Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!

[HerrBerlin]

I honestly feel a little guilty buying a $40k civic even though it's well within comfort for our income/savings and it won't depreciate. And then there are people like my brother, who lives with my parents making ~$85k/year but leases a 2020 M4 and just bought a 2021 Crosstrek for a daily.

I still live in a pretty small apartment because buying here means at least doubling our monthly housing costs and that's a hard pill to swallow.

Everyone has their own tolerances for what they value, it's all about balance IMO. I'd rather be poor with nothing living on my own than rolling in a car living with my parents. But I value independence more than anything, that's not for everyone.

You and me both!

[troyguitar]

I mean if I "only" made $85k in Seattle I'd have to live with my parents too... Hopefully they'd leave the house to me eventually.

[max225]

4Cyl is and I believe it devalues the brand. It's a Porsche in every way but the engine.

Oil every 10k, brake fluid every 20, spark plugs every 30, PDK fluid, air filters every 40. You'll chew through rear tires in 25-30k and fronts in about 35. Brakes every 30-35 requiring pad/rotor swaps.

3.0L V6 S/GTS models are developing timing cover leaks requiring engine out repairs. Most have been repaired under warranty as they typically fail around 20k miles and have been caught by the dealer and repaired already, but I still get cars that have been to indy shops all their lives and show up here out of warranty needing a $4500 repair.

If you're worried about the unexpected repairs, buy an extended warranty from a company like Safeguard or CNA that will cover dealer labor rates if you're not buying from a Porsche dealer. Buy CPO if you are - 2 years of additional warranty with unlimited mileage on drivetrain/safety items once the factory 4/50 expires. My labor rate is $195/hr and in the NY and LA area you're easily into the 230-240 range. Parts are expensive. Labor is too, and it adds up quickly. Repair manuals also call for most of the hardware used to be replaced during a repair as they are considered one time use parts. Make sure that is something the warranty covers, too, as hardware can add up.

Thanks for this! We don't have a Porsche dealer within 150 miles, so it's a non starter for us. I'll assume that any used one within our price range (sub-$40k) is garbage.

Going from a JL to Macan ?

[wap]

Not to mention, even appliances have gotten better dynamically. There's basically no such thing as "shitty" cars anymore other than mitsubishi.

Whenever I talk to my parents about Skoda, they'll go because when they grew up it used to be cars for the poverty and shitty busses, now that they're owned by VW, they're rather a little more upscale cars. I am like that in Hyundai's, because I've been in those hyundai accent cabs growing up and I know how the dash is more like fisher price, plus one of my friends dad had the Hyundai Excel (first one made) when I was a kid and it was a complete pile. The new line-up are completely opposite, I rented one overseas and it drives on par as my mk6, i've been in santa fe, elanta, and ioniq as ubers, also decent quality too. But i'd still won't get one and GDI engines have flaws that causes :hibatchi: situations.

Not too long ago, phones weren't that expensive either, I remember when I bought my iphone 3g, it was only $200, now? forget it! I remember reading an article saying "my parents had a $100,000 salary and now that I make that much, I don't think I am rich" or somewhere along those lines.

Skoda is a rebadged VW, with all the same internals built in the same plants (i.e. engines/etc), and the Czechs can run weld shops as well as the next guy. Heck the T-reg/Q7/Q8/Cayenne are built in Bratislava, and I can't imagine that the Czechs are any better or worse at building cars then the Slovaks, or Germans for that matter. Both my T-reg and R are holding up exceptionally well for 4+ yr old cars. I'd buy a Skoda Octavia to save a few bucks over a VW sportwagen or whatever the equivalents are in the EU.

Or their Seat equivalent.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Thanks for this! We don't have a Porsche dealer within 150 miles, so it's a non starter for us. I'll assume that any used one within our price range (sub-$40k) is garbage.

Going from a JL to Macan ?

Just keeping options open.

Right now, she really wants a Crosstrek. I'm trying to push for something a little more fun like a Countryman or something along the lines of Macan. I'm too poor for that though.

[HerrBerlin]

I mean if I "only" made $85k in Seattle I'd have to live with my parents too... Hopefully they'd leave the house to me eventually.

They live in SoCal, but the cost of living is basically the same.

$85k in Seattle would honesly be okay assuming no children and never owning property. You wouldn't live lavishly, but you'd get by just fine and have some spending money.

[D Griff]

I am pretty continually amazed by the houses and cars around here. Like, a. what do these people do for a living to have so many thousands of seven figure home in Charlotte? B. Why do people spend six figures on cars that clearly don't even give a shit about cars?

I think I am just more conservative/have different priorities than most, I guess many in our household income bracket buy $500-700K houses in Charlotte where we went for the poverty 1100 sq. ft. no garage life.

I wonder this too. I assume that people are comfortable with WAY more debt than I am.

A close friend of mine just bought a new-to-them house in Raleigh for ~$650K. He makes around the same I do I'm pretty sure, his wife doesn't work anymore, and they have ... I just can' imagine taking on that 2X house debt in that scenario. I am certainly the "breadwinner" here but my wife still makes an OK salary and if she just stopped working, we would certainly have to budget a lot more carefully, probably not have a brand new Beep Beep, track days, etc. They also already owned a house like 3X+ the size of ours that they bought several years back for $300K. They went bigger and to a nicer area, just very to me, but different strokes. As long as they are happy, He is a pretty conservative guy, so I'm sure they have planned out the financials and it won't be a problem. It would just feel like I was a slave to my house and family in that scenario to me

[D Griff]

I wonder this too. I assume that people are comfortable with WAY more debt than I am.

I honestly feel a little guilty buying a $40k civic even though it's well within comfort for our income/savings and it won't depreciate. And then there are people like my brother, who lives with my parents making ~$85k/year but leases a 2020 M4 and just bought a 2021 Crosstrek for a daily.

I still live in a pretty small apartment because buying here means at least doubling our monthly housing costs and that's a hard pill to swallow.

How old is he?

My sister and her husband and THREE kids are all moving back in with my parents this week. It is temporary, they are under contract on some mansion and need to see that through and get some reno done before moving in. It is very to me, they have moved in with my parents like three times, it is a huge burden with all of the kids and a destructive cat, and they always do it for some financial gain reason like "we're airBNBing out our house for a month because there's a golf tournament here and we can make $10K". Meanwhile my BIL makes like 5X the money my parents have ever made combined. It is fucking

I have two other friends my age (32) who recently moved back in with the parents. One dude is an engineering manager making six figs in Philly ( ), the other it's kind of understandable... he had moved down to FL with his wife, she cheated on him, divorce, etc. and he moved back up here and is sort of just getting on his feet. That, as a temporary solution is cool I guess, but I just can't imagine being OK with the moving back home thing unless you really were out of options.

I lived with mom and dad for like five months after college and paid them $400/month, which was the same as my rent after moving out back in 2012 or so.

[Huckleberry]

They're smarter than us. They work in software/finance/sales/consulting instead of making tangible products. Actually making things is for morans.

This is very true, and a harsh sobering reality for my shitty career path.

Planning a physical vehicle is immensely complex. But apparently, worthless experience compared to managing software and things that don't get built/exist in the physical world.

It's a shame that so many companies undervalue a person's ability to physically produce tangible products.

[Desertbreh]

Back to shopping crosstreks then.

Stay in your lane or pay $500 for an oil change I mean the answer is pretty clear

That or turn your barely depreciating Porsche into Range Rover type depreciation descent by daring to change your own oil. Dat drain plug touched by untermenschen.

[Huckleberry]

I honestly feel a little guilty buying a $40k civic even though it's well within comfort for our income/savings and it won't depreciate. And then there are people like my brother, who lives with my parents making ~$85k/year but leases a 2020 M4 and just bought a 2021 Crosstrek for a daily.

I still live in a pretty small apartment because buying here means at least doubling our monthly housing costs and that's a hard pill to swallow.

How old is he?

My sister and her husband and THREE kids are all moving back in with my parents this week. It is temporary, they are under contract on some mansion and need to see that through and get some reno done before moving in. It is very to me, they have moved in with my parents like three times, it is a huge burden with all of the kids and a destructive cat, and they always do it for some financial gain reason like "we're airBNBing out our house for a month because there's a golf tournament here and we can make $10K". Meanwhile my BIL makes like 5X the money my parents have ever made combined. It is fucking

I have two other friends my age (32) who recently moved back in with the parents. One dude is an engineering manager making six figs in Philly ( ), the other it's kind of understandable... he had moved down to FL with his wife, she cheated on him, divorce, etc. and he moved back up here and is sort of just getting on his feet. That, as a temporary solution is cool I guess, but I just can't imagine being OK with the moving back home thing unless you really were out of options.

I lived with mom and dad for like five months after college and paid them $400/month, which was the same as my rent after moving out back in 2012 or so.

Let me guess: absolutely none of that was paid to your parents for their troubles.

[Desertbreh]

I kind of feel like the ultimate trolling would be hitting the Porsche forums documenting your oil change on your Carrera S at Wal Mart and how much money you saved over dealer service.

[max225]

Going from a JL to Macan ?

Just keeping options open.

Right now, she really wants a Crosstrek. I'm trying to push for something a little more fun like a Countryman or something along the lines of Macan. I'm too poor for that though.

was the point of selling the “never driven “ JL then?!

[max225]

I kind of feel like the ultimate trolling would be hitting the Porsche forums documenting your oil change on your Carrera S at Wal Mart and how much money you saved over dealer service.

There are plenty of folks that do that.

First gen Caymen and boxsters are not hitting dealers at the same rate as a new 911 gt3.

Their owners do shit on the cheap. Plenty of evidence for that. And that’s before we go into 944 driven by college student territory

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Just keeping options open.

Right now, she really wants a Crosstrek. I'm trying to push for something a little more fun like a Countryman or something along the lines of Macan. I'm too poor for that though.

was the point of selling the “never driven “ JL then?!

We're not buying for as long as possible. Probably a year at least, hopefully longer. But what's the harm in looking around? Damn.

I know very little about this segment of vehicle, would like to have some options whittled down for when we do have to find something.

[max225]

was the point of selling the “never driven “ JL then?!

We're not buying for as long as possible. Probably a year at least, hopefully longer. But what's the harm in looking around? Damn.

I know very little about this segment of vehicle, would like to have some options whittled down for when we do have to find something.

Well you know I’m a big proponent of the Crosstranny. Imo it is the perfect all around vehicle with the 2.5 motor if you just needed a box that does it all. But most will find them “boring” and seppuku

[Desertbreh]

We're not buying for as long as possible. Probably a year at least, hopefully longer. But what's the harm in looking around? Damn.

I know very little about this segment of vehicle, would like to have some options whittled down for when we do have to find something.

Well you know I’m a big proponent of the Crosstranny. Imo it is the perfect all around vehicle with the 2.5 motor if you just needed a box that does it all. But most will find them “boring” and seppuku

Best car ever.

[max225]

Well you know I’m a big proponent of the Crosstranny. Imo it is the perfect all around vehicle with the 2.5 motor if you just needed a box that does it all. But most will find them “boring” and seppuku

Best car ever.

FTFY

[HerrBerlin]

I honestly feel a little guilty buying a $40k civic even though it's well within comfort for our income/savings and it won't depreciate. And then there are people like my brother, who lives with my parents making ~$85k/year but leases a 2020 M4 and just bought a 2021 Crosstrek for a daily.

I still live in a pretty small apartment because buying here means at least doubling our monthly housing costs and that's a hard pill to swallow.

How old is he?

My sister and her husband and THREE kids are all moving back in with my parents this week. It is temporary, they are under contract on some mansion and need to see that through and get some reno done before moving in. It is very to me, they have moved in with my parents like three times, it is a huge burden with all of the kids and a destructive cat, and they always do it for some financial gain reason like "we're airBNBing out our house for a month because there's a golf tournament here and we can make $10K". Meanwhile my BIL makes like 5X the money my parents have ever made combined. It is fucking

I have two other friends my age (32) who recently moved back in with the parents. One dude is an engineering manager making six figs in Philly ( ), the other it's kind of understandable... he had moved down to FL with his wife, she cheated on him, divorce, etc. and he moved back up here and is sort of just getting on his feet. That, as a temporary solution is cool I guess, but I just can't imagine being OK with the moving back home thing unless you really were out of options.

I lived with mom and dad for like five months after college and paid them $400/month, which was the same as my rent after moving out back in 2012 or so.

He's 24 so still pretty young. Different priorities for sure, as I wouldn't and didn't make the same choices as him.

And yikes, talk about taking advantage

[Desertbreh]

Best car ever.

FTFY

The car for people who utterly despise cars. High enough to avoid most obstacles, low enough to avoid having real fun. Powerful enough to avoid getting killed, gutless enough to crush all joy from the driving experience. Just fill it with boogers, pet dander and dead skin and drive that Seppuku Cruiser off into the sunset.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

We're not buying for as long as possible. Probably a year at least, hopefully longer. But what's the harm in looking around? Damn.

I know very little about this segment of vehicle, would like to have some options whittled down for when we do have to find something.

Well you know I’m a big proponent of the Crosstranny. Imo it is the perfect all around vehicle with the 2.5 motor if you just needed a box that does it all. But most will find them “boring” and seppuku

The local has multiple 2021 Sports for $28k. 2.5 and they're equipped like a $60k JL. It's the perfect car for the wife where we live, and I honestly think it looks pretty Shouldn't depreciate much at all, so it seems like a strong option.

[troyguitar]

I mean if I "only" made $85k in Seattle I'd have to live with my parents too... Hopefully they'd leave the house to me eventually.

They live in SoCal, but the cost of living is basically the same.

$85k in Seattle would honesly be okay assuming no children and never owning property. You wouldn't live lavishly, but you'd get by just fine and have some spending money.

Ugh, I guess that's the other thing that people do: plan on working/spending/renting/yoloing until they die. We're hoping to retire in this place while we're still able to walk around town without using a cane.

[HerrBerlin]

Well you know I’m a big proponent of the Crosstranny. Imo it is the perfect all around vehicle with the 2.5 motor if you just needed a box that does it all. But most will find them “boring” and seppuku

The local has multiple 2021 Sports for $28k. 2.5 and they're equipped like a $60k JL. It's the perfect car for the wife where we live, and I honestly think it looks pretty Shouldn't depreciate much at all, so it seems like a strong option.

At least they're not dangerously slow with the 2.5.

[HerrBerlin]

They live in SoCal, but the cost of living is basically the same.

$85k in Seattle would honesly be okay assuming no children and never owning property. You wouldn't live lavishly, but you'd get by just fine and have some spending money.

Ugh, I guess that's the other thing that people do: plan on working/spending/renting/yoloing until they die. We're hoping to retire in this place while we're still able to walk around town without using a cane.

No thanks, that's not for me (except the renting part for now).

[D Griff]

We're not buying for as long as possible. Probably a year at least, hopefully longer. But what's the harm in looking around? Damn.

I know very little about this segment of vehicle, would like to have some options whittled down for when we do have to find something.

Well you know I’m a big proponent of the Crosstranny. Imo it is the perfect all around vehicle with the 2.5 motor if you just needed a box that does it all. But most will find them “boring” and seppuku

I lamented many times on our cross country trip a few months ago that a CrossTrek would have been able to do all of the trails and stuff just fine, be way cheaper, and more enjoyable on the highway. All of that out of the way, I'm still with the Desert Man, CrossTrek = Instant Seppuku.