Replacing the FiST: What does the collective say?

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D Griff
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[user not found] wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:53 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:48 pm ANy AMG with a V8 is pretty damn badass if you don't care about :manuel:

I never heard back from him on what level car constitutes "too flashy" for clients. Merc/BMW are not Porsche level, but still a bit :fancy: particularly for blue collar people that I assume make up the CUmmins customer base.
Yeah, any premium brand is a bit flashy. Also any :poorvette: is way too flashy.
I think mine has finally gotten old enough (guess it takes 3 generations) to no longer fit into that stereotype. Most people just ignore it or look at it disdainfully these days.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:48 pm ANy AMG with a V8 is pretty damn badass if you don't care about :manuel:

I never heard back from him on what level car constitutes "too flashy" for clients. Merc/BMW are not Porsche level, but still a bit :fancy: particularly for blue collar people that I assume make up the CUmmins customer base.
Anything “foreign” is pretty flashy for good parts of the country. The coasts have more 320is than covics :doe: so it is highly dependent on location.
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max225 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:14 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:11 pm

I think Fled has pretty much painted a used Panamera as a money pit of epic proportion.
If you're dumb enough to take it to a dealer and send the entire service department on a vacation every 30k miles sure.
Regardless of where you service it, they are performance vehicles with very aggressive maintenance intervals and requirements.

With shitty air suspension that fails after 6-8 years with $3500 air struts driven by a $5k compressor. V8 engines that grenade themselves and require $15k rebuilds. $4500 radios that fail. $700 AGM batteries you have to gut the interior to replace. $3k power steering racks... And no real availability of aftermarket parts, either.

All the dealers in the Philly area have labor rates in the $190-200/hr range. In NYC it’s over $220.

Indy shops that are Porsche specialists in my area are charging $170/hr and sourcing factory parts from dealers.

We don’t take advantage of people at my store (and I’m not saying that’s where you’re going with this)... The cars need what the cars need. Is it a problem that the cost of ownership/maintenance of a $100-200k vehicle scales with the price of the vehicle?
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fledonfoot wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:51 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:14 pm

If you're dumb enough to take it to a dealer and send the entire service department on a vacation every 30k miles sure.
Regardless of where you service it, they are performance vehicles with very aggressive maintenance intervals and requirements.

With shitty air suspension that fails after 6-8 years with $3500 air struts driven by a $5k compressor. V8 engines that grenade themselves and require $15k rebuilds. $4500 radios that fail. $700 AGM batteries you have to gut the interior to replace. $3k power steering racks... And no real availability of aftermarket parts, either.

All the dealers in the Philly area have labor rates in the $190-200/hr range. In NYC it’s over $220.

Indy shops that are Porsche specialists in my area are charging $170/hr and sourcing factory parts from dealers.

We don’t take advantage of people at my store (and I’m not saying that’s where you’re going with this)... The cars need what the cars need. Is it a problem that the cost of ownership/maintenance of a $100-200k vehicle scales with the price of the vehicle?
I think what I was trying to point out is that taking it to a dealer is a no go. Based of a few searches you can basically cut those parts costs by a factor of 5-10 of you go used/aftermarket. Because let’s be frank, a 30k Porsche is not worthy of a $4500 HU that’s robbery
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I’ll just rattle off a few to think about

Used Chevy SS (you can find :manuel: or auto depending on scenario uno or dos). LS3 rowdiness and all the practicality you could ever want. This would be a top contender if I were in your shoes with those requirements.

CPO TT RS (god-tier 5-banger than can be tuned straight to heaven and back)

Used GT350 if :manuel: allowed in scenario whatever

Maybe a S550 Roush Mustang? My :tits: ‘s dad just got a 2019 Stage 3 with 3k miles for $52k from a :dillerman: in NC. Very attainable. 710hp or something stupid like that. Comes with a warranty.

Lemme think of more...
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max225 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:53 pm
fledonfoot wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:51 pm

Regardless of where you service it, they are performance vehicles with very aggressive maintenance intervals and requirements.

With shitty air suspension that fails after 6-8 years with $3500 air struts driven by a $5k compressor. V8 engines that grenade themselves and require $15k rebuilds. $4500 radios that fail. $700 AGM batteries you have to gut the interior to replace. $3k power steering racks... And no real availability of aftermarket parts, either.

All the dealers in the Philly area have labor rates in the $190-200/hr range. In NYC it’s over $220.

Indy shops that are Porsche specialists in my area are charging $170/hr and sourcing factory parts from dealers.

We don’t take advantage of people at my store (and I’m not saying that’s where you’re going with this)... The cars need what the cars need. Is it a problem that the cost of ownership/maintenance of a $100-200k vehicle scales with the price of the vehicle?
I think what I was trying to point out is that taking it to a dealer is a no go. Based of a few searches you can basically cut those parts costs by a factor of 5-10 of you go used/aftermarket. Because let’s be frank, a 30k Porsche is not worthy of a $4500 HU that’s robbery
It’s not robbery, it’s supply and demand.

So that $30k Porsche is a 8 year old $120k Porsche. The car depreciates, while replacement parts do not.

To that end, a $10k Camry is an 8 year old $25k Camry. The head unit for that car is $1500 for a factory reman and $3500 for a new one.
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fledonfoot wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:20 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:53 pm

I think what I was trying to point out is that taking it to a dealer is a no go. Based of a few searches you can basically cut those parts costs by a factor of 5-10 of you go used/aftermarket. Because let’s be frank, a 30k Porsche is not worthy of a $4500 HU that’s robbery
It’s not robbery, it’s supply and demand.

So that $30k Porsche is a 8 year old $120k Porsche. The car depreciates, while replacement parts do not.

To that end, a $10k Camry is an 8 year old $25k Camry. The head unit for that car is $1500 for a factory reman and $3500 for a new one.
Don’t disagree with any of the above. However I am just pointing out that I would probably go the eBay route and get $250 HU that is used and working.

Used Luxo barges are cheap for this reason. Maintenance costs more than a lease on a new one if you take it to a dealer
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D Griff wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:48 pm ANy AMG with a V8 is pretty damn badass if you don't care about :manuel:

I never heard back from him on what level car constitutes "too flashy" for clients. Merc/BMW are not Porsche level, but still a bit :fancy: particularly for blue collar people that I assume make up the CUmmins customer base.
I guess I didn’t think I’d need to explain it :lol: you know as well as anyone how plebs perceive brands. It’s a spectrum - pCar > Merc > BMW > Audi.

I wouldn’t feel comfortable pulling into a client’s lot in a Porsche, but an equally expensive brodozer :truk: would be perfectly acceptable. As I said, it’s perception.
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RLWake wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:05 pm I’ll just rattle off a few to think about

Used Chevy SS (you can find :manuel: or auto depending on scenario uno or dos). LS3 rowdiness and all the practicality you could ever want. This would be a top contender if I were in your shoes with those requirements.

CPO TT RS (god-tier 5-banger than can be tuned straight to heaven and back)

Used GT350 if :manuel: allowed in scenario whatever

Maybe a S550 Roush Mustang? My :tits: ‘s dad just got a 2019 Stage 3 with 3k miles for $52k from a :dillerman: in NC. Very attainable. 710hp or something stupid like that. Comes with a warranty.

Lemme think of more...
:notbad:

Of those I’d probably lean towards the TT.

I have to listen to coyote mustangs all summer long and because of that I now hate them.
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4zilch wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:29 am
RLWake wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:05 pm I’ll just rattle off a few to think about

Used Chevy SS (you can find :manuel: or auto depending on scenario uno or dos). LS3 rowdiness and all the practicality you could ever want. This would be a top contender if I were in your shoes with those requirements.

CPO TT RS (god-tier 5-banger than can be tuned straight to heaven and back)

Used GT350 if :manuel: allowed in scenario whatever

Maybe a S550 Roush Mustang? My :tits: ‘s dad just got a 2019 Stage 3 with 3k miles for $52k from a :dillerman: in NC. Very attainable. 710hp or something stupid like that. Comes with a warranty.

Lemme think of more...
:notbad:

Of those I’d probably lean towards the TT.

I have to listen to coyote mustangs all summer long and because of that I now hate them.
:sad: GT350 is a very :neat: car.

Would you consider a Camaro variant? They aren't really my thing, but the performance is amazing, can be had in either transmission, and they should be mullet customer approved.
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D Griff wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:32 am
4zilch wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:29 am
:notbad:

Of those I’d probably lean towards the TT.

I have to listen to coyote mustangs all summer long and because of that I now hate them.
:sad: GT350 is a very :neat: car.

Would you consider a Camaro variant? They aren't really my thing, but the performance is amazing, can be had in either transmission, and they should be mullet customer approved.
meh. kinda ugly, yuge, useless trunk. Like moostangs, the people who generally own these kinda ruin it for me.
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D Griff
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That's fair. A Camaro is really the perfect car for me, but I just can't summon up much desire. :ohwell:
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D Griff wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:34 am That's fair. A Camaro is really the perfect car for me, but I just can't summon up much desire. :ohwell:
It's because there's too many compromises and the smaller/sportier Corvette is more practical. GM really screwed up the 6th gen for usability.

If it was a hatch, I'd own one.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:20 am
D Griff wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:34 am That's fair. A Camaro is really the perfect car for me, but I just can't summon up much desire. :ohwell:
It's because there's too many compromises and the smaller/sportier Corvette is more practical. GM really screwed up the 6th gen for usability.

If it was a hatch, I'd own one.
:dat: Now that I went full 4X4 on the Corvette, it is really rather practical for someone who doesn't really need rear seats.
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D Griff wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:26 am
Detroit wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:20 am
It's because there's too many compromises and the smaller/sportier Corvette is more practical. GM really screwed up the 6th gen for usability.

If it was a hatch, I'd own one.
:dat: Now that I went full 4X4 on the Corvette, it is really rather practical for someone who doesn't really need rear seats.
Calling the rear "seats" in the Camaro is :lolol: that's why it's so stupid to exist. The Vette replaces them with open space and a giant hatch to access it, really a better vehicle for usability.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:27 am
D Griff wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:26 am

:dat: Now that I went full 4X4 on the Corvette, it is really rather practical for someone who doesn't really need rear seats.
Calling the rear "seats" in the Camaro is :lolol: that's why it's so stupid to exist. The Vette replaces them with open space and a giant hatch to access it, really a better vehicle for usability.
Yeah, surveying 5th Gen owners on what they wanted to see in the 6th Gen was the stupidest idea GM had in a long while. Then they went full shocked Pikachu when only Camaro fanbois were buying the car tailored to Camaro fanbois, and even some of them jumped ship when they saw the pricetag.

Only GM could fuck up a car that performs so well.
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Alfa 4c is such a cool car, I have no idea how they fair with with towing duties/reliability :doe: , :[user not found]: waited two weeks for a replacement spark plug on a 10k one year old QF.
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You would think that they would have made sure the vehicle was spotless in the areas where they felt the need to take extreme close-up pictures.

Image

Image
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Huckleberry wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:39 am
You would think that they would have made sure the vehicle was spotless in the areas where they felt the need to take extreme close-up pictures.

Image

Image
Good help is hard to find. That button console is rediculous.
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Tarspin wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:36 am
Alfa 4c is such a cool car, I have no idea how they fair with with towing duties/reliability :doe: , :[user not found]: waited two weeks for a replacement spark plug on a 10k one year old QF.
Wouldn't tow with this. Towing duties would shift to the wife's SUV. I can buy spark plugs at autozone.
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You had me at the Jag (which is fantastic) until you brought up the 4C (which is fantastic-er). I spoke at length to an old German guy at a track event at VIR with a 4C. He had three-four years, 25K miles, and a bunch of track work on it and said he'd had zero issues. They are such gorgeous cars. Some reviews don't treat them kindly, but man, I don't think I would care.
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4zilch wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:12 am
Tarspin wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:36 am

Alfa 4c is such a cool car, I have no idea how they fair with with towing duties/reliability :doe: , :[user not found]: waited two weeks for a replacement spark plug on a 10k one year old QF.
Wouldn't tow with this. Towing duties would shift to the wife's SUV. I can buy spark plugs at autozone.
If I could pull this car off somehow, I would.
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Huckleberry wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:39 am
You would think that they would have made sure the vehicle was spotless in the areas where they felt the need to take extreme close-up pictures.

Image

Image
I had the same thought, lol.
:disgust:
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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4c is epic ...
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