Jeeponomics 201: Toledo Griff

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Much bigger than what?

It's directly in line with Explorer, Highlander, Pilot, Ascent, etc...actually a tad smaller than the Traverse, which is the largest in the segment.

Grand cherokee?

The current one, absolutely. It's a 3-row while the GC is a 2-row.

But the GC volume is pretty in the segment. There's a small subset of 2-row midsizers like the Edge, Acadia, and Murano but the GC vastly outsells them.

I'm a big fan of the 2-row midsize SUV. It's really a perfect size for a family of 3, maybe 4. Great cargo space, still maneuverable, fits in tight spaces, etc. The Edge we rented in CA in March was a great vehicle. I like the GC for the same reasons.

GC Trailhawk is what most people who buy a Wrangler should buy.

[max225]

Grand cherokee?

The current one, absolutely. It's a 3-row while the GC is a 2-row.

But the GC volume is pretty in the segment. There's a small subset of 2-row midsizers like the Edge, Acadia, and Murano but the GC vastly outsells them.

I'm a big fan of the 2-row midsize SUV. It's really a perfect size for a family of 3, maybe 4. Great cargo space, still maneuverable, fits in tight spaces, etc. The Edge we rented in CA in March was a great vehicle. I like the GC for the same reasons.

GC Trailhawk is what most people who buy a Wrangler should buy.

The only competitor to the GC is the new Passport. For some reason everyone went 3 row in the 30-50k segment. Which is IMO it leaves a big gap for someone who doesn't want an X5/G/Q5 but wants a more main stream brand and doesn't need the useless 3rd row that robs of trunk space and rear leg room.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

The current one, absolutely. It's a 3-row while the GC is a 2-row.

But the GC volume is pretty in the segment. There's a small subset of 2-row midsizers like the Edge, Acadia, and Murano but the GC vastly outsells them.

I'm a big fan of the 2-row midsize SUV. It's really a perfect size for a family of 3, maybe 4. Great cargo space, still maneuverable, fits in tight spaces, etc. The Edge we rented in CA in March was a great vehicle. I like the GC for the same reasons.

GC Trailhawk is what most people who buy a Wrangler should buy.

The only competitor to the GC is the new Passport. For some reason everyone went 3 row in the 30-50k segment. Which is IMO it leaves a big gap for someone who doesn't want an X5/G/Q5 but wants a more main stream brand and doesn't need the useless 3rd row that robs of trunk space and rear leg room.

Passport, Edge, Acadia, Blazer, Murano, Venza (that's back!)

It's a small sub-segment, but the volume is there.

But here in MURCA BIGGER IS BETTER so 3-row is the way.

[Devilchrono]

I dig them, and so does the wife. They're just so much $$$, and there's still that 'stigma' that comes with them; same with Buick sadly too.

Lincoln has massive progress to make with the brand. Ford invested insane money into the products, but the brand needs to catch up to command the prices. Unfortunately, premium brands are built over decades, not years. Unless you go full blast like Lexus did when launching in the 90's. As Max said, the dealer transformation has been but there's a lot more work to do.

Yup. I wish they were a little more affordable, cause I really like damn near everything about them except the cost and stigma; but at the right price, the stigma can certainly be overlooked.

That's why the wife likes them so much as well. Durango, Traverse, Explorer and Telluride all have the room she's looking for, in the size she wants, with the cargo capacity we need as a family when we travel. I like the size of them, and we both like the 3rd row. I'd love a larger SUV honestly, but the cost is stupid, and with only 1 kiddo, there's no need to go full

Yep, they're an ideal size for a family, hence the explosion in popularity. I've been working on the Jeep entrant for over a year now. I think it will be a strong player in the segment.

I'm very curious to see this new model then. Is it built on any existing platform, or will it be all new? Hesitant to pull the trigger on a first year model from any manufacturer honestly.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Lincoln has massive progress to make with the brand. Ford invested insane money into the products, but the brand needs to catch up to command the prices. Unfortunately, premium brands are built over decades, not years. Unless you go full blast like Lexus did when launching in the 90's. As Max said, the dealer transformation has been but there's a lot more work to do.

Yup. I wish they were a little more affordable, cause I really like damn near everything about them except the cost and stigma; but at the right price, the stigma can certainly be overlooked.

Yep, they're an ideal size for a family, hence the explosion in popularity. I've been working on the Jeep entrant for over a year now. I think it will be a strong player in the segment.

I'm very curious to see this new model then. Is it built on any existing platform, or will it be all new? Hesitant to pull the trigger on a first year model from any manufacturer honestly.

All-new. I'd wait a year or so.

[CaleDeRoo]

The only competitor to the GC is the new Passport. For some reason everyone went 3 row in the 30-50k segment. Which is IMO it leaves a big gap for someone who doesn't want an X5/G/Q5 but wants a more main stream brand and doesn't need the useless 3rd row that robs of trunk space and rear leg room.

Passport, Edge, Acadia, Blazer, Murano, Venza (that's back!)

It's a small sub-segment, but the volume is there.

But here in MURCA BIGGER IS BETTER so 3-row is the way.

Not that it matters but I would argue the Acadia is a class size up because of the third row and longer size. FWIW I thought the pre facelift Acadia looks amazing in Denali and All Terrain trim

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Passport, Edge, Acadia, Blazer, Murano, Venza (that's back!)

It's a small sub-segment, but the volume is there.

But here in MURCA BIGGER IS BETTER so 3-row is the way.

Not that it matters but I would argue the Acadia is a class size up because of the third row and longer size. FWIW I thought the pre facelift Acadia looks amazing in Denali and All Terrain trim

GM actually has 2 wheelbases for the Midsize crossovers. Acadia, Blazer, XT5 are on the short wheelbase, and the Enclave, Traverse, and XT6 are the long ones. The Acadia 3rd row is tiny.

[CaleDeRoo]

Not that it matters but I would argue the Acadia is a class size up because of the third row and longer size. FWIW I thought the pre facelift Acadia looks amazing in Denali and All Terrain trim

GM actually has 2 wheelbases for the Midsize crossovers. Acadia, Blazer, XT5 are on the short wheelbase, and the Enclave, Traverse, and XT6 are the long ones. The Acadia 3rd row is tiny.

Gotcha. I always folded the third row down when I rented them. Guess they just look much bigger visually than the two row GM products.

[D Griff]

the Bay Area is one city in a country with many more people. Average Joe's that live anywhere but LA, SF, NYC, Seattle, or DC with $200K household income are pretty damn rich. My household income is under that and we are rich and could easily go buy a new Suburban. Not saying it is bean counter approved, but it would be easy to do and cause no life backlash.

200k income with 2 kids and a house is nothing. Sure if you’re two single dudes making 200k and living in a $1200 a month Appartement then you can afford a 70k suv.
This has nothing to do with the Bay Area. Any decent urban area is about 350-500k for a house nowadays. I’d assume you want to house your near 100k vehicle In a garage.

Living paycheck to paycheck is not being able to “afford” anything. It’s a temporarily blip that may cause a relocation or liquidation of assets due to even the most minor distraction

So judgy about how people spend. People here certainly buy them, that's all I'm saying. Your average wealthy white families have them (which here is like > $150K/year household). How they manage their finances...

[max225]

200k income with 2 kids and a house is nothing. Sure if you’re two single dudes making 200k and living in a $1200 a month Appartement then you can afford a 70k suv.
This has nothing to do with the Bay Area. Any decent urban area is about 350-500k for a house nowadays. I’d assume you want to house your near 100k vehicle In a garage.

Living paycheck to paycheck is not being able to “afford” anything. It’s a temporarily blip that may cause a relocation or liquidation of assets due to even the most minor distraction

So judgy about how people spend. People here certainly buy them, that's all I'm saying. Your average wealthy white families have them (which here is like > $150K/year household). How they manage their finances...

It is just a general observation on affordability. Buying does not equal affording... which is why people go bankrupt constantly...

150k a year...
112.5 take home (@25% tax)
10% towards retirement
101k
~8k a month.
500k house is about
~4k a month all in.
which leaves 4k to spend on food/clothes/trips etc. $1500 a month on a single vehicle seems off here.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

GM actually has 2 wheelbases for the Midsize crossovers. Acadia, Blazer, XT5 are on the short wheelbase, and the Enclave, Traverse, and XT6 are the long ones. The Acadia 3rd row is tiny.

Gotcha. I always folded the third row down when I rented them. Guess they just look much bigger visually than the two row GM products.

Most people ride around with the 3rd row folded. It really only exists for .gov compliance reasons. The more passenger capacity for the footprint, the friendlier it is to the company's CAFE requirements.

[Devilchrono]

Yup. I wish they were a little more affordable, cause I really like damn near everything about them except the cost and stigma; but at the right price, the stigma can certainly be overlooked.



I'm very curious to see this new model then. Is it built on any existing platform, or will it be all new? Hesitant to pull the trigger on a first year model from any manufacturer honestly.

All-new. I'd wait a year or so.

Gottcha, thanks Detroit. I'll keep my eyes open for an announcement in the coming months then.

[CaleDeRoo]

[max225]

[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/qqpxdwjm/IMG-20200 ... 52.jpg[IMG]

:puke:

[ChrisoftheNorth]

[Devilchrono]

It'd probably sell more if they did this

[CaleDeRoo]

Edit

[Johnny_P]

Hm. Jeep van-UV looks pretty gaudy, and like a dressed up Durango. They'll sell a ton. I guess this is marketed to Escalade/Navigator buyers?

[CaleDeRoo]

Hm. Jeep van-UV looks pretty gaudy, and like a dressed up Durango. They'll sell a ton. I guess this is marketed to Escalade/Navigator buyers?

Grand Wagoneer = escalade
Wagoneer = tahoe

[Johnny_P]

Hm. Jeep van-UV looks pretty gaudy, and like a dressed up Durango. They'll sell a ton. I guess this is marketed to Escalade/Navigator buyers?

Grand Wagoneer = escalade
Wagoneer = tahoe

I want more / better options in 2 row land. GC is old as dirt. Passport is oddly shaped. Edge is a fraud and GM’s entries blow. Morono and Santa Fe are too pudgy.

[max225]

Can we talk about the wrangler 4xe ?

So the main downside I can find is the +500lbs over the 3.6 v6. But I’m really curious what sort of mpg it gets off the juice

[KYGTIGuy]

Need some advice. Have a friend who wants to tune a jeep patriot (his son wants it tuned) and is asking if this is legit. If not what is something to recommend?

https://www.amazon.com/Pedal-Commander- ... ep+Patriot




2011 Jeep Patriot 2.4L 4x4

[D Griff]

Grand Wagoneer = escalade
Wagoneer = tahoe

I want more / better options in 2 row land. GC is old as dirt. Passport is oddly shaped. Edge is a fraud and GM’s entries blow. Morono and Santa Fe are too pudgy.

But there are already so many options. I want more options in two seater land... lemme get an 86 competitor?

[D Griff]

Can we talk about the wrangler 4xe ?

So the main downside I can find is the +500lbs over the 3.6 v6. But I’m really curious what sort of mpg it gets off the juice

Looks but probably a hefty price tag for something that seems rather pointless. A regular 4 cylinder can already get 400 miles of range and it pretty quick to 60. Also, MPG isn't terrible at 21-24 real world. Curious to learn more for sure, but seems more complex to me and if that will be worth the price and long term reliability.

[CaleDeRoo]

Grand Wagoneer = escalade
Wagoneer = tahoe

I want more / better options in 2 row land. GC is old as dirt. Passport is oddly shaped. Edge is a fraud and GM’s entries blow. Morono and Santa Fe are too pudgy.

Bronc