More of a depreciation comment than a reliability one, but sure, rich people give no fucks about this and a lot more.max225 wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 2:39 pmA first owner for a Range Rover doesn't usually own it out of warranty so it's not like the give a fk about any repairs unless their newish car starts leaving them stranded next to the Chanel store on Rodeo drive.Desertbreh wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 1:51 pm
If you're going to be brand loyal, that's a better way to go than say, Jaguar or Range Rover
Jeeponomics 101: Eternal tirekicking for the gutless Jeep
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I would think that the average household income of a RR owner is well into the 7 figures, so the fact that it loses "60k" in 4 years is chump change, when the country club charges that monthly.Desertbreh wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 2:47 pmMore of a depreciation comment than a reliability one, but sure, rich people give no fucks about this and a lot more.
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Ok Max, I should never have posted in the first place.max225 wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 3:31 pmI would think that the average household income of a RR owner is well into the 7 figures, so the fact that it loses "60k" in 4 years is chump change, when the country club charges that monthly.Desertbreh wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 2:47 pm
More of a depreciation comment than a reliability one, but sure, rich people give no fucks about this and a lot more.
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Keep posting, you've been slacking lately.
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Fair enough.[user not found] wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 4:31 pmBecause they’re annoying and ugly.
I’d sooner do the hood lock than locking latches.
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Good question. I don't have much contact with sales anymore, so it's hard to say. I'm in product planning, spending more time on new feature/vehicle development. Which, your concerns about wind noise have not gone unnoticed, especially recently. We've been tasked with further improving daily livability.
You might want to wait a few years if it's a serious concern.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Well I am being 100% honest here, I loved 90% of the vehicle. To me that is a DD issue. Braking/steering/accelerating etc are all fine. Wind noise and being tossed around on the freeway during windy conditions wasn't. I don't remember anywhere near this issue on the suburban I took on the same route, so the whole "boxy" argument goes out the window.Detroit wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 pmGood question. I don't have much contact with sales anymore, so it's hard to say. I'm in product planning, spending more time on new feature/vehicle development. Which, your concerns about wind noise have not gone unnoticed, especially recently. We've been tasked with further improving daily livability.
You might want to wait a few years if it's a serious concern.
Sub 65mph and no headwind the JL is completely fine, and the porta potty roof is MORE insulating than the one in my M3 which is REALLY WARM to the touch even through the insulation, the Jeep in 105F direct sun was luke warm.
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There's been a lot of complaints of wind noise. My boss (who hired me) recently started in his gig from Ram. He thinks the JL shouldn't have been marked salable with the current wind noise. The JL was such a quantum leap over the JK that he thinks nobody pushed hard enough to justify the higher price of the vehicle. It has to do with the removable roof. Drive one with the power top, and it's WAY quieter because it's not intended to be removed and can seal properly.max225 wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:21 pmWell I am being 100% honest here, I loved 90% of the vehicle. To me that is a DD issue. Braking/steering/accelerating etc are all fine. Wind noise and being tossed around on the freeway during windy conditions wasn't. I don't remember anywhere near this issue on the suburban I took on the same route, so the whole "boxy" argument goes out the window.Detroit wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 pm
Good question. I don't have much contact with sales anymore, so it's hard to say. I'm in product planning, spending more time on new feature/vehicle development. Which, your concerns about wind noise have not gone unnoticed, especially recently. We've been tasked with further improving daily livability.
You might want to wait a few years if it's a serious concern.
Sub 65mph and no headwind the JL is completely fine, and the porta potty roof is MORE insulating than the one in my M3 which is REALLY WARM to the touch even through the insulation, the Jeep in 105F direct sun was luke warm.
The being tossed around on the freeway is due to the archaic solid front axle. There's nothing you can do about that without going IFS, which would make people I personally think IFS isn't the hindrance it once was and should be reconsidered. I may or may not get anywhere with that.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Interesting point on the power top... the fucking 4k upcharge is just frankly robbery, but I am actually really interested in that top/removable side windows, which areDetroit wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:29 pmThere's been a lot of complaints of wind noise. My boss (who hired me) recently started in his gig from Ram. He thinks the JL shouldn't have been marked salable with the current wind noise. The JL was such a quantum leap over the JK that he thinks nobody pushed hard enough to justify the higher price of the vehicle. It has to do with the removable roof. Drive one with the power top, and it's WAY quieter because it's not intended to be removed and can seal properly.max225 wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:21 pm
Well I am being 100% honest here, I loved 90% of the vehicle. To me that is a DD issue. Braking/steering/accelerating etc are all fine. Wind noise and being tossed around on the freeway during windy conditions wasn't. I don't remember anywhere near this issue on the suburban I took on the same route, so the whole "boxy" argument goes out the window.
Sub 65mph and no headwind the JL is completely fine, and the porta potty roof is MORE insulating than the one in my M3 which is REALLY WARM to the touch even through the insulation, the Jeep in 105F direct sun was luke warm.
The being tossed around on the freeway is due to the archaic solid front axle. There's nothing you can do about that without going IFS, which would make people I personally think IFS isn't the hindrance it once was and should be reconsidered. I may or may not get anywhere with that.
The tossing around is due to side winds not solid axle. This thing drives straight as an arrow on most shitty roads etc. I have 0 qualms about ride quality in the jeep, as well as steering in normal situations.
All my qualms are around wind/windnoise and having not driven the rubicon yet, likely MPG on that model.
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My local dealer has a Sahara Manuel with 6spd and that top. Heavily discounted from what I remember. I think it had the 8.4 uconnect and LEDs too.max225 wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:34 pmInteresting point on the power top... the fucking 4k upcharge is just frankly robbery, but I am actually really interested in that top/removable side windows, which areDetroit wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:29 pm
There's been a lot of complaints of wind noise. My boss (who hired me) recently started in his gig from Ram. He thinks the JL shouldn't have been marked salable with the current wind noise. The JL was such a quantum leap over the JK that he thinks nobody pushed hard enough to justify the higher price of the vehicle. It has to do with the removable roof. Drive one with the power top, and it's WAY quieter because it's not intended to be removed and can seal properly.
The being tossed around on the freeway is due to the archaic solid front axle. There's nothing you can do about that without going IFS, which would make people I personally think IFS isn't the hindrance it once was and should be reconsidered. I may or may not get anywhere with that.
The tossing around is due to side winds not solid axle. This thing drives straight as an arrow on most shitty roads etc. I have 0 qualms about ride quality in the jeep, as well as steering in normal situations.
All my qualms are around wind/windnoise and having not driven the rubicon yet, likely MPG on that model.
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You may as well design a new model if the Wrangler goes IFS. The mobs and pitchforks will be after you in a heartbeat if you get rid of that solid front axle.Detroit wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:29 pmThere's been a lot of complaints of wind noise. My boss (who hired me) recently started in his gig from Ram. He thinks the JL shouldn't have been marked salable with the current wind noise. The JL was such a quantum leap over the JK that he thinks nobody pushed hard enough to justify the higher price of the vehicle. It has to do with the removable roof. Drive one with the power top, and it's WAY quieter because it's not intended to be removed and can seal properly.max225 wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:21 pm
Well I am being 100% honest here, I loved 90% of the vehicle. To me that is a DD issue. Braking/steering/accelerating etc are all fine. Wind noise and being tossed around on the freeway during windy conditions wasn't. I don't remember anywhere near this issue on the suburban I took on the same route, so the whole "boxy" argument goes out the window.
Sub 65mph and no headwind the JL is completely fine, and the porta potty roof is MORE insulating than the one in my M3 which is REALLY WARM to the touch even through the insulation, the Jeep in 105F direct sun was luke warm.
The being tossed around on the freeway is due to the archaic solid front axle. There's nothing you can do about that without going IFS, which would make people I personally think IFS isn't the hindrance it once was and should be reconsidered. I may or may not get anywhere with that.
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The aero is part of the issue, but the steering makes it worse. Recirculating ball steering just isn't precise, especially when compared to rack and pinion. Its why you have to make constant adjustments when driving down the highway, and it's worse in wind. I'm not talking out my ass, this is directly from engineering.max225 wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:34 pmInteresting point on the power top... the fucking 4k upcharge is just frankly robbery, but I am actually really interested in that top/removable side windows, which areDetroit wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:29 pm
There's been a lot of complaints of wind noise. My boss (who hired me) recently started in his gig from Ram. He thinks the JL shouldn't have been marked salable with the current wind noise. The JL was such a quantum leap over the JK that he thinks nobody pushed hard enough to justify the higher price of the vehicle. It has to do with the removable roof. Drive one with the power top, and it's WAY quieter because it's not intended to be removed and can seal properly.
The being tossed around on the freeway is due to the archaic solid front axle. There's nothing you can do about that without going IFS, which would make people I personally think IFS isn't the hindrance it once was and should be reconsidered. I may or may not get anywhere with that.
The tossing around is due to side winds not solid axle. This thing drives straight as an arrow on most shitty roads etc. I have 0 qualms about ride quality in the jeep, as well as steering in normal situations.
All my qualms are around wind/windnoise and having not driven the rubicon yet, likely MPG on that model.
I wouldn't suggest replacing solid axles in all Wranglers, but it could make sense in upper trim level vehicles that are bought by people that want the look and experience, but wont see much off-road. It'd still be very capable off-road, so you're not giving up much, really. Those are the people complaining about the drive anyway. It would be perfect for Max for example.
The power top is epic. I experienced it recently, and couldn't believe how great it is. It's the final solution, but it costs way too much. That could be fixed with design and scale, which I'm going to push hard for.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Hummer H3, FJ Cruiser, 4Runner (kind of) are all slab sided sails that didn't experience the same drivability issue. IFS has a huge role in it. There's a place for it in the lineup IMO.[user not found] wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 9:36 amDetroit wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:29 pm
There's been a lot of complaints of wind noise. My boss (who hired me) recently started in his gig from Ram. He thinks the JL shouldn't have been marked salable with the current wind noise. The JL was such a quantum leap over the JK that he thinks nobody pushed hard enough to justify the higher price of the vehicle. It has to do with the removable roof. Drive one with the power top, and it's WAY quieter because it's not intended to be removed and can seal properly.
The being tossed around on the freeway is due to the archaic solid front axle. There's nothing you can do about that without going IFS, which would make people I personally think IFS isn't the hindrance it once was and should be reconsidered. I may or may not get anywhere with that.
Leave the solid axle alone.
Also, it's due more to the slab-sided design. It's a big sail driving down the highway.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Right. It doesn't replace anything, just becomes a trim option for people that want better highway manners.Apex wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 8:42 amYou may as well design a new model if the Wrangler goes IFS. The mobs and pitchforks will be after you in a heartbeat if you get rid of that solid front axle.Detroit wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:29 pm
There's been a lot of complaints of wind noise. My boss (who hired me) recently started in his gig from Ram. He thinks the JL shouldn't have been marked salable with the current wind noise. The JL was such a quantum leap over the JK that he thinks nobody pushed hard enough to justify the higher price of the vehicle. It has to do with the removable roof. Drive one with the power top, and it's WAY quieter because it's not intended to be removed and can seal properly.
The being tossed around on the freeway is due to the archaic solid front axle. There's nothing you can do about that without going IFS, which would make people I personally think IFS isn't the hindrance it once was and should be reconsidered. I may or may not get anywhere with that.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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No idea. Jeep and Ram planning are completely separate. Which is good and bad.[user not found] wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 10:20 amSounds like it's something that could underpin the next Dogekota.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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It's super capable. Wrangler is the last solid axle passenger vehicle in existence. Other vehicles are pretty danged capable but have far better highway manners. Yes, more expensive to deal with potentially, but for a large portion of buyers, that doesn't really matter.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.