 pm
Right. Better to just off it and get the right vehicle from the factory.

That's the moral of the story.
Yep. Why spend $2000 making a good thing great when you can spend $15000 getting another good thing that's not great?
Exactly!

:troywax:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:27 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:24 pm

$700 in parts plus what $1k in labor and a $150 alignment :thisisfine: :troywax:
Right. Better to just off it and get the right vehicle from the factory.

That's the moral of the story.
:lolol:

:crang:
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-Subaru-WR ... SwjrNdTJLL

Seems like something like that + 17" wheels will do the trick. It is a risk it will still be "rough" but it will for sure ride way better than now.
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troyguitar wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:28 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:27 pm
Right. Better to just off it and get the right vehicle from the factory.

That's the moral of the story.
Yep. Why spend $2000 making a good thing great when you can spend $15000 getting another good thing that's not great?
An automatic would be pretty great.
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max225 wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:31 pm https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-Subaru-WR ... SwjrNdTJLL

Seems like something like that + 17" wheels will do the trick. It is a risk it will still be "rough" but it will for sure ride way better than now.
You want the WRX premium or limited suspension, not the base.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:29 pm
troyguitar wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:28 pm

Yep. Why spend $2000 making a good thing great when you can spend $15000 getting another good thing that's not great?
Exactly!

:troywax:
Please, tell me how $2k of shocks fixes my transmission that doesn't seem to shift on its own.
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dubshow wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:24 pm
max225 wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:12 pm
You knew dis... :impressive: that someone took the time to write all that up without a sale... they must be bored.
:dat:

you owe that bro a beer... But we all said this.
Who, the guy trying to sell me shocks?
I actually probably owe him an all expenses paid vacation to Punta Cana plus a box of doughnuts for his warehouse guys.
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:54 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:29 pm
Exactly!

:troywax:
Please, tell me how $2k of shocks fixes my transmission that doesn't seem to shift on its own.
I was the one that suggested offing it.

I've never modified a car to address complaints with it to 100% satisfaction. It's just lighting money on fire since you'll still want to get rid of it anyway. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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