Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!

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Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:44 am
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:39 am

Interesting. Their pricing looks decent.

Wondering if I should just get decent afermarket front rotors, and then a front pad set from Subaru. The set includes all the shims and paste needed to do the job. And would bring it back to OEM spec for like $300-400.
I'd go as OEM as possible and be done with it. Cost in mind, of course. You're not racing this thing, and the OEM stuff should have the ideal balance of performance and lifespan.
I didn't have a problem with the OE braking system. It was actually really great. Super firm and strong. Which I guess is mostly down to the pads in terms of feel. In terms of durability and no warping that's of course rotors... I'm not getting OE rotors since they're $400 each. I'd go aftermarket on them and get a pair for like $200-300 ish. The pads from Scoobydoo are $200 ish for the front axle set, and that sounds OK when you consider it's a full kit that includes everything needed to correct this fucked up installation.

Angry that I'm going to spend that much to fix a problem that was created by this shop and was entirely unnecessary.
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:46 am
Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:43 am
Holy shit dude :(

This is ridiculous and the last thing you need right now. Worthless scam shops are :|
And I was wrong on the mileage. 14,900.
There is zero chance it needed anything. They legitimately made the car worse and charged me for it.
NFW pads and rotors were a safety issue at 15k miles. That's :bs:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:49 am
Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:44 am
I'd go as OEM as possible and be done with it. Cost in mind, of course. You're not racing this thing, and the OEM stuff should have the ideal balance of performance and lifespan.
I didn't have a problem with the OE braking system. It was actually really great. Super firm and strong. Which I guess is mostly down to the pads in terms of feel. In terms of durability and no warping that's of course rotors... I'm not getting OE rotors since they're $400 each. I'd go aftermarket on them and get a pair for like $200-300 ish. The pads from Scoobydoo are $200 ish for the front axle set, and that sounds OK when you consider it's a full kit that includes everything needed to correct this fucked up installation.

Angry that I'm going to spend that much to fix a problem that was created by this shop and was entirely unnecessary.
Oof, go "cheap" on the rotors for sure, which would be just fine with OEM pads.

It's complete horseshit, but live and learn. Don't let this eat you up, just get it done and move on. Focus on other shit.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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JT turned over 13k miles yesterday. I've had it less than a year.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:52 am JT turned over 13k miles yesterday. I've had it less than a year.
:mindblown:

Willy’s is right around 9k miles. It’s such a cool vehicle, I love it.
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Apex wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:55 am
Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:52 am JT turned over 13k miles yesterday. I've had it less than a year.
:mindblown:

Willy’s is right around 9k miles. It’s such a cool vehicle, I love it.
:fuckyeah: Glad to hear it.

Wife took my JT downstate to get some stuff and work on the house. So I drove the JL the last few days. I really love that 2.0, and I think I prefer the drive in the JL to the JT in some ways.

But man, it felt good getting back in the JT. I love it so much.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:59 am
Apex wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:55 am

:mindblown:

Willy’s is right around 9k miles. It’s such a cool vehicle, I love it.
:fuckyeah: Glad to hear it.

Wife took my JT downstate to get some stuff and work on the house. So I drove the JL the last few days. I really love that 2.0, and I think I prefer the drive in the JL to the JT in some ways.

But man, it felt good getting back in the JT. I love it so much.
There’s just something about being in your own rig. :muah:
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Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:59 am
Apex wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:55 am

:mindblown:

Willy’s is right around 9k miles. It’s such a cool vehicle, I love it.
:fuckyeah: Glad to hear it.

Wife took my JT downstate to get some stuff and work on the house. So I drove the JL the last few days. I really love that 2.0, and I think I prefer the drive in the JL to the JT in some ways.

But man, it felt good getting back in the JT. I love it so much.
Which ways are they?
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Johnny_P wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:11 pm
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:02 pm

I think you're forgetting the times we live in. You don't have to stand for that shit, start a riot and firebomb that fucking place.



:trollface:


I know, on some level it would feel nice if that was something you could do, but we are civil and will take the fucking and just buy new OEM parts later to replace the rusted Kragen specials they put on. At least you're passing inspection, I guess.... The fire inside me is burning and I'm afraid that one day I may act the fool like everyone else and do some ridiculous shit.
I dunno man, I hate car ownership because I don't trust anyone. Lisa made a good point, it's likely that the lack of sleep made me less sharp on this.
Yep.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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max225 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:09 am
Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:59 am
:fuckyeah: Glad to hear it.

Wife took my JT downstate to get some stuff and work on the house. So I drove the JL the last few days. I really love that 2.0, and I think I prefer the drive in the JL to the JT in some ways.

But man, it felt good getting back in the JT. I love it so much.
Which ways are they?
I love the torque from the 2.0, the thing feels legit quick when taking off...yesterday I gunned it leaving a gas station and the tires broke loose and the back end stepped out a bit before ESC kicked in. Was :lolol: Part of that had to be the mild hybrid adding torque from take-off to 1.8k and the ESS works great without being able to detect when it shuts off and restarts. It's just a great engine. Only thing I really don't care for is the sound...it's awfully whiny sounding, but it's not obnoxious, so whatever. The 3.6 in the JT sounds a lot better, but less torque and being a truck, quite a bit slower due to weight. The 3.6L really needs to wind out to make power, which seems weird in a truck. I'd much rather have the 2.0 in it.

Ours is a Sahara with the factory headliner option, and it's noticeably quieter and more comfortable to drive around. The tires have a lot to do with that as well, which being the more aggressive option the Sahara look good, but are nice and quiet. The AT's on the JT Rubicon are getting a bit noisier, but not bad, and you can feel them a bit when coming to a stop, which is common for that type of tire. I think the JT still rides better over bumps because of the wheelbase, but the JLUS is a really compliant ride. I think the shocks or something is smoother feeling in the JLUS, hard to describe, but I really like it.

Everyone goes straight to Rubicon then :baby: :pout: about ride and noise. The Sahara is the answer, but not many consider it because it's not "the best" or whatever. I personally think it looks awesome with the optional 18's and more aggressive tire option, the best of all worlds. For looks, I just wish ours was a color (Bikini), but wife loves the white so :aintcare:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:33 am
max225 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:09 am

Which ways are they?
I love the torque from the 2.0, the thing feels legit quick when taking off...yesterday I gunned it leaving a gas station and the tires broke loose and the back end stepped out a bit before ESC kicked in. Was :lolol: Part of that had to be the mild hybrid adding torque from take-off to 1.8k and the ESS works great without being able to detect when it shuts off and restarts. It's just a great engine. Only thing I really don't care for is the sound...it's awfully whiny sounding, but it's not obnoxious, so whatever. The 3.6 in the JT sounds a lot better, but less torque and being a truck, quite a bit slower due to weight. The 3.6L really needs to wind out to make power, which seems weird in a truck. I'd much rather have the 2.0 in it.

Ours is a Sahara with the factory headliner option, and it's noticeably quieter and more comfortable to drive around. The tires have a lot to do with that as well, which being the more aggressive option the Sahara look good, but are nice and quiet. The AT's on the JT Rubicon are getting a bit noisier, but not bad, and you can feel them a bit when coming to a stop, which is common for that type of tire. I think the JT still rides better over bumps because of the wheelbase, but the JLUS is a really compliant ride. I think the shocks or something is smoother feeling in the JLUS, hard to describe, but I really like it.

Everyone goes straight to Rubicon then :baby: :pout: about ride and noise. The Sahara is the answer, but not many consider it because it's not "the best" or whatever. I personally think it looks awesome with the optional 18's and more aggressive tire option, the best of all worlds. For looks, I just wish ours was a color (Bikini), but wife loves the white so :aintcare:
Yea makes perfect sense. It’s cool that you have both vehicles to compare side by side. I was really curious about the 2.slow but was weary of the low displacement. I.e this is a bit apples to oranges but the same 2.slow in the 3 series that is 3400-3500lbs feels terrible compared to my car at 2700lbs.

JLU @ 4500lbs or so got me wondering if it stresses that little motor a bit but it seems like FCA got it sorted !

I always thought the oem tires/tuning were excellent and I really didn’t mind the K02s. Excellent vehicle dynamics considering all the off road gear.
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:49 am
Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:44 am
I'd go as OEM as possible and be done with it. Cost in mind, of course. You're not racing this thing, and the OEM stuff should have the ideal balance of performance and lifespan.
I didn't have a problem with the OE braking system. It was actually really great. Super firm and strong. Which I guess is mostly down to the pads in terms of feel. In terms of durability and no warping that's of course rotors... I'm not getting OE rotors since they're $400 each. I'd go aftermarket on them and get a pair for like $200-300 ish. The pads from Scoobydoo are $200 ish for the front axle set, and that sounds OK when you consider it's a full kit that includes everything needed to correct this fucked up installation.

Angry that I'm going to spend that much to fix a problem that was created by this shop and was entirely unnecessary.
Since OEM is known to be good and is already installed on the rear, I'd stick with OEM pads in the front unless you wanted to change all 4 corners for some reason. Stoptech Sport pads are good for many uses but they are a bad idea for you (and now me) because we don't drive often enough. Their compound is prone to leaving significant deposits on the rotors when cars are left sitting for long periods of time, you really need to be driving a few times a week to use those.

Centric "Premium" rotors and KNS as a vendor are great choices, I've used both many times now and never had a single issue.

If you search the Subaru part number for the OEM pad set on ebay you might find it significantly cheaper.
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max225 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:49 am
Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:33 am
I love the torque from the 2.0, the thing feels legit quick when taking off...yesterday I gunned it leaving a gas station and the tires broke loose and the back end stepped out a bit before ESC kicked in. Was :lolol: Part of that had to be the mild hybrid adding torque from take-off to 1.8k and the ESS works great without being able to detect when it shuts off and restarts. It's just a great engine. Only thing I really don't care for is the sound...it's awfully whiny sounding, but it's not obnoxious, so whatever. The 3.6 in the JT sounds a lot better, but less torque and being a truck, quite a bit slower due to weight. The 3.6L really needs to wind out to make power, which seems weird in a truck. I'd much rather have the 2.0 in it.

Ours is a Sahara with the factory headliner option, and it's noticeably quieter and more comfortable to drive around. The tires have a lot to do with that as well, which being the more aggressive option the Sahara look good, but are nice and quiet. The AT's on the JT Rubicon are getting a bit noisier, but not bad, and you can feel them a bit when coming to a stop, which is common for that type of tire. I think the JT still rides better over bumps because of the wheelbase, but the JLUS is a really compliant ride. I think the shocks or something is smoother feeling in the JLUS, hard to describe, but I really like it.

Everyone goes straight to Rubicon then :baby: :pout: about ride and noise. The Sahara is the answer, but not many consider it because it's not "the best" or whatever. I personally think it looks awesome with the optional 18's and more aggressive tire option, the best of all worlds. For looks, I just wish ours was a color (Bikini), but wife loves the white so :aintcare:
Yea makes perfect sense. It’s cool that you have both vehicles to compare side by side. I was really curious about the 2.slow but was weary of the low displacement. I.e this is a bit apples to oranges but the same 2.slow in the 3 series that is 3400-3500lbs feels terrible compared to my car at 2700lbs.

JLU @ 4500lbs or so got me wondering if it stresses that little motor a bit but it seems like FCA got it sorted !

I always thought the oem tires/tuning were excellent and I really didn’t mind the K02s. Excellent vehicle dynamics considering all the off road gear.
I think transmission gearing goes a LONG WAY with compensating for the relatively low output and high vehicle weight. That transmission is absolutely phenomenal, and tuned perfectly to either engine.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:25 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:11 pm

I dunno man, I hate car ownership because I don't trust anyone. Lisa made a good point, it's likely that the lack of sleep made me less sharp on this.
I get it, and she's probably right. I've been having kinda crappy sleep lately and it is without a doubt impacting me. I also am kind of done with cars... at least new expensive ones. I get pretty OCD over taking care of them and any minor issue really bugs me.
:dat: This is why I love my C5, it's so fun to drive still and is great on the track, still reliable, etc. Sure, it's a shit box and I could afford a better car, but we have the JLU for long trip with the family and it is really gratifying as a car dude to not care about my car a ton. I still wash it, maintain it, etc. but scratches and whatnot are :ohwell:
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Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:33 am
max225 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:09 am

Which ways are they?
I love the torque from the 2.0, the thing feels legit quick when taking off...yesterday I gunned it leaving a gas station and the tires broke loose and the back end stepped out a bit before ESC kicked in. Was :lolol: Part of that had to be the mild hybrid adding torque from take-off to 1.8k and the ESS works great without being able to detect when it shuts off and restarts. It's just a great engine. Only thing I really don't care for is the sound...it's awfully whiny sounding, but it's not obnoxious, so whatever. The 3.6 in the JT sounds a lot better, but less torque and being a truck, quite a bit slower due to weight. The 3.6L really needs to wind out to make power, which seems weird in a truck. I'd much rather have the 2.0 in it.

Ours is a Sahara with the factory headliner option, and it's noticeably quieter and more comfortable to drive around. The tires have a lot to do with that as well, which being the more aggressive option the Sahara look good, but are nice and quiet. The AT's on the JT Rubicon are getting a bit noisier, but not bad, and you can feel them a bit when coming to a stop, which is common for that type of tire. I think the JT still rides better over bumps because of the wheelbase, but the JLUS is a really compliant ride. I think the shocks or something is smoother feeling in the JLUS, hard to describe, but I really like it.

Everyone goes straight to Rubicon then :baby: :pout: about ride and noise. The Sahara is the answer, but not many consider it because it's not "the best" or whatever. I personally think it looks awesome with the optional 18's and more aggressive tire option, the best of all worlds. For looks, I just wish ours was a color (Bikini), but wife loves the white so :aintcare:
Which tires are on the Sahara? I liked the minivan tires on the Sport more than the All Terrains on our Freedumb :lolol: :wrong:
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max225 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:49 am
Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:33 am
I love the torque from the 2.0, the thing feels legit quick when taking off...yesterday I gunned it leaving a gas station and the tires broke loose and the back end stepped out a bit before ESC kicked in. Was :lolol: Part of that had to be the mild hybrid adding torque from take-off to 1.8k and the ESS works great without being able to detect when it shuts off and restarts. It's just a great engine. Only thing I really don't care for is the sound...it's awfully whiny sounding, but it's not obnoxious, so whatever. The 3.6 in the JT sounds a lot better, but less torque and being a truck, quite a bit slower due to weight. The 3.6L really needs to wind out to make power, which seems weird in a truck. I'd much rather have the 2.0 in it.

Ours is a Sahara with the factory headliner option, and it's noticeably quieter and more comfortable to drive around. The tires have a lot to do with that as well, which being the more aggressive option the Sahara look good, but are nice and quiet. The AT's on the JT Rubicon are getting a bit noisier, but not bad, and you can feel them a bit when coming to a stop, which is common for that type of tire. I think the JT still rides better over bumps because of the wheelbase, but the JLUS is a really compliant ride. I think the shocks or something is smoother feeling in the JLUS, hard to describe, but I really like it.

Everyone goes straight to Rubicon then :baby: :pout: about ride and noise. The Sahara is the answer, but not many consider it because it's not "the best" or whatever. I personally think it looks awesome with the optional 18's and more aggressive tire option, the best of all worlds. For looks, I just wish ours was a color (Bikini), but wife loves the white so :aintcare:
Yea makes perfect sense. It’s cool that you have both vehicles to compare side by side. I was really curious about the 2.slow but was weary of the low displacement. I.e this is a bit apples to oranges but the same 2.slow in the 3 series that is 3400-3500lbs feels terrible compared to my car at 2700lbs.

JLU @ 4500lbs or so got me wondering if it stresses that little motor a bit but it seems like FCA got it sorted !

I always thought the oem tires/tuning were excellent and I really didn’t mind the K02s. Excellent vehicle dynamics considering all the off road gear.
:iono: My BMW was pretty darn quick... :notsure: what the issue is. I also drove the two :jeep: back to back and I think the 2.0T performs a bit better, the low end torque is nice. Also, we get pretty good MPGeeez. That said, it sounds like shit and probably won't last as long, so kind of a wash in my opinion.
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troyguitar wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:49 am
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:49 am

I didn't have a problem with the OE braking system. It was actually really great. Super firm and strong. Which I guess is mostly down to the pads in terms of feel. In terms of durability and no warping that's of course rotors... I'm not getting OE rotors since they're $400 each. I'd go aftermarket on them and get a pair for like $200-300 ish. The pads from Scoobydoo are $200 ish for the front axle set, and that sounds OK when you consider it's a full kit that includes everything needed to correct this fucked up installation.

Angry that I'm going to spend that much to fix a problem that was created by this shop and was entirely unnecessary.
Since OEM is known to be good and is already installed on the rear, I'd stick with OEM pads in the front unless you wanted to change all 4 corners for some reason. Stoptech Sport pads are good for many uses but they are a bad idea for you (and now me) because we don't drive often enough. Their compound is prone to leaving significant deposits on the rotors when cars are left sitting for long periods of time, you really need to be driving a few times a week to use those.

Centric "Premium" rotors and KNS as a vendor are great choices, I've used both many times now and never had a single issue.

If you search the Subaru part number for the OEM pad set on ebay you might find it significantly cheaper.
:notwrong: I have been really happy with Centric/Stoptech combo, but would stick with OEM pads.

The situation sucks, but don't beat yourself up, Johnny. We all make fuckups, I spent hundreds on a shop trouble shooting my braking system on the :poorvette: because I put the calipers on upside down. We all fuck up sadly, and you have a ton on your plate.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:02 pm
max225 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:49 am

Yea makes perfect sense. It’s cool that you have both vehicles to compare side by side. I was really curious about the 2.slow but was weary of the low displacement. I.e this is a bit apples to oranges but the same 2.slow in the 3 series that is 3400-3500lbs feels terrible compared to my car at 2700lbs.

JLU @ 4500lbs or so got me wondering if it stresses that little motor a bit but it seems like FCA got it sorted !

I always thought the oem tires/tuning were excellent and I really didn’t mind the K02s. Excellent vehicle dynamics considering all the off road gear.
:iono: My BMW was pretty darn quick... :notsure: what the issue is. I also drove the two :jeep: back to back and I think the 2.0T performs a bit better, the low end torque is nice. Also, we get pretty good MPGeeez. That said, it sounds like shit and probably won't last as long, so kind of a wash in my opinion.
It is relative, drive a car that has 400-600lbs less weight and with the same motor and it is transformative. After all a lotus elise has a corolla engine and they are nothing alike.
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max225 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:08 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:02 pm

:iono: My BMW was pretty darn quick... :notsure: what the issue is. I also drove the two :jeep: back to back and I think the 2.0T performs a bit better, the low end torque is nice. Also, we get pretty good MPGeeez. That said, it sounds like shit and probably won't last as long, so kind of a wash in my opinion.
It is relative, drive a car that has 400-600lbs less weight and with the same motor and it is transformative. After all a lotus elise has a corolla engine and they are nothing alike.
I get it, but I do think that calling it bad is :wrong: , it is a quick car, just not a genuinely fast car, but it's also a base dad wagon. The FCA 2.0T feels similar and honestly propels the :jeep: very well, I find the vehicle can get scary pretty easily given it's ox-cart nature, can't imagine why we would want more in it.

Definitely agree that a light MINI is more fun than a 328i...but it's kind of apples and oranges.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:00 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:33 am
I love the torque from the 2.0, the thing feels legit quick when taking off...yesterday I gunned it leaving a gas station and the tires broke loose and the back end stepped out a bit before ESC kicked in. Was :lolol: Part of that had to be the mild hybrid adding torque from take-off to 1.8k and the ESS works great without being able to detect when it shuts off and restarts. It's just a great engine. Only thing I really don't care for is the sound...it's awfully whiny sounding, but it's not obnoxious, so whatever. The 3.6 in the JT sounds a lot better, but less torque and being a truck, quite a bit slower due to weight. The 3.6L really needs to wind out to make power, which seems weird in a truck. I'd much rather have the 2.0 in it.

Ours is a Sahara with the factory headliner option, and it's noticeably quieter and more comfortable to drive around. The tires have a lot to do with that as well, which being the more aggressive option the Sahara look good, but are nice and quiet. The AT's on the JT Rubicon are getting a bit noisier, but not bad, and you can feel them a bit when coming to a stop, which is common for that type of tire. I think the JT still rides better over bumps because of the wheelbase, but the JLUS is a really compliant ride. I think the shocks or something is smoother feeling in the JLUS, hard to describe, but I really like it.

Everyone goes straight to Rubicon then :baby: :pout: about ride and noise. The Sahara is the answer, but not many consider it because it's not "the best" or whatever. I personally think it looks awesome with the optional 18's and more aggressive tire option, the best of all worlds. For looks, I just wish ours was a color (Bikini), but wife loves the white so :aintcare:
Which tires are on the Sahara? I liked the minivan tires on the Sport more than the All Terrains on our Freedumb :lolol: :wrong:
The freedumb has rather aggressive tires for looks. They're not far off from an AT tire on Rubicons.

Our Sahara has Goodyear Wrangler Adventure AT's:

https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires/wr ... -adventure

SUPER tame for an AT...they're probably the least aggressive AT on the market.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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max225 wrote:
D Griff wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:02 pm :iono: My BMW was pretty darn quick... :notsure: what the issue is. I also drove the two :jeep: back to back and I think the 2.0T performs a bit better, the low end torque is nice. Also, we get pretty good MPGeeez. That said, it sounds like shit and probably won't last as long, so kind of a wash in my opinion.
It is relative, drive a car that has 400-600lbs less weight and with the same motor and it is transformative. After all a lotus elise has a corolla engine and they are nothing alike.
:notwrong:

My MR2 felt great with 135 hp because it was 21xx lbs and had super short gearing.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:12 pm
max225 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:08 pm
It is relative, drive a car that has 400-600lbs less weight and with the same motor and it is transformative. After all a lotus elise has a corolla engine and they are nothing alike.
I get it, but I do think that calling it bad is :wrong: , it is a quick car, just not a genuinely fast car, but it's also a base dad wagon. The FCA 2.0T feels similar and honestly propels the :jeep: very well, I find the vehicle can get scary pretty easily given it's ox-cart nature, can't imagine why we would want more in it.

Definitely agree that a light MINI is more fun than a 328i...but it's kind of apples and oranges.
Right and the JL the same size motor as the bmw and another 700lbs on top of that ... but it sounds like fca did a decent job with it so it seems adequate.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:12 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:00 pm

Which tires are on the Sahara? I liked the minivan tires on the Sport more than the All Terrains on our Freedumb :lolol: :wrong:
The freedumb has rather aggressive tires for looks. They're not far off from an AT tire on Rubicons.

Our Sahara has Goodyear Wrangler Adventure AT's:

https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires/wr ... -adventure

SUPER tame for an AT...they're probably the least aggressive AT on the market.
:word: I will probably look at those when these wear out in five years. The ones we haven't haven't been too noisy, just wander more on the highway compared to the minivan units. They have handled the few off road adventures well though, hopefully we will do more of that from time to time.
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max225 wrote:
D Griff wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:12 pm I get it, but I do think that calling it bad is :wrong: , it is a quick car, just not a genuinely fast car, but it's also a base dad wagon. The FCA 2.0T feels similar and honestly propels the :jeep: very well, I find the vehicle can get scary pretty easily given it's ox-cart nature, can't imagine why we would want more in it.

Definitely agree that a light MINI is more fun than a 328i...but it's kind of apples and oranges.
Right and the JL the same size motor as the bmw and another 700lbs on top of that ... but it sounds like fca did a decent job with it so it seems adequate.
Short 1st gear plus 4WD and additional electric torque on the hybrids probably makes it feel pretty good off the line.

I remember even my 4500 lb automatic allroad was actually really good off the line with the combo of AWD, short 1st gear, and an aggressive torque converter on the ZF slushbox. Performance fell off quickly once it got to 2nd or 3rd gear, but around town it felt fast.
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troyguitar wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:20 pm
max225 wrote:
Right and the JL the same size motor as the bmw and another 700lbs on top of that ... but it sounds like fca did a decent job with it so it seems adequate.
Short 1st gear plus 4WD and additional electric torque on the hybrids probably makes it feel pretty good off the line.

I remember even my 4500 lb automatic allroad was actually really good off the line with the combo of AWD, short 1st gear, and an aggressive torque converter on the ZF slushbox. Performance fell off quickly once it got to 2nd or 3rd gear, but around town it felt fast.
Yea even the mini gets a bit wheezy at 60mph+ :gaydance:

Which reminds me I gotta really drive it more, I have been in the terrorist :truk: too long.
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