Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!

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razr390 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:40 am The problem is if you do take the 911 (even an AWD heavy Turbo S) it’ll perform well at the strip but also be a fucking amazing car on the twisties.

I’ve driven my friend’s 991.1 Club Coupe (some limited edition that’s basically a GTS). It was, to this date, one of the best driving experiences I’ve had.


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Yeah but :whocares: You could say the same about a Corvette. A really expensive performance car should be fast and it is.
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max225 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:44 am You guys been watching oil prices since the election... my doomed oil stock is up 40% and were approaching $4 a gallon here also... I think they will tax us on gas in the next 3.5 years until it forces people to switch into the e cars
Hi Max, I'm watching it here too. We are already taxed to the moon with plethora of taxes that layer one upon another, and I'm expecting crazy high pump costs this summer.

I've been chirping the Paris accord treaty since its inception, and basically see it as a tax grab. Maybe I not smart enough to see understand it better, :thanksobama:
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Detroit wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:06 am
max225 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:44 am You guys been watching oil prices since the election... my doomed oil stock is up 40% and were approaching $4 a gallon here also... I think they will tax us on gas in the next 3.5 years until it forces people to switch into the e cars
Yea, oil on the rise...hard to say if it's election or demand. People are also driving more and further than they have possibly since the beginning of 2020, so it's hard to say what precisely is driving the price up. Production could be down a bit too? Probably a mix of things

Increased gas tax has been viewed as political suicide for years, but I think it's the only real lever left to pull to force people to adopt EVs. The tax credits are expiring for most OEMs within the next few years so there needs to be some other financial incentive for people to go EV. Gas tax would do it.
When I said “tax” I should have clarified. Oil prices are not based on demand because it is price inelastic as proven again and again. It’ll take 5-10 years to see a notable dip in demand if the prices were to spike.

Things like shutting down keystone etc I see as a “tax” because it directly affects prices due to government involvement
Last edited by max225 on Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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With the Gulf and other areas down south frozen solid, I'd think that would have an effect on prices, too.
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wap wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:20 am With the Gulf and other areas down south frozen solid, I'd think that would have an effect on prices, too.
Yea sure that’s back to the pre trump years of “instability in the Middle East are driving prices up” array of excuses. Oil was the Bitcoin of the early 00s
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max225 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:20 am
Detroit wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:06 am
Yea, oil on the rise...hard to say if it's election or demand. People are also driving more and further than they have possibly since the beginning of 2020, so it's hard to say what precisely is driving the price up. Production could be down a bit too? Probably a mix of things

Increased gas tax has been viewed as political suicide for years, but I think it's the only real lever left to pull to force people to adopt EVs. The tax credits are expiring for most OEMs within the next few years so there needs to be some other financial incentive for people to go EV. Gas tax would do it.
When I said “tax” I should have clarified. Oil prices are not based on demand because it is price inelastic as proven again and again. It’ll take 5-10 years to see a notable dip in demand if the prices were to spike.

Things like shutting down keystone etc I see as a “tax” because it directly affects prices due to government involvement
Good analysis, and yes "tax" due to political/environmental factors limiting supply is probably the most likely here.
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wap wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:20 am With the Gulf and other areas down south frozen solid, I'd think that would have an effect on prices, too.
It could a bit, but production has been down for a while now. Frozen oil hasn't been frozen enough to drive any big change in supply enough to change prices IMO.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:08 am
razr390 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:40 am The problem is if you do take the 911 (even an AWD heavy Turbo S) it’ll perform well at the strip but also be a fucking amazing car on the twisties.

I’ve driven my friend’s 991.1 Club Coupe (some limited edition that’s basically a GTS). It was, to this date, one of the best driving experiences I’ve had.


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Yeah but :whocares: You could say the same about a Corvette. A really expensive performance car should be fast and it is.
It wasn’t even the speed doe. It was just how it felt to drive. The 911 is :muah:
:doughnut: :narc: :doughnut:
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razr390 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:22 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:08 am

Yeah but :whocares: You could say the same about a Corvette. A really expensive performance car should be fast and it is.
It wasn’t even the speed doe. It was just how it felt to drive. The 911 is :muah:
Well, sure. It is a six figure sports car, no one is debating it's amazing. It is obviously gonna mop the floor with a :mk6: .
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D Griff wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:08 am
razr390 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:40 am The problem is if you do take the 911 (even an AWD heavy Turbo S) it’ll perform well at the strip but also be a fucking amazing car on the twisties.

I’ve driven my friend’s 991.1 Club Coupe (some limited edition that’s basically a GTS). It was, to this date, one of the best driving experiences I’ve had.


Image
Yeah but :whocares: You could say the same about a Corvette. A really expensive performance car should be fast and it is.
Man the C8 may deserve some sort of second look. It is likely the last N/A/gasoline corvette ever.
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max225 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:27 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:08 am

Yeah but :whocares: You could say the same about a Corvette. A really expensive performance car should be fast and it is.
Man the C8 may deserve some sort of second look. It is likely the last N/A/gasoline corvette ever.
It is a pretty amazing thing for the money. It's "just a Corvette". I'm sure in a year or two they will be a dime a dozen, but the mid engine really takes the already huge performance to the next level.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:54 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Man the C8 may deserve some sort of second look. It is likely the last N/A/gasoline corvette ever.
It is a pretty amazing thing for the money. It's "just a Corvette". I'm sure in a year or two they will be a dime a dozen, but the mid engine really takes the already huge performance to the next level.
Sort of... but they seem to have a lot of production issues. And at least out here they are rare... then again corvettes are not THAT common here either because dOmeStiC
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D Griff wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:54 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Man the C8 may deserve some sort of second look. It is likely the last N/A/gasoline corvette ever.
It is a pretty amazing thing for the money. It's "just a Corvette". I'm sure in a year or two they will be a dime a dozen, but the mid engine really takes the already huge performance to the next level.
The C8 handles base C7 power really well. If it depreciates radically at it's 10 year mark I'll probably be in a place to consider one. It is an automatic :doe: , and I enjoyed rowing my C6 gears even though they weren't exactly considered that great.

The 996 I drove on track last fall was a :manuel: AWD and I was really amazed with how nice it was to drive. It just felt like I was a better driver then I really am, so I kind see what Rudy is getting at.. They are stupidly capable machines. Fled states that the 997.2 is the sweet spot for reliable Porsche ownership, but that's a lot of cash (guessing over $80k). I wish that Eric's GS was accessible to me, but I'm nowhere near being able to treat myself to said toy - price is right. That car is likely going to hold it's value and be "free" to own for the next five years. Dang, I want, might be too nice to track doe. :sad:
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D Griff wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:25 pm
razr390 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:22 pm
It wasn’t even the speed doe. It was just how it felt to drive. The 911 is :muah:
Well, sure. It is a six figure sports car, no one is debating it's amazing. It is obviously gonna mop the floor with a :mk6: .
:howdareu:
:wap: Where are these mangos?
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Tarspin wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:10 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:54 pm

It is a pretty amazing thing for the money. It's "just a Corvette". I'm sure in a year or two they will be a dime a dozen, but the mid engine really takes the already huge performance to the next level.
The C8 handles base C7 power really well. If it depreciates radically at it's 10 year mark I'll probably be in a place to consider one. It is an automatic :doe: , and I enjoyed rowing my C6 gears even though they weren't exactly considered that great.

The 996 I drove on track last fall was a :manuel: AWD and I was really amazed with how nice it was to drive. It just felt like I was a better driver then I really am, so I kind see what Rudy is getting at.. They are stupidly capable machines. Fled states that the 997.2 is the sweet spot for reliable Porsche ownership, but that's a lot of cash (guessing over $80k). I wish that Eric's GS was accessible to me, but I'm nowhere near being able to treat myself to said toy - price is right. That car is likely going to hold it's value and be "free" to own for the next five years. Dang, I want, might be too nice to track doe. :sad:
As long as I continue to treat it like a Rolex and pull it out of the drawer to wear every 3 weeks. I'm beginning to realize that I need to develop some legitimate hobbies. My child has been successfully launched. I've got two pieces of real estate paid for (almost). Fortunately, there is an excellent surf break in front of one of them so I intend to become proficient on a surfboard. I plan to buy a better camera and start exploring both the U.S. and MX with photography in mind. If I can figure out a way to transfer the C6 into something that would enhance my life more than what is essentially a Sunday driver, I should consider it. It's still nice to have a few nice things though.
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wap wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:49 pm
D Griff wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:25 pm

Well, sure. It is a six figure sports car, no one is debating it's amazing. It is obviously gonna mop the floor with a :mk6: .
:howdareu:
:dat:

Stage 3 t00n with upgraded clutch and prepped surface + slicks can take a Veyron. There is no merit to this statement. :dislike:
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Tarspin wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:54 pm
wap wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:49 pm

:howdareu:
:dat:

Stock + slicks can take a Veyron. There is no merit to this statement. :dislike:
:dat:
:wap: Where are these mangos?
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Desertbreh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:52 pm
Tarspin wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:10 pm

The C8 handles base C7 power really well. If it depreciates radically at it's 10 year mark I'll probably be in a place to consider one. It is an automatic :doe: , and I enjoyed rowing my C6 gears even though they weren't exactly considered that great.

The 996 I drove on track last fall was a :manuel: AWD and I was really amazed with how nice it was to drive. It just felt like I was a better driver then I really am, so I kind see what Rudy is getting at.. They are stupidly capable machines. Fled states that the 997.2 is the sweet spot for reliable Porsche ownership, but that's a lot of cash (guessing over $80k). I wish that Eric's GS was accessible to me, but I'm nowhere near being able to treat myself to said toy - price is right. That car is likely going to hold it's value and be "free" to own for the next five years. Dang, I want, might be too nice to track doe. :sad:
As long as I continue to treat it like a Rolex and pull it out of the drawer to wear every 3 weeks. I'm beginning to realize that I need to develop some legitimate hobbies. My child has been successfully launched. I've got two pieces of real estate paid for (almost). Fortunately, there is an excellent surf break in front of one of them so I intend to become proficient on a surfboard. I plan to buy a better camera and start exploring both the U.S. and MX with photography in mind. If I can figure out a way to transfer the C6 into something that would enhance my life more than what is essentially a Sunday driver, I should consider it. It's still nice to have a few nice things though.
Have you surfed before? It is pretty tough, I bet learning would be 5/7 gratifying. Great low impact exercise as well.

I would off the C6 if I were you. I guess it's not costing a ton to hang onto it, but let someone who will use it more drive it. It's never going to be worth a ton because of the low miles/great condition, it's still a Corvette. If you're not going to explore CA's mountain roads in it or take it to track days or anything like that, you're better suited with the silver Mercedes :doit:
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D Griff wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:59 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:52 pm

As long as I continue to treat it like a Rolex and pull it out of the drawer to wear every 3 weeks. I'm beginning to realize that I need to develop some legitimate hobbies. My child has been successfully launched. I've got two pieces of real estate paid for (almost). Fortunately, there is an excellent surf break in front of one of them so I intend to become proficient on a surfboard. I plan to buy a better camera and start exploring both the U.S. and MX with photography in mind. If I can figure out a way to transfer the C6 into something that would enhance my life more than what is essentially a Sunday driver, I should consider it. It's still nice to have a few nice things though.
Have you surfed before? It is pretty tough, I bet learning would be 5/7 gratifying. Great low impact exercise as well.

I would off the C6 if I were you. I guess it's not costing a ton to hang onto it, but let someone who will use it more drive it. It's never going to be worth a ton because of the low miles/great condition, it's still a Corvette. If you're not going to explore CA's mountain roads in it or take it to track days or anything like that, you're better suited with the silver Mercedes :doit:
:dat:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:59 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:52 pm

As long as I continue to treat it like a Rolex and pull it out of the drawer to wear every 3 weeks. I'm beginning to realize that I need to develop some legitimate hobbies. My child has been successfully launched. I've got two pieces of real estate paid for (almost). Fortunately, there is an excellent surf break in front of one of them so I intend to become proficient on a surfboard. I plan to buy a better camera and start exploring both the U.S. and MX with photography in mind. If I can figure out a way to transfer the C6 into something that would enhance my life more than what is essentially a Sunday driver, I should consider it. It's still nice to have a few nice things though.
Have you surfed before? It is pretty tough, I bet learning would be 5/7 gratifying. Great low impact exercise as well.

I would off the C6 if I were you. I guess it's not costing a ton to hang onto it, but let someone who will use it more drive it. It's never going to be worth a ton because of the low miles/great condition, it's still a Corvette. If you're not going to explore CA's mountain roads in it or take it to track days or anything like that, you're better suited with the silver Mercedes :doit:
I have not. When I was younger I was a proficient slalom skier. I doubt that has much carryover other than both occurring on water. But I have realized that I have front door surfing so I'm going to figure it out. There are usually at least 10-20 people in the water errday. Wette costs are just insurance and depreciation.
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Desertbreh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:52 pm
Tarspin wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:10 pm

The C8 handles base C7 power really well. If it depreciates radically at it's 10 year mark I'll probably be in a place to consider one. It is an automatic :doe: , and I enjoyed rowing my C6 gears even though they weren't exactly considered that great.

The 996 I drove on track last fall was a :manuel: AWD and I was really amazed with how nice it was to drive. It just felt like I was a better driver then I really am, so I kind see what Rudy is getting at.. They are stupidly capable machines. Fled states that the 997.2 is the sweet spot for reliable Porsche ownership, but that's a lot of cash (guessing over $80k). I wish that Eric's GS was accessible to me, but I'm nowhere near being able to treat myself to said toy - price is right. That car is likely going to hold it's value and be "free" to own for the next five years. Dang, I want, might be too nice to track doe. :sad:
As long as I continue to treat it like a Rolex and pull it out of the drawer to wear every 3 weeks. I'm beginning to realize that I need to develop some legitimate hobbies. My child has been successfully launched. I've got two pieces of real estate paid for (almost). Fortunately, there is an excellent surf break in front of one of them so I intend to become proficient on a surfboard. I plan to buy a better camera and start exploring both the U.S. and MX with photography in mind. If I can figure out a way to transfer the C6 into something that would enhance my life more than what is essentially a Sunday driver, I should consider it. It's still nice to have a few nice things though.
Motorcycle :bread:
Melon wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:41 pm Don't discuss things you want on here.

This is only a place for 100% facts.
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Desertbreh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:52 pm
Tarspin wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:10 pm

The C8 handles base C7 power really well. If it depreciates radically at it's 10 year mark I'll probably be in a place to consider one. It is an automatic :doe: , and I enjoyed rowing my C6 gears even though they weren't exactly considered that great.

The 996 I drove on track last fall was a :manuel: AWD and I was really amazed with how nice it was to drive. It just felt like I was a better driver then I really am, so I kind see what Rudy is getting at.. They are stupidly capable machines. Fled states that the 997.2 is the sweet spot for reliable Porsche ownership, but that's a lot of cash (guessing over $80k). I wish that Eric's GS was accessible to me, but I'm nowhere near being able to treat myself to said toy - price is right. That car is likely going to hold it's value and be "free" to own for the next five years. Dang, I want, might be too nice to track doe. :sad:
As long as I continue to treat it like a Rolex and pull it out of the drawer to wear every 3 weeks. I'm beginning to realize that I need to develop some legitimate hobbies. My child has been successfully launched. I've got two pieces of real estate paid for (almost). Fortunately, there is an excellent surf break in front of one of them so I intend to become proficient on a surfboard. I plan to buy a better camera and start exploring both the U.S. and MX with photography in mind. If I can figure out a way to transfer the C6 into something that would enhance my life more than what is essentially a Sunday driver, I should consider it. It's still nice to have a few nice things though.
I sold mine to use as a piece down-payment on property 2, and don't regret it most days. I like your surf board/lessons idea, and deep sea fishing would be on my short list in MX.


I'm kind of into paddle boards right now, they are good lake things that bring a new experience and a fun way to exercise.

These look easy enough to transport:
https://www.amazon.ca/iROCKER-Nautical- ... cahydra-20

Image
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Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:05 am
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:52 pm

As long as I continue to treat it like a Rolex and pull it out of the drawer to wear every 3 weeks. I'm beginning to realize that I need to develop some legitimate hobbies. My child has been successfully launched. I've got two pieces of real estate paid for (almost). Fortunately, there is an excellent surf break in front of one of them so I intend to become proficient on a surfboard. I plan to buy a better camera and start exploring both the U.S. and MX with photography in mind. If I can figure out a way to transfer the C6 into something that would enhance my life more than what is essentially a Sunday driver, I should consider it. It's still nice to have a few nice things though.
I sold mine to use as a piece down-payment on property 2, and don't regret it most days. I like your surf board/lessons idea, and deep sea fishing would be on my short list in MX.


I'm kind of into paddle boards right now, they are good lake things that bring a new experience and a fun way to exercise.

These look easy enough to transport:
https://www.amazon.ca/iROCKER-Nautical- ... cahydra-20

Image
:notbad:

While we're talking about alternative ways to spend money, toss in kayaking and hiking.
Melon wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:41 pm Don't discuss things you want on here.

This is only a place for 100% facts.
...doesn’t argue cars on a political forum
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Tarspin wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:05 am
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:52 pm

As long as I continue to treat it like a Rolex and pull it out of the drawer to wear every 3 weeks. I'm beginning to realize that I need to develop some legitimate hobbies. My child has been successfully launched. I've got two pieces of real estate paid for (almost). Fortunately, there is an excellent surf break in front of one of them so I intend to become proficient on a surfboard. I plan to buy a better camera and start exploring both the U.S. and MX with photography in mind. If I can figure out a way to transfer the C6 into something that would enhance my life more than what is essentially a Sunday driver, I should consider it. It's still nice to have a few nice things though.
I sold mine to use as a piece down-payment on property 2, and don't regret it most days. I like your surf board/lessons idea, and deep sea fishing would be on my short list in MX.


I'm kind of into paddle boards right now, they are good lake things that bring a new experience and a fun way to exercise.

These look easy enough to transport:
https://www.amazon.ca/iROCKER-Nautical- ... cahydra-20

Image
:notbad:

FWIW we bought inflatable kayaks a couple of years ago and they are 4/7. Not quite as good as a nice real kayak, but surprisingly better than you would expect. Great for those of us with small homes/lack of storage/no :truk: and also easy on the budget if you're just looking to try out the "sport". I assume the SUPs are similar.
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We're debating SUPs, but with kayaks it's kind of just spending money to spend money. I know SUPs are a better core workout, but meh.

They would be easier to transport than the kayaks :doe:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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