Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!

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troyguitar
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Melon wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:57 pm You also have places to actually park, no?

I have a 2 car tandem driveway. No garage, no street parking, nothing but my single spot where my car is always parked in behind the wife's car.
It's off the street doe.
If you're worried about the elements snag a car cover.
Why pay $500/mo to have something sitting unusable for 6-9 months a year?
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wap
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Why is it unusable 6-9 months a year?
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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Melon
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troyguitar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:05 pm
Melon wrote:
It's off the street doe.
If you're worried about the elements snag a car cover.
Why pay $500/mo to have something sitting unusable for 6-9 months a year?
Throw some snow tires on there and be a drift-o-potamus .
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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troyguitar
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Melon wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:05 pm Why pay $500/mo to have something sitting unusable for 6-9 months a year?
Throw some snow tires on there and be a drift-o-potamus .
That's how I ended up with a 1500 mile car that's as rusty as a 150000 mile car in the Carolinas.
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Melon
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troyguitar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:09 pm
Melon wrote:
Throw some snow tires on there and be a drift-o-potamus .
That's how I ended up with a 1500 mile car that's as rusty as a 150000 mile car in the Carolinas.
Living in an area of the country where mechanical failure is the death of a car, and not rust, I'm not sure which is worse. I've seen so many cars catch on fire, it's ridiculous.
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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troyguitar
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wap wrote:Why is it unusable 6-9 months a year?
:salt:
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troyguitar
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Melon wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:09 pm That's how I ended up with a 1500 mile car that's as rusty as a 150000 mile car in the Carolinas.
Living in an area of the country where mechanical failure is the death of a car, and not rust, I'm not sure which is worse. I've seen so many cars catch on fire, it's ridiculous.
Doesn't insurance cover fires? Rust is not covered. You are simply expected to buy a new car at your own expense.
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Don't they have places with warm water sprayers where you can wash off the under carriage? Can't you apply some rust proofing, in the form of something? (not zeibart, or other bullshit like that)

People don't just use wooden carriages in the winter up there, people drive steel cars, and properly maintained and cleaned, a new car shouldn't have major issues.

I mean, if you don't enjoy the car anymore by all means sell it, you do you but, if you do enjoy it, and do like having it, find a work around. Life, uh, finds a way.
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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troyguitar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:15 pm
Melon wrote:
Living in an area of the country where mechanical failure is the death of a car, and not rust, I'm not sure which is worse. I've seen so many cars catch on fire, it's ridiculous.
Doesn't insurance cover fires? Rust is not covered. You are simply expected to buy a new car at your own expense.
Not if you only carry liability, which judging by the cars that you see, probably don't.
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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troyguitar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:13 pm
wap wrote:Why is it unusable 6-9 months a year?
:salt:
:rolleyes:
Literally 10's of millions of people drive their cars 12 months/year in the plenty of states that salt their roads in the winter and they don't all disintegrate. My last 4 cars were over 10 years old when I got rid of them and they were not rust buckets. My old Mk4 is 21 years old now and is still being DD'd year round. And it's not just VW's. Wife's old 11 yo Aura is being DD'd by her folks. Still looks fine.
Sure, they probably have some rust underneath but :whocares: after that many years.

It takes a LONG time to ruin a modern car with current rust prevention measures. Go out and enjoy it.
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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Melon wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:22 pm Don't they have places with warm water sprayers where you can wash off the under carriage? Can't you apply some rust proofing, in the form of something? (not zeibart, or other bullshit like that)

People don't just use wooden carriages in the winter up there, people drive steel cars, and properly maintained and cleaned, a new car shouldn't have major issues.

I mean, if you don't enjoy the car anymore by all means sell it, you do you but, if you do enjoy it, and do like having it, find a work around. Life, uh, finds a way.
:dat:
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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troyguitar
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Melon wrote:Don't they have places with warm water sprayers where you can wash off the under carriage? Can't you apply some rust proofing, in the form of something? (not zeibart, or other bullshit like that)

People don't just use wooden carriages in the winter up there, people drive steel cars, and properly maintained and cleaned, a new car shouldn't have major issues.

I mean, if you don't enjoy the car anymore by all means sell it, you do you but, if you do enjoy it, and do like having it, find a work around. Life, uh, finds a way.
I don't think I have seen anything more than ~5 years old without visible rust damage being used as a daily driver. Most cars (which are usually trucks, not cars) have rusty rear fenders at a bare minimum.

I don't know anyone who thinks of a car (that's driven outside of fair summer weather) as anything more than a toaster.
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troyguitar
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The work around is to move to fucking California or be OK with pissing away money on a rusty piece of shit. I can't do either of those things.
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troyguitar
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wap wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:13 pm :salt:
:rolleyes:
Literally 10's of millions of people drive their cars 12 months/year in the plenty of states that salt their roads in the winter and they don't all disintegrate. My last 4 cars were over 10 years old when I got rid of them and they were not rust buckets. My old Mk4 is 21 years old now and is still being DD'd year round. And it's not just VW's. Wife's old 11 yo Aura is being DD'd by her folks. Still looks fine.
Sure, they probably have some rust underneath but :whocares: after that many years.

It takes a LONG time to ruin a modern car with current rust prevention measures. Go out and enjoy it.
Have you ever done work on your own vehicles? Tell me again that rust doesn't matter when you can't get the fucking bolts loose to do anything.
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I have my ways.
*Bwoooosh* Alabama blue wrench.

Nah, rust sucks, the grey Dakota was not bad for her age, but had suffered at the hand of corrosion. Fortunately the driver's side of the engine bay was fine due to a bad valve cover gasket leak. Rust-proofed the suspension, engine block and frame rails quite nicely.
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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wap
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troyguitar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:35 pm
wap wrote: :rolleyes:
Literally 10's of millions of people drive their cars 12 months/year in the plenty of states that salt their roads in the winter and they don't all disintegrate. My last 4 cars were over 10 years old when I got rid of them and they were not rust buckets. My old Mk4 is 21 years old now and is still being DD'd year round. And it's not just VW's. Wife's old 11 yo Aura is being DD'd by her folks. Still looks fine.
Sure, they probably have some rust underneath but :whocares: after that many years.

It takes a LONG time to ruin a modern car with current rust prevention measures. Go out and enjoy it.
Have you ever done work on your own vehicles? Tell me again that rust doesn't matter when you can't get the fucking bolts loose to do anything.
You forget I pulled and rebuilt the engine in my Beetle. I also replaced the clutch and the shocks and fuck knows what else I can't remember, all when the car was 15 years old with VERY primitive rust prevention, which was basically the factory painting the undersides of the fenders inside the door shells. I also did my own oil changes in my Scirocco and replaced a trans mount, when it was at least middle age. Prior to that I worked on my brother's then 7 year old FIAT, which is probably the only car I can think of that eventually developed a lot of rust, besides me Beetle after I sold it. Sometimes it's a hassle, but it's doable.

Plus, how much work do think you need to do on your new 86? You have no reason to get under it other than maybe oil changes.
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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Melon wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:38 pm I have my ways.
*Bwoooosh* Alabama blue wrench.

Nah, rust sucks, the grey Dakota was not bad for her age, but had suffered at the hand of corrosion. Fortunately the driver's side of the engine bay was fine due to a bad valve cover gasket leak. Rust-proofed the suspension, engine block and frame rails quite nicely.
:notbad:
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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troyguitar
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wap wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:35 pm Have you ever done work on your own vehicles? Tell me again that rust doesn't matter when you can't get the fucking bolts loose to do anything.
You forget I pulled and rebuilt the engine in my Beetle. I also replaced the clutch and the shocks and fuck knows what else I can't remember, all when the car was 15 years old with VERY primitive rust prevention, which was basically the factory painting the undersides of the fenders inside the door shells. I also did my own oil changes in my Scirocco and replaced a trans mount, when it was at least middle age. Prior to that I worked on my brother's then 7 year old FIAT, which is probably the only car I can think of that eventually developed a lot of rust, besides me Beetle after I sold it. Sometimes it's a hassle, but it's doable.

Plus, how much work do think you need to do on your new 86? You have no reason to get under it other than maybe oil changes.
I want to be able to change steering rack bushings and alignment settings and bleed brakes and stuff like that without issues for at least 5 more years. Otherwise why pay new car money?
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troyguitar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:53 pm
wap wrote:
You forget I pulled and rebuilt the engine in my Beetle. I also replaced the clutch and the shocks and fuck knows what else I can't remember, all when the car was 15 years old with VERY primitive rust prevention, which was basically the factory painting the undersides of the fenders inside the door shells. I also did my own oil changes in my Scirocco and replaced a trans mount, when it was at least middle age. Prior to that I worked on my brother's then 7 year old FIAT, which is probably the only car I can think of that eventually developed a lot of rust, besides me Beetle after I sold it. Sometimes it's a hassle, but it's doable.

Plus, how much work do think you need to do on your new 86? You have no reason to get under it other than maybe oil changes.
I want to be able to change steering rack bushings and alignment settings and bleed brakes and stuff like that without issues for at least 5 more years. Otherwise why pay new car money?
I can't imagine any of that won't be possible in the next 5 years.

You think carsin salt-using states just can't get worked on once they're 5 years old? I promise you there are many 10-15+ year old cars in my work parking lot that their :manuel: owners manage to maintain.
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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wap wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:53 pm I want to be able to change steering rack bushings and alignment settings and bleed brakes and stuff like that without issues for at least 5 more years. Otherwise why pay new car money?
I can't imagine any of that won't be possible in the next 5 years.

You think carsin salt-using states just can't get worked on once they're 5 years old? I promise you there are many 10-15+ year old cars in my work parking lot that their :manuel: owners manage to maintain.
I have a 6 year old car in my driveway that we bought new and it only lived in salt for 2 winters... It's already a major PITA to work on anything underneath and I think all 4 wheel bearings are due to be replaced from rust. Exhaust will be next year, if not this year.
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troyguitar wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:02 am
wap wrote:
I can't imagine any of that won't be possible in the next 5 years.

You think carsin salt-using states just can't get worked on once they're 5 years old? I promise you there are many 10-15+ year old cars in my work parking lot that their :manuel: owners manage to maintain.
I have a 6 year old car in my driveway that we bought new and it only lived in salt for 2 winters... It's already a major PITA to work on anything underneath and I think all 4 wheel bearings are due to be replaced from rust. Exhaust will be next year, if not this year.
That is curious about your Mazduh. I think they once had a bad rep for shitty rust prevention. SAD!
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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wap wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:02 am I have a 6 year old car in my driveway that we bought new and it only lived in salt for 2 winters... It's already a major PITA to work on anything underneath and I think all 4 wheel bearings are due to be replaced from rust. Exhaust will be next year, if not this year.
That is curious about your Mazduh. I think they once had a bad rep for shitty rust prevention. SAD!
Pretty much everything I have owned during a winter has been rusty as fuck.

Reatta had a brake line rust out leaving me to baby it home with no brakes.

Allroad was unable to be aligned or to change the front shocks or axles due to rusty frozen bolts.

Vibe front and rear strut mounts had to be pounded/drilled out and replaced. Front sway bar end links had to be cut off and replaced. Rear hubs had to be torched/hammered/drilled out and replaced.

C5 frame, shocks, and exhaust all had major rust issues which would have been problematic if I kept the car.

S4 exhaust had to be cut off and replaced.

Mazderp3 brakes are so rusty that they'll need full replacement soon with less than 10k miles on the pads/rotors.

86 isn't far behind the mazda. 2000 miles and the whole exhaust/brakes/suspension look like fucking garbage.
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4zilch
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Oddly enough the Fiesta seems to be fairing well after 4.5 years of living in rusttopia.
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We use plenty of salt here and all but one of our cars have been fine. Both of my Grand Prixs has nothing more than some really minor surface rust even out to 13 years old for my second one. The RDX looked perfect at 7 years, same for my MK6 at 6.5 years and my MK7 at 4 now. The ‘05 Mazda 3 had rust forming in the rear fenders like all the rest of them, though.
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coogles wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:39 am We use plenty of salt here and all but one of our cars have been fine. Both of my Grand Prixs has nothing more than some really minor surface rust even out to 13 years old for my second one. The RDX looked perfect at 7 years, same for my MK6 at 6.5 years and my MK7 at 4 now. The ‘05 Mazda 3 had rust forming in the rear fenders like all the rest of them, though.
Same, but I owned a Mazda Protege and those cars don't fair well with salt at all. VW is good if you leave the bolts alone and leave good enough as it is. The only issue I see with them is in the bottom front quarter panels, without mudflaps dirt builds up in that spot. I wash mine out and the car wears Rallyarmour flaps, :aintcare:

With a good car you can typically drive for 10 years and accept that the car is trashed after that.
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