Car Talk 4: The Richard Hertz Rent-A-Car 500

Brothers of brub and brap, this is your safe space.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

max225 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:46 am
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:42 am
Need more than 4 figure volume to keep the plant running...pricing will help with volume.

The C7 is still essentially a C5 underneath. So the overall investment on it wasn't that high. The margins on C7s were phenomenal as a result. This is the first real redesign of the vette in almost 30 years, so the spend WAS justified. This thing would be dead in today's climate at GM, but they already spent the money to develop it.
Wait so the c8 is completely replacing the front engine corvette ? I thought gm was going to keep two models the high end c8 and a refreshed c7. I may have to rephrase what I was saying earlier .... if there is no “entry level” corvette at 50-70k no way would a c8 start at 100k+
Yea...C8 completely replaces C7.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42434
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:12 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:46 am
Wait so the c8 is completely replacing the front engine corvette ? I thought gm was going to keep two models the high end c8 and a refreshed c7. I may have to rephrase what I was saying earlier .... if there is no “entry level” corvette at 50-70k no way would a c8 start at 100k+
Yea...C8 completely replaces C7.
:popcorn: oh wow
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

max225 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:14 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:12 pm
Yea...C8 completely replaces C7.
:popcorn: oh wow
That's what I've been saying...it's going to be pretty epic for the price.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

Detroit wrote:
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:14 pm :popcorn: oh wow
That's what I've been saying...it's going to be pretty epic for the price.
There's no difference between $75k and $150k for me, so I guess I just don't fucking care where it really ends up. C7s were out there for $55k MSRP, $49k street price, with :manuel: and a hatch and a targa. That's a great car. I could buy one and have it as my only vehicle.

Paying $75k for an automatic with maybe a tiny frunk is not only unappealing, it's doubly unaffordable. Not only is it more like 50% more money which I don't have, it requires having more space and money for a 2nd vehicle which I also don't have. A C8 will never be an option for me, probably not even used.
User avatar
4zilch
First Sirloin
First Sirloin
Posts: 6241
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:42 am
Drives: Ford Party ST
Location: God’s Country

Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:29 am
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:25 am

See my earlier GM rants. They simply don’t have the design folks of the other cars that it is “competing with”.

If this thing starts at 49,995 and has no mark up. I’ll buy one cash. But we all know that won’t happen. I am :notsure: about that sub 100k price tab, it may be a fake news 99,999 msrp for the first year that goes to 117,995 the year after which is exactly how gm launches all their new vehicles
No, think C7 pricing + ~10% like Griff said. Starting MSRP should be closer to $70k. That's what was approved with the program, though could have changed since then.
:dat:

Similar has been "leaked" from GM
As the only published author in a well-known motorcycle publication in the room...
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

troyguitar wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:29 pm
Detroit wrote: That's what I've been saying...it's going to be pretty epic for the price.
There's no difference between $75k and $150k for me, so I guess I just don't fucking care where it really ends up. C7s were out there for $55k MSRP, $49k street price, with :manuel: and a hatch and a targa. That's a great car. I could buy one and have it as my only vehicle.

Paying $75k for an automatic with maybe a tiny frunk is not only unappealing, it's doubly unaffordable. Not only is it more like 50% more money which I don't have, it requires having more space and money for a 2nd vehicle which I also don't have. A C8 will never be an option for me, probably not even used.
Waxer pointed that out...the front engine car resulted in incredible usability. It really can work as an only vehicle...I'm still shocked by how big the hatch is in my car. Incredible what you can fit back there. C7 is smaller, but not much different.

The mid engine car will probably perform better, but sacrifice that usability. MOST Corvette owners treat them as toys, so it won't matter to sales...but those that don't will be :|

I'm mixed on it, personally. I like what the car achieved as a front engine vehicle, nothing else really like it on the planet. I would have preferred further refinement of that formula, but the mid engine car will really surprise people with its drive and price.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
razr390
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 19644
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:08 am
Drives: MK7.5 on 87

max225 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:50 am Image

I took this pic last night... I mean :wtf: this is just :amazing: next you know guy inside looks like
A :dillerman:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That is one happy :tubeman:
:doughnut: :narc: :doughnut:
Desertbreh wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:05 pm DFD. The forum where everybody makes the same choices and then tells anybody trying to join the club that they are the stupidest motherfucker to ever walk the earth.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

I've always wanted a mid-engine car to :plac: , this would be amazing! I think it will hold value as newer models will drive prices up with added features or whatever, could probably drive it for three years and only lose taxes.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42434
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Tarspin wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:02 pm I've always wanted a mid-engine car to :plac: , this would be amazing! I think it will hold value as newer models will drive prices up with added features or whatever, could probably drive it for three years and only lose taxes.
You'd have a tough choice to make... Cayman S or C8... yes the C8 will be faster and "handle better" but overall build/quality remains to be seen.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

max225 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:05 pm
Tarspin wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:02 pm I've always wanted a mid-engine car to :plac: , this would be amazing! I think it will hold value as newer models will drive prices up with added features or whatever, could probably drive it for three years and only lose taxes.
You'd have a tough choice to make... Cayman S or C8... yes the C8 will be faster and "handle better" but overall build/quality remains to be seen.
GM has amped up build quality in the last 5-10 years. Will it be as nice as a Porsche? No...but it'll be damned close and way faster.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

max225 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:05 pm
Tarspin wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:02 pm I've always wanted a mid-engine car to :plac: , this would be amazing! I think it will hold value as newer models will drive prices up with added features or whatever, could probably drive it for three years and only lose taxes.
You'd have a tough choice to make... Cayman S or C8... yes the C8 will be faster and "handle better" but overall build/quality remains to be seen.
I'd get a used Cayman or Cayman S that has depreciated a bit if I was serious about the three year fun car :plac: , but if money were loose the C8 seems pretty cool. Build quality on the C7 struck me as decent.
User avatar
CorvetteWaxer
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8381
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:35 pm
Drives: 1986 Hyundai Excel, 351C swap
Location: Where it happens every year

D Griff wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:47 am
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:43 am
No...that will maintain.

I don't know why everyone here thinks it's going to be a $100k+ vehicle. Maybe at launch with markups, but the base MSRP will not be that high. It'll put some serious equipment on notice.
OK that makes way more sense with what I'm expecting, basically C7 pricing accross the board or maybe +10%. I'm sure there will be over $100K versions, but that's fine. Even if it starts at $70K, a V8 with 450+ hp mid engine car for that? Pretty cool. I mean that's what like a poverty-spec Cayman with a Subaru motor costs. I'd take the 'vette. Plus with the 'vette of of your coworkers, friends, and family won't hate you like the Porsche.
I've gotten zero hate for my 911 outside some snarky comments from you and another here.

All my employees keep asking me to drive it in and take them out to get coffee or to just drive around and have our 1:1 meetings in the car.
User avatar
CorvetteWaxer
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8381
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:35 pm
Drives: 1986 Hyundai Excel, 351C swap
Location: Where it happens every year

max225 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:25 am
Tarspin wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:21 am

The side air dams are :tits: , and the car looks great proportionally so I just don't know why they wouldn't put a fresh new rear facia on it. I saw a 18/19 Camaro SS drop top in black on the road today, same ass end, seems so bland, not the worst thing on the road just too boring for a car of this magnitude. Like you said, they threw so much at it, why stop short on the cheapest element that everyone sees?
See my earlier GM rants. They simply don’t have the design folks of the other cars that it is “competing with”.

If this thing starts at 49,995 and has no mark up. I’ll buy one cash. But we all know that won’t happen. I am :notsure: about that sub 100k price tab, it may be a fake news 99,999 msrp for the first year that goes to 117,995 the year after which is exactly how gm launches all their new vehicles
You're talking Z06 money, but they aren't launching the Z06 spec car. This will be the base car. <$75k for one pretty loaded up if you ask me. In 2014 my Z51 with almost all options besides automatic and dual roof (I had exposed carbon) was $68.8k MSRP.
User avatar
CorvetteWaxer
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8381
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:35 pm
Drives: 1986 Hyundai Excel, 351C swap
Location: Where it happens every year

Tarspin wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:11 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:05 pm

You'd have a tough choice to make... Cayman S or C8... yes the C8 will be faster and "handle better" but overall build/quality remains to be seen.
I'd get a used Cayman or Cayman S that has depreciated a bit if I was serious about the three year fun car :plac: , but if money were loose the C8 seems pretty cool. Build quality on the C7 struck me as decent.
The C7 quality was outstanding...... Compared to the C6, C5 and Camaro. After nearly 6 months with the 911 my views have changed. Zero rattles, no cheap plastic inside that isn't aligned or falling off like the C7.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42434
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

CorvetteWaxer wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:14 am
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:25 am

See my earlier GM rants. They simply don’t have the design folks of the other cars that it is “competing with”.

If this thing starts at 49,995 and has no mark up. I’ll buy one cash. But we all know that won’t happen. I am :notsure: about that sub 100k price tab, it may be a fake news 99,999 msrp for the first year that goes to 117,995 the year after which is exactly how gm launches all their new vehicles
You're talking Z06 money, but they aren't launching the Z06 spec car. This will be the base car. <$75k for one pretty loaded up if you ask me. In 2014 my Z51 with almost all options besides automatic and dual roof (I had exposed carbon) was $68.8k MSRP.
Yea I fked up I thought they are keeping a rwd Version and bringing out a mid engine one to be more of a Range topic icon car. If it’s a replacement to the c7 then it makes sense that it starts at sub 100k
User avatar
CorvetteWaxer
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8381
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:35 pm
Drives: 1986 Hyundai Excel, 351C swap
Location: Where it happens every year

Tarspin wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:02 pm I've always wanted a mid-engine car to :plac: , this would be amazing! I think it will hold value as newer models will drive prices up with added features or whatever, could probably drive it for three years and only lose taxes.
You still talking about a Corvette?

At the middle of year 2 they will be selling new for the normal 15-20% off and everyone that paid MSRP or more will be taking a bath. Has been this way with the C5, C6 versions and the C7 variants. The only one that hasn't had this happen was the C7 ZR1 due to low build volume and low sales. Basically they are built to order only at that price point.
User avatar
CorvetteWaxer
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8381
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:35 pm
Drives: 1986 Hyundai Excel, 351C swap
Location: Where it happens every year

max225 wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:21 am
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:14 am

You're talking Z06 money, but they aren't launching the Z06 spec car. This will be the base car. <$75k for one pretty loaded up if you ask me. In 2014 my Z51 with almost all options besides automatic and dual roof (I had exposed carbon) was $68.8k MSRP.
Yea I fked up I thought they are keeping a rwd Version and bringing out a mid engine one to be more of a Range topic icon car. If it’s a replacement to the c7 then it makes sense that it starts at sub 100k
The was rumor that they would produce the C7 along side the c8 for a bit but with the inventory I can't see that happening. All the c8 sightings have been a NA car that is presumably a refined LT1.

History had always been a base car first and the up model in the next year after the production line is running smooth.

We'll see, but I have no interest in buying anything GM again unless they make big changes and commitments to quality and their customers.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42434
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

CorvetteWaxer wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:31 am
max225 wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:21 am

Yea I fked up I thought they are keeping a rwd Version and bringing out a mid engine one to be more of a Range topic icon car. If it’s a replacement to the c7 then it makes sense that it starts at sub 100k
The was rumor that they would produce the C7 along side the c8 for a bit but with the inventory I can't see that happening. All the c8 sightings have been a NA car that is presumably a refined LT1.

History had always been a base car first and the up model in the next year after the production line is running smooth.

We'll see, but I have no interest in buying anything GM again unless they make big changes and commitments to quality and their customers.
And a first model year ... :nope: gm fucked every single first model year corvette in history ...
User avatar
D Griff
Trollistrator
Trollistrator
Posts: 28793
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:49 am
Drives: Bicycles/Two Feet

CorvetteWaxer wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:10 am
D Griff wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:47 am

OK that makes way more sense with what I'm expecting, basically C7 pricing accross the board or maybe +10%. I'm sure there will be over $100K versions, but that's fine. Even if it starts at $70K, a V8 with 450+ hp mid engine car for that? Pretty cool. I mean that's what like a poverty-spec Cayman with a Subaru motor costs. I'd take the 'vette. Plus with the 'vette of of your coworkers, friends, and family won't hate you like the Porsche.
I've gotten zero hate for my 911 outside some snarky comments from you and another here.

All my employees keep asking me to drive it in and take them out to get coffee or to just drive around and have our 1:1 meetings in the car.
I mean, I like Porsches... but I’m from a blue collar family and my fiancée is too. The BMW has been bad enough. Also I imagine everyone you work with has more wealth than most where I work. It’s stupid to care but still annoying to have resentment based on what you drive.
User avatar
D Griff
Trollistrator
Trollistrator
Posts: 28793
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:49 am
Drives: Bicycles/Two Feet

CorvetteWaxer wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:10 am
D Griff wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:47 am

OK that makes way more sense with what I'm expecting, basically C7 pricing accross the board or maybe +10%. I'm sure there will be over $100K versions, but that's fine. Even if it starts at $70K, a V8 with 450+ hp mid engine car for that? Pretty cool. I mean that's what like a poverty-spec Cayman with a Subaru motor costs. I'd take the 'vette. Plus with the 'vette of of your coworkers, friends, and family won't hate you like the Porsche.
I've gotten zero hate for my 911 outside some snarky comments from you and another here.

All my employees keep asking me to drive it in and take them out to get coffee or to just drive around and have our 1:1 meetings in the car.
I mean, I like Porsches... but I’m from a blue collar family and my fiancée is too. The BMW has been bad enough. Also I imagine everyone you work with has more wealth than most where I work. It’s stupid to care but still annoying to have resentment based on what you drive.
User avatar
CaleDeRoo
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8012
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:46 pm
Drives: C5
Location: CLT NC

D Griff wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:59 am
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:10 am

I've gotten zero hate for my 911 outside some snarky comments from you and another here.

All my employees keep asking me to drive it in and take them out to get coffee or to just drive around and have our 1:1 meetings in the car.
I mean, I like Porsches... but I’m from a blue collar family and my fiancée is too. The BMW has been bad enough. Also I imagine everyone you work with has more wealth than most where I work. It’s stupid to care but still annoying to have resentment based on what you drive.
Man I got this with just a fucking C5. A couple guys in the inspection department gave me problems in any way they could because "I was driving my dad's car" to work.

:disgust:

I can't imagine if I showed up in a 996 or gayman
Last edited by CaleDeRoo on Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
CaleDeRoo
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8012
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:46 pm
Drives: C5
Location: CLT NC

Delete
User avatar
D Griff
Trollistrator
Trollistrator
Posts: 28793
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:49 am
Drives: Bicycles/Two Feet

CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:13 am
D Griff wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:59 am

I mean, I like Porsches... but I’m from a blue collar family and my fiancée is too. The BMW has been bad enough. Also I imagine everyone you work with has more wealth than most where I work. It’s stupid to care but still annoying to have resentment based on what you drive.
Man I got this with just a fucking C5. A couple guys in the inspection department gave me problems in any way they could because "I was driving my dad's car" to work.

:disgust:

I can't imagine if I showed up in a 996 or gayman
Not everywhere is the Bay Area :lolol:

I find most people just are like “that’s cool” with the C5. Many are shocked it’s almost 20 years old.
User avatar
CaleDeRoo
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8012
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:46 pm
Drives: C5
Location: CLT NC

D Griff wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:24 am
CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:13 am

Man I got this with just a fucking C5. A couple guys in the inspection department gave me problems in any way they could because "I was driving my dad's car" to work.

:disgust:

I can't imagine if I showed up in a 996 or gayman
Not everywhere is the Bay Area :lolol:

I find most people just are like “that’s cool” with the C5. Many are shocked it’s almost 20 years old.
That's how most people were, and asking genuine questions about it, but some people were actually butt hurt, and it just so happened to be people that can actually make things difficult for me here.

Now I really want a Porsche for a few days
User avatar
CaleDeRoo
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8012
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:46 pm
Drives: C5
Location: CLT NC

D Griff wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:24 am
CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:13 am

Man I got this with just a fucking C5. A couple guys in the inspection department gave me problems in any way they could because "I was driving my dad's car" to work.

:disgust:

I can't imagine if I showed up in a 996 or gayman
Not everywhere is the Bay Area :lolol:

I find most people just are like “that’s cool” with the C5. Many are shocked it’s almost 20 years old.
That's how most people were, and asking genuine questions about it, but some people were actually butt hurt, and it just so happened to be people that can actually make things difficult for me here.

Now I really want a Porsche for a few days
Locked