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Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:18 am
by fledonfoot
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:39 am
fledonfoot wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:18 pm

Sheet metal, steering (for the worse... the BMW steering feels more direct), suspension (the Supra is a super neutrally balanced car), diff and trans tuning, and several hundred million dollars to fund the development. BMW can thank Toyota for the Z4.

I’ve driven both. They may be the same chassis but they have two different personalities and are two distinctly different cars... The difference between Z4 and Supra is far greater than the difference between BRZ and 86.

Is the 86 pathetic because it’s a Toyota tuned Subaru? The differences between those cars are much harder to spot than the Z4/Supra.

This is what I hate about armchair car enthusiasts. Toyota were damned either way with this thing... at Least they’ve brought a niche car to the market for the people that could afford it. It may not be fantastic but it’s a really, very good car for $50k. I hate to break it to you... the Mk4 Supra isn’t anything to write home about either.
Please also provide backup for this...

Here is an article

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos ... are-bmw-z4

Everything is BMW. There is perhaps only one unique part and that's it . :fax:
Overall, the front suspension on the Supra appears to be a mix of Z4 3.0i and M40i components with the lower control arm being the only unique part that impacts the chassis configuration.
Even the wheels have the same offsets and the Z4 and supra have the same track. I am :notsure: what point you're trying to make other than Arm chair quarterbacking yourself.

I have made one statement ... Supra=Z4. And that's why it sucks, this has nothing to do with the fact that it is fun to drive or whatever. I hate badge engineering, if this isn't it I don't know what it is. I am firmly standing by that statement.
I’ve armchair quarterbacked my way through 2 days of Supra training at Toyota’s NY HQ, 2 days of hands on service instruction, and then spent over $40k of my company’s money on specialty equipment to build a service bay for one at my dealership, as service manager of the highest volume Toyota service department in NJ.

It appears that I’m taking your comment that the Supra is the same as a Z4 a bit too literally then. I’m saying there are actual mechanical and software differences between the two that affect their character and the way they drive, which your article clearly states. Unfortunately I’m not allowed to share any of the training materials I’ve received outside of a Supra qualified employee at my store.

After all of this, at a dealership that sells 160-180 cars a month, we’ve sold 5 cars since July, while Toyota sold ~2900 nationwide. This is where my AQ comment came in and wasn’t directly aimed at you. Specialty cars have a specialty market, cost a fortune to develop and certify for multiple markets. They bring this car to market, and get slammed for it. They don’t bring it to market... and get slammed for it.

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:27 am
by Tar
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:22 am https://electrek.co/2020/02/17/porsche- ... e-florida/

Porsches pulling a Tesla.
Future headline: Porsche being sued again for falsely advertising a zero emissions car when clearly it lets off carbon! :lolol:

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:32 am
by max225
fledonfoot wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:18 am
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:39 am

Please also provide backup for this...

Here is an article

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos ... are-bmw-z4

Everything is BMW. There is perhaps only one unique part and that's it . :fax:



Even the wheels have the same offsets and the Z4 and supra have the same track. I am :notsure: what point you're trying to make other than Arm chair quarterbacking yourself.

I have made one statement ... Supra=Z4. And that's why it sucks, this has nothing to do with the fact that it is fun to drive or whatever. I hate badge engineering, if this isn't it I don't know what it is. I am firmly standing by that statement.
I’ve armchair quarterbacked my way through 2 days of Supra training at Toyota’s NY HQ, 2 days of hands on service instruction, and then spent over $40k of my company’s money on specialty equipment to build a service bay for one at my dealership, as service manager of the highest volume Toyota service department in NJ.

It appears that I’m taking your comment that the Supra is the same as a Z4 a bit too literally then. I’m saying there are actual mechanical and software differences between the two that affect their character and the way they drive, which your article clearly states. Unfortunately I’m not allowed to share any of the training materials I’ve received outside of a Supra qualified employee at my store.

After all of this, at a dealership that sells 160-180 cars a month, we’ve sold 5 cars since July, while Toyota sold ~2900 nationwide. This is where my AQ comment came in and wasn’t directly aimed at you. Specialty cars have a specialty market, cost a fortune to develop and certify for multiple markets. They bring this car to market, and get slammed for it. They don’t bring it to market... and get slammed for it.
Thanks for sharing the background. I figured you have more insider info that those following the car closely externally. Yea I think that's essentially disconnect between you and I, I was just hoping for a new Supra one that had nothing to do with what's available from a completely different manufacturer.

Toyota went the way of safe/reliable products as it's cornerstone, and I think myself and many other were hoping for a bit of a resurgence in "fun" when it comes to Japanese/Toyota offerings when the Supra was announced. There is no car on the market currently that is build to Toyota quality standards that offers FUN. And that's a real shame.

Sames goes with the lack of FJ/Cruiser and or it's current replacement. Customers and Future customers, value Toyotas industry leading QC and approach to making cars. I guess I was just pointing out that taking a BMW and using a X3 rack on a Z4 while making it a fixed roof, was causing customers a dis-service, I am sure the development cost 100s of millions these type of things always do, as you pointed out you have to gear up in order to service the new vehicle, for good reason, as it uses non common components not used in any other Toyota product.

That said I just wanted to see a new supra... that slated above an 86 but not in poorsche territory, and the current gen simply didn't do it for me. This is not to say it is bad car. I have had 6 bmws, more so than any mother marque, and I understand the positives and negatives that go with Bavarian Engineering ... the marriage with toyota just doesn't jive well with me because I feel like Toyota is doing a dis-service to itself and what it stands for. But ... that's my opinion. I am not saying it is the ultimate truth, and it is always interesting to have non hostile online discussions on why you think otherwise. :like:

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:42 am
by Tar
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:35 am https://jalopnik.com/an-electric-porsch ... 1841764760

More info on the Hot Porsche
I like how this article points out the relationship between Tesla car fires and media coverage. It is interesting news that peaks interest for many reasons, politics/and hatred for the brand not listed as one of them. 👏

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:22 am
by D Griff
There was a Supra at my track days last weekend absolutely hauling ass. FWIW it was keeping up with plenty of more expensive things with more powah.

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:32 am
by fledonfoot
D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:22 am There was a Supra at my track days last weekend absolutely hauling ass. FWIW it was keeping up with plenty of more expensive things with more powah.
The factory HP/TQ ratings are definitely under rated. The car hauls, and is really well balanced. It turns in and rotates nicely, and will just hold what you ask it to do. I just wish the steering felt a bit better, it’s a bit numb feeling.

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:51 pm
by Johnny_P
I want a Supra. Yellow. I do not want a Z4. :wrong:

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:52 pm
by D Griff
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:51 pm I want a Supra. Yellow. I do not want a Z4. :wrong:
I agree.

:notwrong:

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:21 pm
by Apex
Clown shoe FTW. / :bread:

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:45 pm
by D Griff
Apex wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:21 pm Clown shoe FTW. / :bread:
I would happily Supra before I Clownshoe'd.




:wrong:

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:48 pm
by Apex
D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:45 pm
Apex wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:21 pm Clown shoe FTW. / :bread:
I would happily Supra before I Clownshoe'd.




:wrong:
JDM fanboi. :sissyfight:

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:49 pm
by goIftdibrad
Apex wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:21 pm Clown shoe FTW. / :bread:
Image

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:49 pm
by Apex
Big Brain Bradley wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:49 pm
Apex wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:21 pm Clown shoe FTW. / :bread:
Image
:hellno:

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:52 pm
by Johnny_P
D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:45 pm
Apex wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:21 pm Clown shoe FTW. / :bread:
I would happily Supra before I Clownshoe'd.




:wrong:
You just want that digidash :datass:

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:53 pm
by Johnny_P
Apex wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:48 pm
D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:45 pm

I would happily Supra before I Clownshoe'd.




:wrong:
JDM fanboi. :sissyfight:
#metoo
Clownshoe did come in yellow tho IIRC

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:55 pm
by D Griff
Apex wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:48 pm
D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:45 pm

I would happily Supra before I Clownshoe'd.




:wrong:
JDM fanboi. :sissyfight:
:dat:

I :wub: ze JDM lyfe... I still want a Hype R pretty badly.

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:55 pm
by D Griff
I haven't had a FWD car in six years :doe:

Re: Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:56 pm
by troyguitar
For front engine heavy cars, I'd get an LS3 C6 every time. Targa+hatch=winning. Nothing else comes close.

I still kind of wish I'd gone for one, but overall I like the 86 experience a little bit more due to the quicker steering and cheaper parts and people ignoring it. Detroit Lambo Lyfe got old.

I worry that any poorsche would bring the same problem, so maybe the 86 is my final destination unless we move to CA.

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:04 pm
by Apex
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:53 pm
Apex wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:48 pm

JDM fanboi. :sissyfight:
#metoo
Clownshoe did come in yellow tho IIRC
Dakar yellow :megusta:

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:26 pm
by MexicanYarisTK
D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:55 pm I haven't had a FWD car in six years :doe:
:sad: had fwd all my life like most :millennial: fwd based awd doesn't count as an alternative. Except maybe on one slow ass rwd car when I learned with the learners permit

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:27 pm
by D Griff
MexicanYarisTK wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:26 pm
D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:55 pm I haven't had a FWD car in six years :doe:
:sad: had fwd all my life like most :millennial: fwd based awd doesn't count as an alternative. Except maybe on one slow ass rwd car when I learned with the learners permit
Get ze Camaro :doit: :megusta: :manuel: :burnout: :stig: :fuckyeah:

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:33 pm
by MexicanYarisTK
D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:27 pm
MexicanYarisTK wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:26 pm

:sad: had fwd all my life like most :millennial: fwd based awd doesn't count as an alternative. Except maybe on one slow ass rwd car when I learned with the learners permit
Get ze Camaro :doit: :megusta: :manuel: :burnout: :stig: :fuckyeah:
:notwrong:
I knew you'd chime in for :dat:

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:50 pm
by D Griff
MexicanYarisTK wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:33 pm
D Griff wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:27 pm

Get ze Camaro :doit: :megusta: :manuel: :burnout: :stig: :fuckyeah:
:notwrong:
I knew you'd chime in for :dat:
:mahtroy:

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:42 pm
by MexicanYarisTK

Car Talk 5: Qualified Service Advice

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:50 pm
by D Griff
Would be cool :plac: suppression if it weren't :disgust: Nissan.