EV info/Shitposts + :Math:

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max225
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I wanted to kick this thread off for those who want to find out more about the costs of owning an EV.

Most of the info here is based on California so you'd have to check your local "rapes" on figuring out what it costs to run in your state. But it would be fairly straight forward.

Quick background... I was heavily considering a Model X, but couldn't justify the 100k price tag, unless it would yield major savings in certain ways. I have no real illusions of saving the planet by driving a vehicle that requires larges swaths of land to be destroyed in order to mine the lithium and be charged by the same ol natural gas/oil byproducts out of a power station vs a gas station. So this wasn't about nature for me, but more about the future.

But this may be informative to some...

Lets compare a simple 25MPG vehicle and $3 a gallon to a Tesla model 3.

The easiest way to compare consumption is not through the MPGe but mostly in costs per mile driven:
For example:

25mpg vehicle @ $3 ~ 12 cents per mile driven and at say 12000 miles a year it is about $1440 or $120 a month. Now some of you are in sub $2 a gallon states and get way above 25mpg... so keep that in mind for your :math:

Tesla model 3 consumption based on what I can find is approximately 2.5 miles per KWH. Some claim way better but that seems to be about right. it ranges between 2-3.5. But the higher end crowd doesn't go above 60mph and use any interior amenities.

Superchargers cost 25cents a KWH so ... that's about 10 cents per mile if you did straight line math.

However... when you go to "Charge it" you encounter transmission losses... So you usually are off by a factor of 15%. i.E you need to purchase 1.15 KWH to go the same 2.5 miles mentioned above. So you're effectively at 11.5 cents per mile at a parity with a 25mpg vehicle @$3 a gallon.

Now that brings us to the multiple variables.
Charging at public chargers can be as expensive as 80 cents per KHW, where most range between 35-55 unless you're doing it at tesla. That's the equivalent of paying $6-7 a gallon at the high end about $4-5 average. So BUYER BEWARE. Unless you're going with tesla.

Now googling "average costs per KWH" in your respective state is utterly useless as I found out.
They vary greatly... It claims it is 18 cents per KWH for California. However, it is actually closer to 30 once all the taxes and fees are added up.

Now our great state, does offer EV charging rates which are 17 cents per hr. But only from certain hours of the night, if you miss the window you're SOL ... for example 3-9pm is a whopping 50 cents per KWH.

Now for most people it requires a major adjustment and various tools can be used to charge between certain hours, tesla allows you to preselect WHEN you're charging. And the main way to save money would be to CHARGE AT HOME, after contacting your electric company and installing a $500-1500 charger.

There is no free lunch ya'll.

Let me know what you think.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/10 ... tery-holds
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Wow, this is 5/7.

Confirms my long-held point that you buy an EV because you WANT an EV...it's going to be a long time before it's cheaper than an equivalent gas car to own.

There's many benefits to buying an EV over a gas car, but many are dependent on region IMO.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:17 pm Wow, this is 5/7.

Confirms my long-held point that you buy an EV because you WANT an EV...it's going to be a long time before it's cheaper than an equivalent gas car to own.

There's many benefits to buying an EV over a gas car, but many are dependent on region IMO.
Yea there are a few variables like what type of EV you chose and their respective efficiencies. Time of day charging etc. But ground rules are about right...

Most Public chargers are $5-9 a gallon unless you go Tesla at which point you're at about $3 I guess that's the cliff notes...

At home charging is cheapest but requires an expensive charger + limited time of use (12am to 3pm)
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Nice read. Owning an electric car IMO really only makes sense if you have a charger at home, or wherever you park overnight, or can charge while at work. (covid need not apply)

HOWEVER I'm really starting to dig the Mach-E after hearing Matt Farah gush about it in multiple videos + his podcast.
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:25 pm Nice read. Owning an electric car IMO really only makes sense if you have a charger at home, or wherever you park overnight, or can charge while at work. (covid need not apply)

HOWEVER I'm really starting to dig the Mach-E after hearing Matt Farah gush about it in multiple videos + his podcast.
It does seem like a very decent vehicle. But lack of charging infrastructure is to be kept in mind.
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max225 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:28 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:25 pm Nice read. Owning an electric car IMO really only makes sense if you have a charger at home, or wherever you park overnight, or can charge while at work. (covid need not apply)

HOWEVER I'm really starting to dig the Mach-E after hearing Matt Farah gush about it in multiple videos + his podcast.
It does seem like a very decent vehicle. But lack of charging infrastructure is to be kept in mind.
Yes. Manufacturers really need to work together if they want to compete with Tesla because they never will if they can't catch up with the charging network.
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:32 pm
max225 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:28 pm

It does seem like a very decent vehicle. But lack of charging infrastructure is to be kept in mind.
Yes. Manufacturers really need to work together if they want to compete with Tesla because they never will if they can't catch up with the charging network.
I think some may want to "profiteer" from the EV Charging costs also. It doesn't take much to increase the cost... most EV owners don't really understand the cost of charging, and because they "top off" frequently and only add 1/5th or so of charge it really masks the costs.

Also most EVs' don't let you access the whole battery without some sort of "warning" of :doomed:

I.E say you have a Tesla with a 100kwh battery, you're never supposed to go above 80% and below 15% so your effective daily "range" is about 65% of that 100, so 65kwh... say it is advertised as 300 miles in range that makes it effectively 195 miles. Now you can say of course my gasoline car has the same issue as I never run it too low... however you can always fill to the top, unlike an EV.
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:32 pm
max225 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:28 pm

It does seem like a very decent vehicle. But lack of charging infrastructure is to be kept in mind.
Yes. Manufacturers really need to work together if they want to compete with Tesla because they never will if they can't catch up with the charging network.
OEMs or the .gov. This is the biggest hurdle to EV adoption IMO. I can't practically own one where live because of the lack of charging around my region and where I go.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:43 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:32 pm

Yes. Manufacturers really need to work together if they want to compete with Tesla because they never will if they can't catch up with the charging network.
OEMs or the .gov. This is the biggest hurdle to EV adoption IMO. I can't practically own one where live because of the lack of charging around my region and where I go.
In theory charging should be done at HOME 90% of the time. In practice it may not always work out... if you drove a lot the day prior or didn't want to pay for peak electricity rates.

I don't want the .gov involved in anything. They have proven to be utter failures at everything they touch over and over again.
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max225 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:45 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:43 pm
OEMs or the .gov. This is the biggest hurdle to EV adoption IMO. I can't practically own one where live because of the lack of charging around my region and where I go.
In theory charging should be done at HOME 90% of the time. In practice it may not always work out... if you drove a lot the day prior or didn't want to pay for peak electricity rates.

I don't want the .gov involved in anything. They have proven to be utter failures at everything they touch over and over again.
Well, they're forcing OEMs to make them through fines, soooooo demand needs to be improved in some way.

But I agree, I'd like to keep the .gov out, but there's just not much incentive for private companies to get into the charging business.

My challenge is where I live requires a lot of miles going places. I can EASILY eat up 300 miles in a day, and if my only charging option is at home (which it appears to be the case so far) I can only go so far.

I recognize that people in my case will be the last to adopt EV...but there's still progress to be made in less populated areas...and with the .gov forcing these things on people, it's rather :| to me.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:51 pm
max225 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:45 pm

In theory charging should be done at HOME 90% of the time. In practice it may not always work out... if you drove a lot the day prior or didn't want to pay for peak electricity rates.

I don't want the .gov involved in anything. They have proven to be utter failures at everything they touch over and over again.
Well, they're forcing OEMs to make them through fines, soooooo demand needs to be improved in some way.

But I agree, I'd like to keep the .gov out, but there's just not much incentive for private companies to get into the charging business.

My challenge is where I live requires a lot of miles going places. I can EASILY eat up 300 miles in a day, and if my only charging option is at home (which it appears to be the case so far) I can only go so far.

I recognize that people in my case will be the last to adopt EV...but there's still progress to be made in less populated areas...and with the .gov forcing these things on people, it's rather :| to me.
Yea if you go 300 miles a day... I wouldn't own an EV. That is seppuku personified. Even the quickest chargers will take you at least 45min...
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:43 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:32 pm

Yes. Manufacturers really need to work together if they want to compete with Tesla because they never will if they can't catch up with the charging network.
OEMs or the .gov. This is the biggest hurdle to EV adoption IMO. I can't practically own one where live because of the lack of charging around my region and where I go.
Yep I have the same problem. I live at the top purple dot, and work at the lower one.

Image
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max225 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:52 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:51 pm
Well, they're forcing OEMs to make them through fines, soooooo demand needs to be improved in some way.

But I agree, I'd like to keep the .gov out, but there's just not much incentive for private companies to get into the charging business.

My challenge is where I live requires a lot of miles going places. I can EASILY eat up 300 miles in a day, and if my only charging option is at home (which it appears to be the case so far) I can only go so far.

I recognize that people in my case will be the last to adopt EV...but there's still progress to be made in less populated areas...and with the .gov forcing these things on people, it's rather :| to me.
Yea if you go 300 miles a day... I wouldn't own an EV. That is seppuku personified. Even the quickest chargers will take you at least 45min...
I don't always, but it's easy to do. I guess that's where you just keep an ICE vehicle around for longer distances.

What makes me :lolol: the most are these "adventure" EV's like Rivian and Hummer. The places they claim to take these things are just completely unrealistic.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:55 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:43 pm
OEMs or the .gov. This is the biggest hurdle to EV adoption IMO. I can't practically own one where live because of the lack of charging around my region and where I go.
Yep I have the same problem. I live at the top purple dot, and work at the lower one.

Image
:lolol:

It's like they're avoiding you and your commute.

Here's around me (I'm at the heart)...

Image

A lot more Tesla than I expected, but these are almost always at :waxer: resorts and whatnot. Not sure what the open use policy is on those. Once you get out of the main city, there's a whole lot of nothing.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:00 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:55 pm

Yep I have the same problem. I live at the top purple dot, and work at the lower one.

Image
:lolol:

It's like they're avoiding you and your commute.

Here's around me (I'm at the heart)...

Image

A lot more Tesla than I expected, but these are almost always at :waxer: resorts and whatnot. Not sure what the open use policy is on those. Once you get out of the main city, there's a whole lot of nothing.

Nice sliver of land :jimp:
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:02 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:00 pm
:lolol:

It's like they're avoiding you and your commute.

Here's around me (I'm at the heart)...

Image

A lot more Tesla than I expected, but these are almost always at :waxer: resorts and whatnot. Not sure what the open use policy is on those. Once you get out of the main city, there's a whole lot of nothing.

Nice sliver of land :jimp:
Indeed. I :wub: it here. Some of the most unique geography in the region.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:04 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:02 pm


Nice sliver of land :jimp:
Indeed. I :wub: it here. Some of the most unique geography in the region.
How's the water for boating?
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Does Tesla still have their own proprietary plug, and are the other OEs still wavering between two different plug standards? If so, that's an issue.
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:06 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:04 pm
Indeed. I :wub: it here. Some of the most unique geography in the region.
How's the water for boating?
Epic! It's a bay of Lake Michigan which keeps the water somewhat calm, especially around our place. We have a boat slip with the house, just no boat to keep at it.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Huckleberry wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:08 pm Does Tesla still have their own proprietary plug, and are the other OEs still wavering between two different plug standards? If so, that's an issue.
Tesla has its own, most other OEMs are standardized. It would be an issue of Tesla didn't have such a robust charging network.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:16 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:06 pm

How's the water for boating?
Epic! It's a bay of Lake Michigan which keeps the water somewhat calm, especially around our place. We have a boat slip with the house, just no boat to keep at it.
:ayfkm:
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:56 pm
max225 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:52 pm
Yea if you go 300 miles a day... I wouldn't own an EV. That is seppuku personified. Even the quickest chargers will take you at least 45min...
I don't always, but it's easy to do. I guess that's where you just keep an ICE vehicle around for longer distances.

What makes me :lolol: the most are these "adventure" EV's like Rivian and Hummer. The places they claim to take these things are just completely unrealistic.
1 hr breaks every 200 miles is the only way to do this. Or about 25% of your time. 3 hrs to go 200 miles and 1 hr to charge ...
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:16 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:06 pm

How's the water for boating?
Epic! It's a bay of Lake Michigan which keeps the water somewhat calm, especially around our place. We have a boat slip with the house, just no boat to keep at it.
Would love to have a tritoon there.
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Thanks for doing the :math: , I'm not enamored with the idea of spiking electricity prices once the tipping point is achieved on consumption.

Curious to see what Hydrogen fuel developments come out in the next coming years, a neighbor practically won the lottery betting on hydrogen fuel stocks over the last year.

I'm good staying put, hopefully the lemmings will leap into electric tech and gas demand will drop further, reducing prices that are currently being offset by carbon taxes.
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:29 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:16 pm
Epic! It's a bay of Lake Michigan which keeps the water somewhat calm, especially around our place. We have a boat slip with the house, just no boat to keep at it.
Would love to have a tritoon there.
They are VERY popular.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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