List of under-tired "performance/sports" cars :triggered:

[Apex]

There are disadvantages to wider tires, hydroplaning at lower speeds, gas mileage, and weight are some.

Valid points, however handling prowess should be a priority in sports sedans, adding 1-3lbs per tire to gain .1gs seems like an acceptable compromise.

Not for 99% of the talking wallets doe.

[max225]

Valid points, however handling prowess should be a priority in sports sedans, adding 1-3lbs per tire to gain .1gs seems like an acceptable compromise.

I'm sure the high point of every BMW driver is finding out how many G's it pulls.

The reasons are obvious as to why the tire sizes get cut. Also obviously BMW isn't the only brand doing this.

[max225]

Valid points, however handling prowess should be a priority in sports sedans, adding 1-3lbs per tire to gain .1gs seems like an acceptable compromise.

Not for 99% of the talking wallets doe.

Talking wallets would be fine with 195s in the front of their 320i lease that gets them to $300 a month which is what "my wife" is ok with.

The cars listed here are quite a few levels above "talking wallet " spec.

Most of these cars are uniquely caught between performance and neutering due to more expensive examples being available for upsell.

[max225]

same tire size a golf in a 3550lb convertible ?

Absolute grip is not the end-all/be-all.

That is not the point of this thread.

[Melon]

You also need to take into account which tire OEM suppliers use.
PSS =/= PS Cup 2 =/= Continental All Season =/= Michelin Eco-Tire

[max225]

You also need to take into account which tire OEM suppliers use.
PSS =/= PS Cup 2 =/= Continental All Season =/= Michelin Eco-Tire

Very valid point as well.

[fledonfoot]

FRS/BRZ/86 has a 215/45/17 all season Bridgestone Turanza from the factory. When I put 225/40/17 Conti DW's on it, it was like throwing on a set of Hoosiers.

[Apex]

That is not the point of this thread.

What is the point of this thread? Just to measure the width of front tires and say cars don't measure up?

If you add tire width, you decrease steering feel and 'willingness to dance.' You also decrease MPG.

BMW already has a massive issue with numb steering wheels, too.

Of course, there is some truth to the neutering of numbers so that higher trims aren't eschewed by lower plebe specs, but the bottom line is that there's a delicate balance to providing the right Maxfax that get printed in magazines. You need to have grip, MPG, straight line performance, and 'steering feel.'

There is no winning. Just get another set of rear wheels for your car, and put a square setup on the German Camry, brah.

Can't, he won't "burn cash" on this rental.

[SixSpeeder]

My 350z was snappy and the oversteer could kill you if you didn't know what you're doing, my Camaro SS in comparison was neutral at the limit and only really oversteered if you were trying to. I can have more fun behind the wheel of a 350z than a Camaro SS, but I can see how most people would like the more neutral handling of the Camaro 1SS at the limit. The Z was scary sometimes especially in the rain, I had no fear in the Camaro. People don't buy a BMW for , they just want to go fast effortlessly in style.

[max225]

What is the point of this thread? Just to measure the width of front tires and say cars don't measure up?

If you add tire width, you decrease steering feel and 'willingness to dance.' You also decrease MPG.

BMW already has a massive issue with numb steering wheels, too.

Of course, there is some truth to the neutering of numbers so that higher trims aren't eschewed by lower plebe specs, but the bottom line is that there's a delicate balance to providing the right Maxfax that get printed in magazines. You need to have grip, MPG, straight line performance, and 'steering feel.'

There is no winning. Just get another set of rear wheels for your car, and put a square setup on the German Camry, brah.

Can't, he won't "burn cash" on this rental.

[NeonJonny]

Any fast dodge has ever sold besides the viper, really. The daytona, srt4, neon acr, anyone?
Width isnt everything. Height is just as important. Not pointless 19s or 20s. an actual aspect ratio.
I agree with the thread but manufacturers need to draw a line somewhere. 90% of people buy aftermarket wheels anyway? From what you all tell me i wouldn't want bmw wheels anyway!
Yes cars get heavier. Wider tires are only a bandaid for that.

[max225]

That is not the point of this thread.

What is the point of this thread? Just to measure the width of front tires and say cars don't measure up?

If you add tire width, you decrease steering feel and 'willingness to dance.' You also decrease MPG.

BMW already has a massive issue with numb steering wheels, too.

Of course, there is some truth to the neutering of numbers so that higher trims aren't eschewed by lower plebe specs, but the bottom line is that there's a delicate balance to providing the right Maxfax that get printed in magazines. You need to have grip, MPG, straight line performance, and 'steering feel.'

There is no winning. Just get another set of rear wheels for your car, and put a square setup on the German Camry, brah.

You can't the fun out of being an enthusiast - just spend a couple dollars and put a smile on that Russian mug.

The point was to point out the vehicles that could benefit from using bigger tires without much compromise if any, and to point out which vehicles were purposefully neutered to achieve up-sell to higher end models or for plain reasons.

Think of the times when Porsche refused to get the Boxster a decent engine so that it doesn't compete with the 911 even though it was the better chassis.

[max225]

The point was to point out the vehicles that could benefit from using bigger tires without much compromise if any, and to point out which vehicles were purposefully neutered to achieve up-sell to higher end models or for plain reasons.

Think of the times when Porsche refused to get the Boxster a decent engine so that it doesn't compete with the 911 even though it was the better chassis.

More grip alone does not a better car make.

I am not sure where you're going with this?
My point was plain and simple. I even included a great article from edmunds.
235 all around tires for mustang GT make it handle like a civic
255/275 setup makes it world class

Obviously there are other factors, and yes the sky could fall tomorrow.

[max225]

Also in my cars case the tires/wheels are what are holding it back from basically handling better than almost anything else on the road.

[troyguitar]

The point was to point out the vehicles that could benefit from using bigger tires without much compromise if any, and to point out which vehicles were purposefully neutered to achieve up-sell to higher end models or for plain reasons.

Think of the times when Porsche refused to get the Boxster a decent engine so that it doesn't compete with the 911 even though it was the better chassis.

More grip alone does not a better car make.

When you have no emotions it does.

How to evaluate a car:

(Skidpad g * 100) + (Peak Torque in ft-lbs) - (0-60 time * 50) - (Interior dB level at 80 mph) = MaxFax Car Score

[max225]

More grip alone does not a better car make.

When you have no emotions it does.

How to evaluate a car:

(Skidpad g * 100) + (Peak Torque in ft-lbs) - (0-60 time * 50) - (Interior dB level at 80 mph) = MaxFax Car Score

How to evaluate a car in Troy spec.

Price above Vibe x-100
+ performance relative to Ninja 250 x50
+ dual zone climate x100
+ interior volume compared to vibe x100
+ MPG above x100 other -x100

Two can play that game.

[Melon]

Me reading this thread:

[troyguitar]

When you have no emotions it does.

How to evaluate a car:

(Skidpad g * 100) + (Peak Torque in ft-lbs) - (0-60 time * 50) - (Interior dB level at 80 mph) = MaxFax Car Score

How to evaluate a car in Troy spec.

Price above Vibe x-100
+ performance relative to Ninja 250 x50
+ dual zone climate x100
+ interior volume compared to vibe x100
+ MPG above x100 other -x100

Two can play that game.

Mine's easier than that.

rev limit / cost = factor

[Desertbreh]

Valid points, however handling prowess should be a priority in sports sedans, adding 1-3lbs per tire to gain .1gs seems like an acceptable compromise.

I'm sure the high point of every BMW driver is purchasing a color matched Rolex to wear with a pop collar whilst picking up Buffy from the spa.

[max225]

When you have no emotions it does.

How to evaluate a car:

(Skidpad g * 100) + (Peak Torque in ft-lbs) - (0-60 time * 50) - (Interior dB level at 80 mph) = MaxFax Car Score

Can we actually start making a list of cars evaluated on this scale? I'm curious as to what tops the list.

Viper

[Melon]

When you have no emotions it does.

How to evaluate a car:

(Skidpad g * 100) + (Peak Torque in ft-lbs) - (0-60 time * 50) - (Interior dB level at 80 mph) = MaxFax Car Score

Can we actually start making a list of cars evaluated on this scale? I'm curious as to what tops the list.

[Johnny_P]

Any fast dodge has ever sold besides the viper, really. The daytona, srt4, neon acr, anyone?
Width isnt everything. Height is just as important. Not pointless 19s or 20s. an actual aspect ratio.
I agree with the thread but manufacturers need to draw a line somewhere. 90% of people buy aftermarket wheels anyway? From what you all tell me i wouldn't want bmw wheels anyway!
Yes cars get heavier. Wider tires are only a bandaid for that.

Hellcats are under tired af. 707 hp on a 275 tire.

[Melon]

Space Shuttle:
44.5x16.0-21 Tire
Over 37,000,000 Hp

[max225]

Any fast dodge has ever sold besides the viper, really. The daytona, srt4, neon acr, anyone?
Width isnt everything. Height is just as important. Not pointless 19s or 20s. an actual aspect ratio.
I agree with the thread but manufacturers need to draw a line somewhere. 90% of people buy aftermarket wheels anyway? From what you all tell me i wouldn't want bmw wheels anyway!
Yes cars get heavier. Wider tires are only a bandaid for that.

Hellcats are under tired af. 707 hp on a 275 tire.

For acceleration yes absolutely but you can't put down 707 hp with street tires period, unless awd

Also it has 275 in the front which is decent

[max225]

Space Shuttle:
44.5x16.0-21 Tire
Over 37,000,000 Hp

Not a car but nice try