Tire Kicking By Griff

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D Griff wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:00 am And I agree, the focus RS is compelling. For me I think it kind of rules the Evo out when they are the same price. The RS does everything better performance wise but isn’t a total shitbox and getting something 10 years newer is appealing.
The problem I had with the FoRS was it was a $44k $20k car. Aside from the seats, it was obvious you were sitting in a... focus. Yes it was fast and handled well, but the interior left a lot to be desired for me. It was easier to stomach in the ST for $24k.

And a GTI/GoRf is such a nicer place to be.
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fledonfoot wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:46 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:00 am And I agree, the focus RS is compelling. For me I think it kind of rules the Evo out when they are the same price. The RS does everything better performance wise but isn’t a total shitbox and getting something 10 years newer is appealing.
The problem I had with the FoRS was it was a $44k $20k car. Aside from the seats, it was obvious you were sitting in a... focus. Yes it was fast and handled well, but the interior left a lot to be desired for me. It was easier to stomach in the ST for $24k.

And a GTI/GoRf is such a nicer place to be.
Does it change the appeal of a FORS now that they are 25k? I actually think Dan will :aintcare: about the interior, thanks in part to seven plus years of C5 ownership. I had a base C6, and it was still a laughably far cry from a VAG interior. As a combo track/street product, I think that the FORS is the best choice.
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Tarspin wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:04 pm
fledonfoot wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:46 pm

The problem I had with the FoRS was it was a $44k $20k car. Aside from the seats, it was obvious you were sitting in a... focus. Yes it was fast and handled well, but the interior left a lot to be desired for me. It was easier to stomach in the ST for $24k.

And a GTI/GoRf is such a nicer place to be.
Does it change the appeal of a FORS now that they are 25k? I actually think Dan will :aintcare: about the interior, thanks in part to seven plus years of C5 ownership. I had a base C6, and it was still a laughably far cry from a VAG interior. As a combo track/street product, I think that the FORS is the best choice.
I didn’t mind the FoRS interior. Yes it’s not great but it’s usable and most things are completely fine other than the illegible gayge needles in the aux Gayge cluster.
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max225 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:26 pm
Tarspin wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:04 pm

Does it change the appeal of a FORS now that they are 25k? I actually think Dan will :aintcare: about the interior, thanks in part to seven plus years of C5 ownership. I had a base C6, and it was still a laughably far cry from a VAG interior. As a combo track/street product, I think that the FORS is the best choice.
I didn’t mind the FoRS interior. Yes it’s not great but it’s usable and most things are completely fine other than the illegible gayge needles in the aux Gayge cluster.
I watched your boy D.D. disect the hot hatch segment, and when he was ripping around in the FORS I thought to myself that THIS is the perfect transition from Corvette ownership.

I think you posted up a control module for the FORS suspension, do you remember that? Is it possible to manage the rough ride with one of those units? I'd probably throw some koni/blisten shocks at the car to fix the biggest flaw, ride comfort.
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Tarspin wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:04 pm
fledonfoot wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:46 pm

The problem I had with the FoRS was it was a $44k $20k car. Aside from the seats, it was obvious you were sitting in a... focus. Yes it was fast and handled well, but the interior left a lot to be desired for me. It was easier to stomach in the ST for $24k.

And a GTI/GoRf is such a nicer place to be.
Does it change the appeal of a FORS now that they are 25k? I actually think Dan will :aintcare: about the interior, thanks in part to seven plus years of C5 ownership. I had a base C6, and it was still a laughably far cry from a VAG interior. As a combo track/street product, I think that the FORS is the best choice.
:dat:

I have spent a lot of time in that gen Focus and the interior is fine to me. It's just not something I care about. It is clear VW puts a lot of money/energy into making the product feel :fancy: and quality. FoRS, Evo, STi... more money is spent on making it fun. Pick your poison. There is a reason 911s are $150K, they do all of these things really well.

For folks like most of us here, you have to pick and choose what is really important.

That piece of it does make me think I should wait a bit and see where life/my needs take me. If I get the position I hope to later this year and I'm making a lot of multi hour drives for work regularly, I might be more excited by something like an M235i or Golf R than I am now.

I'm :notsure: though, what little driving of my Corvette I do is mostly road tripping. I drive to track events, hikes, trips with friends. I am driving to Road Atlanta tomorrow, so it will be 3+ hours each way, obviously a few hours/day in the car on track Saturday and Sunday, then back home Sunday night. I really look forward to kicking back in the car on the way to/from GA with a podcast and Diet Coke, that is a treat for me and the heinous interior doesn't really factor in. I think I would hate it in my old NA Miata, but the C5 is good enough.
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Tarspin wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:33 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:26 pm

I didn’t mind the FoRS interior. Yes it’s not great but it’s usable and most things are completely fine other than the illegible gayge needles in the aux Gayge cluster.
I watched your boy D.D. disect the hot hatch segment, and when he was ripping around in the FORS I thought to myself that THIS is the perfect transition from Corvette ownership.

I think you posted up a control module for the FORS suspension, do you remember that? Is it possible to manage the rough ride with one of those units? I'd probably throw some koni/blisten shocks at the car to fix the biggest flaw, ride comfort.
:dat: as well. It is a car to try out the AWD/rally hot hatch thing while still maintaining the "sports car" dynamics a bit.
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Tarspin wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:41 pm I like them in white with a red int, this one has black but it is one of the cheapest in your area:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/

Sporty looking red:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/

There is a yellow one, but it looked ghetto with a wrapped hood or whatev, so fuck that post.
I was next to one of these for a few miles/stoplights. As opposed to the riced out wannabe versions of this thing it seemed pretty bad ass/sinister. They are certainly rare and will hold their value well. I would certainly test drive one.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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So as usual, the track events this weekend reignited my love for the :poorvette:

I still want to test drive some things (Evo, FoRS, Hype R) and maybe think on it some more. Next time I have a one-on-one with BossBro maybe I can follow up on the alleged promotion/change in role as that may impact my car situation.

It is rather "impressive: how good a C5 is for $10K :doe: . I drove to/from Atlanta in relative comfort (3.5 hours each way), went out on track and mopped the floor with nearly everything in my run group (I passed many M3s, Miatas, Mustangs, Z cars... mostly only got passed by some race prepped cars and better Corvettes). While there, nothing on my car broke. When it was cold, I had working climate control and could chill in there no problem. I did most of the event in 'Competitive Driving' mode as Road Atlanta has a lot of walls and can be scary, but when I went into everything off, I actually got faster and the car felt better.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:24 pm So as usual, the track events this weekend reignited my love for the :poorvette:

I still want to test drive some things (Evo, FoRS, Hype R) and maybe think on it some more. Next time I have a one-on-one with BossBro maybe I can follow up on the alleged promotion/change in role as that may impact my car situation.

It is rather "impressive: how good a C5 is for $10K :doe: . I drove to/from Atlanta in relative comfort (3.5 hours each way), went out on track and mopped the floor with nearly everything in my run group (I passed many M3s, Miatas, Mustangs, Z cars... mostly only got passed by some race prepped cars and better Corvettes). While there, nothing on my car broke. When it was cold, I had working climate control and could chill in there no problem. I did most of the event in 'Competitive Driving' mode as Road Atlanta has a lot of walls and can be scary, but when I went into everything off, I actually got faster and the car felt better.
Yep the C5 is the equivalent of a XJ in the off road field. It'll do what a 6x more expensive wrangler will do for most if not more as it is smaller.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:24 pm So as usual, the track events this weekend reignited my love for the :poorvette:

I still want to test drive some things (Evo, FoRS, Hype R) and maybe think on it some more. Next time I have a one-on-one with BossBro maybe I can follow up on the alleged promotion/change in role as that may impact my car situation.

It is rather "impressive: how good a C5 is for $10K :doe: . I drove to/from Atlanta in relative comfort (3.5 hours each way), went out on track and mopped the floor with nearly everything in my run group (I passed many M3s, Miatas, Mustangs, Z cars... mostly only got passed by some race prepped cars and better Corvettes). While there, nothing on my car broke. When it was cold, I had working climate control and could chill in there no problem. I did most of the event in 'Competitive Driving' mode as Road Atlanta has a lot of walls and can be scary, but when I went into everything off, I actually got faster and the car felt better.
Competitive Driving mode is better than it has any business being. I always did track stuff in that mode, it allows for an :impressive: amount of fun before intervening, and it saved my ass on a number of occasions.

I maintain that you'll be let down by anything else by comparison, espepcially with the prices of things these days. Switching to another car is just for the change of scenery, and fine as long as that's all you're looking for.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:34 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:24 pm So as usual, the track events this weekend reignited my love for the :poorvette:

I still want to test drive some things (Evo, FoRS, Hype R) and maybe think on it some more. Next time I have a one-on-one with BossBro maybe I can follow up on the alleged promotion/change in role as that may impact my car situation.

It is rather "impressive: how good a C5 is for $10K :doe: . I drove to/from Atlanta in relative comfort (3.5 hours each way), went out on track and mopped the floor with nearly everything in my run group (I passed many M3s, Miatas, Mustangs, Z cars... mostly only got passed by some race prepped cars and better Corvettes). While there, nothing on my car broke. When it was cold, I had working climate control and could chill in there no problem. I did most of the event in 'Competitive Driving' mode as Road Atlanta has a lot of walls and can be scary, but when I went into everything off, I actually got faster and the car felt better.
Competitive Driving mode is better than it has any business being. I always did track stuff in that mode, it allows for an :impressive: amount of fun before intervening, and it saved my ass on a number of occasions.

I maintain that you'll be let down by anything else by comparison, espepcially with the prices of things these days. Switching to another car is just for the change of scenery, and fine as long as that's all you're looking for.
I did kind of like the Z car idea if staying with sports cars... but there was a 370 out there who was more or less on pace with me in corners (maybe a little slower) and I just destroyed him in the straights. Doesn't really make sense, but that is what happened. Maybe I was just exiting way better and carrying more speed, but it seemed like I was just walking him with stock powah.

Also, the Falken RT615K all around at 275 width is :impressive: as hell when it's not too hot. They start to give up a lot sooner in 75-80+ temps.
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max225 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:29 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:24 pm So as usual, the track events this weekend reignited my love for the :poorvette:

I still want to test drive some things (Evo, FoRS, Hype R) and maybe think on it some more. Next time I have a one-on-one with BossBro maybe I can follow up on the alleged promotion/change in role as that may impact my car situation.

It is rather "impressive: how good a C5 is for $10K :doe: . I drove to/from Atlanta in relative comfort (3.5 hours each way), went out on track and mopped the floor with nearly everything in my run group (I passed many M3s, Miatas, Mustangs, Z cars... mostly only got passed by some race prepped cars and better Corvettes). While there, nothing on my car broke. When it was cold, I had working climate control and could chill in there no problem. I did most of the event in 'Competitive Driving' mode as Road Atlanta has a lot of walls and can be scary, but when I went into everything off, I actually got faster and the car felt better.
Yep the C5 is the equivalent of a XJ in the off road field. It'll do what a 6x more expensive wrangler will do for most if not more as it is smaller.
Sort of, but the C5 is actually more reliable on track than most new shit, whereas an XJ seems to be a maintenance headache. It is a fair comparison though, both are highly capable, somewhat inexpensive, and total POS :lolol:
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D Griff wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:38 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:29 pm

Yep the C5 is the equivalent of a XJ in the off road field. It'll do what a 6x more expensive wrangler will do for most if not more as it is smaller.
Sort of, but the C5 is actually more reliable on track than most new shit, whereas an XJ seems to be a maintenance headache. It is a fair comparison though, both are highly capable, somewhat inexpensive, and total POS :lolol:
C5 has a ton of issues also... Leaky ass, EBCM modules popping... early oil consumption issues in the 00s. And Z06s popping their motors due to valve springs in my recollection. I think most cars have some sort of issue as such, the XJ in general i think would be a bit more reliable but they are all beaten to shit by their 8th owners and 200k+ miles, and most C5s are still benefiting from their geriatric first owners taking them on parades :like:
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D Griff wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:37 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:34 pm
Competitive Driving mode is better than it has any business being. I always did track stuff in that mode, it allows for an :impressive: amount of fun before intervening, and it saved my ass on a number of occasions.

I maintain that you'll be let down by anything else by comparison, espepcially with the prices of things these days. Switching to another car is just for the change of scenery, and fine as long as that's all you're looking for.
I did kind of like the Z car idea if staying with sports cars... but there was a 370 out there who was more or less on pace with me in corners (maybe a little slower) and I just destroyed him in the straights. Doesn't really make sense, but that is what happened. Maybe I was just exiting way better and carrying more speed, but it seemed like I was just walking him with stock powah.

Also, the Falken RT615K all around at 275 width is :impressive: as hell when it's not too hot. They start to give up a lot sooner in 75-80+ temps.
On paper, you have ~20hp on a 370. Weight is similar, so there was probably an element of more power, but more than likely it was driver. Getting on it earlier out of the turn can make all the difference, and it compounds because you're accelerating.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:46 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:37 pm

I did kind of like the Z car idea if staying with sports cars... but there was a 370 out there who was more or less on pace with me in corners (maybe a little slower) and I just destroyed him in the straights. Doesn't really make sense, but that is what happened. Maybe I was just exiting way better and carrying more speed, but it seemed like I was just walking him with stock powah.

Also, the Falken RT615K all around at 275 width is :impressive: as hell when it's not too hot. They start to give up a lot sooner in 75-80+ temps.
On paper, you have ~20hp on a 370. Weight is similar, so there was probably an element of more power, but more than likely it was driver. Getting on it earlier out of the turn can make all the difference, and it compounds because you're accelerating.
Over 100+ torque :doe:
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max225 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:06 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:46 pm
On paper, you have ~20hp on a 370. Weight is similar, so there was probably an element of more power, but more than likely it was driver. Getting on it earlier out of the turn can make all the difference, and it compounds because you're accelerating.
Over 100+ torque :doe:
Which peaks well before 4k

Accelerating down a straight is an HP play, unless lugging the engine down coming out of the corner, then the Vette would get the jump...and that's very possibly what happened if the 370z bro was in the wrong gear.

Comes down to the driver, I think a 370Z could be driven as fast as a C5 around a track.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:14 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:06 pm

Over 100+ torque :doe:
Which peaks well before 4k

Accelerating down a straight is an HP play, unless lugging the engine down coming out of the corner, then the Vette would get the jump...and that's very possibly what happened if the 370z bro was in the wrong gear.

Comes down to the driver, I think a 370Z could be driven as fast as a C5 around a track.
I agree.
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C5, 370z, and 996 are all going to be very similar track performance given equal drivers, IMO.
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max225 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:41 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:38 pm

Sort of, but the C5 is actually more reliable on track than most new shit, whereas an XJ seems to be a maintenance headache. It is a fair comparison though, both are highly capable, somewhat inexpensive, and total POS :lolol:
C5 has a ton of issues also... Leaky ass, EBCM modules popping... early oil consumption issues in the 00s. And Z06s popping their motors due to valve springs in my recollection. I think most cars have some sort of issue as such, the XJ in general i think would be a bit more reliable but they are all beaten to shit by their 8th owners and 200k+ miles, and most C5s are still benefiting from their geriatric first owners taking them on parades :like:
:notwrong: Most of the C5 issues are more of design flaws that are one and done type fixes (although I do have the stupid clutch issues as mentioned in the C5 thread). But my point is versus newer cars. Track Night In America always has all these guys in :fancy: new cars and they seem to always go into limp mode and have sensor failures and shit on track - they just aren't happy to be on track period. Things like AMG Mercs, Guilia QFs, Audis... I will say, while expensive to run, even the newest M cars seem to handle track shit well without any electronic tomfoolery ruining the day.
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Apex wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:23 pm C5, 370z, and 996 are all going to be very similar track performance given equal drivers, IMO.
That's what I would've thought as well. This guy looked to be driving pretty well but I guess he was just going through all the corners in 4th or something and bogging down coming out of them.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:26 pm
Apex wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:23 pm C5, 370z, and 996 are all going to be very similar track performance given equal drivers, IMO.
That's what I would've thought as well. This guy looked to be driving pretty well but I guess he was just going through all the corners in 4th or something and bogging down coming out of them.
Yea, my guess is he was avoiding the downshift in the corner, and lugging down on the exit, which cost time in a car down on the torque. A C5, you can drive almost without shifting with all that torque, but I found my car felt winded above 4,500.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Apex wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:23 pm C5, 370z, and 996 are all going to be very similar track performance given equal drivers, IMO.
Equal drivers that are equally comfortable with each car.

My C5 with stock gears actually liked being short shifted on the top end and lugging down to take advantage of torque out of corners. You'd do the opposite in a 370 and 996, and that's what I was more used to, and why I chased more HP and gears in my C5. Then never took the car on the track. :lolol:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:25 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:41 pm

C5 has a ton of issues also... Leaky ass, EBCM modules popping... early oil consumption issues in the 00s. And Z06s popping their motors due to valve springs in my recollection. I think most cars have some sort of issue as such, the XJ in general i think would be a bit more reliable but they are all beaten to shit by their 8th owners and 200k+ miles, and most C5s are still benefiting from their geriatric first owners taking them on parades :like:
:notwrong: Most of the C5 issues are more of design flaws that are one and done type fixes (although I do have the stupid clutch issues as mentioned in the C5 thread). But my point is versus newer cars. Track Night In America always has all these guys in :fancy: new cars and they seem to always go into limp mode and have sensor failures and shit on track - they just aren't happy to be on track period. Things like AMG Mercs, Guilia QFs, Audis... I will say, while expensive to run, even the newest M cars seem to handle track shit well without any electronic tomfoolery ruining the day.
M cars are great for the first 4 years. Then who knows... they are engineered with track in mind and tend to have very good cooling.
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Since you like the C5 so much, what about a corvette upgrade to a C6 Z06? Obviously it'll be similar in most areas but isn't the LS7 a bit more on the motorsports side?

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Gberg2119 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:54 pm Since you like the C5 so much, what about a corvette upgrade to a C6 Z06? Obviously it'll be similar in most areas but isn't the LS7 a bit more on the motorsports side?

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:lolol: I am being told the same thing in the :poorvette: thread. It is probably the way to go (C6 variant of some kind).
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